Stuie Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Still reading about all this stuff... but just saying Mya Pipes and Tangiers....yeah I am good. HAHA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustafabey Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Rani, Our whole outlook and understanding of the Middle East and Islam is flawed. That view began with the crusades and continued on into the colonial period when Britain,Russia, and France gobbled up most of the Middle East and began to impose European morals on the populace.Colonialism and its successor imperialism turned the populations of the Middle East into second class citizens mired in satanic belief system.Even Middle eastern scholarship has been classified as Orientalism. The great Palestinian/American theorist Edward Said contended that Orientalist scholarship was and continues to be inextricably tied to the societies that produced it, making much of the work inherently politicized, servile to power, and therefore suspect.One only has to look at our recent discussion on the Islamic center in New York City, the infamous "ground zero" victory mosque and the Quran burning idiot in Florida to realize how little Americans understand about Islam. I recall in that discussion you mentioned that Imam Abdul Rauf was a Sufi. Sufi's base their relationship with God, not on worship,obedience, violence,but on love. Does America know Islam celebrates divine love? We list on our inventory of terrorist groups Hamas, Hizballah and the Muslim Brotherhood. Do people have any idea how much these organizations are involved in providing social services,health care and education to the people that the likes of Ben Ali, Mubarak and others oppress? If a new Middle East emerges from the ashes of this revolution,let us hope that the aspects of Islam that stress compassion,service(that too is jihad) and love prevail. Forgive me an anecdote. Back in the 70's I lived in Tunisia for sometime. There was a habit, in the evenings, for people to buy from street vendors(mostly kids) bundles of jasmine flower arranged into bouquet. The whole city smelled of jasmine! Everyone, even the beggars had their jasmine bouquet.And in Tunisia they called this revolution the Jasmine Revolution and I've heard the term in Egypt. We may see a total restructuring of the Middle East, we may see anarchy, we may see a military take over, but no matter,probably things will be very different when the smoke and jasmine fragrance clears. Its something no intelligence agency,even the much feared Mossad could predict. Of course,our first priority is going to be our interests which are Israel and oil and I'm afraid that balance is going to be hard to maintain. The Egyptians, Tunisians, etc have heard our ceaseless rhetoric about democracy. Look at al Jazeera English TV or online and read how the Arab media constantly criticizes America for its hypocrisy. I know there are too many variables, too many special interests and too much stupidity in our government,but it sure would be nice to hear the voice of "land of the free" come out and support these brave people. [img]http://0.tqn.com/d/goafrica/1/0/X/I/IMG_1662.JPG[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustafabey Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Hope.... it seems the opposition,including the Muslim Brotherhood has delegated Mohammed al Baradei to negotiate with government. Mubarak seems too be holed up at the Sinai resort of Sharm al Shaykh guarded by army troops, while bedouin tribes are taking over police barracks in the Sinai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustafabey Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Some voices "Hosni Mubarak,Omar Suleiman, both of you are agents of the Americans" Protesters in Tahrir square "It is loud and clear from everybody in Egypt that Mubarak has to leave today," Mohamed Elbaradei "Your policy right now is a failed policy, is a policy that is lagging behind, is a policy that is ... having the effect here in Egypt that you are losing whatever (is) left of credibility.People need to see that you not only talk the talk, but walk the walk, and people need to understand and believe that you really seriously take democracy, rule of law, freedoms seriously. And to say we have a tight rope that -- and between the people and the dictator, to say that we are asking a dictator who's been in power for 30 years to implement democracy is an oxymoron, frankly," Mohamed Elbaradei regarding US policy "The U.S. is neither on Mubarak's side or the protesters' side but that the U.S. is on the side of the Egyptian people" Hillary Clinton Well it looks like Hillary has been into some of that Kool Aid we talk about. How can anybody possibly believe a statement like that,perhaps Hillary can see Egypt from her house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rani Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 [quote name='mustafabey' timestamp='1296410740' post='496185'] Some voices "Hosni Mubarak,Omar Suleiman, both of you are agents of the Americans" Protesters in Tahrir square "It is loud and clear from everybody in Egypt that Mubarak has to leave today," Mohamed Elbaradei "Your policy right now is a failed policy, is a policy that is lagging behind, is a policy that is ... having the effect here in Egypt that you are losing whatever (is) left of credibility.People need to see that you not only talk the talk, but walk the walk, and people need to understand and believe that you really seriously take democracy, rule of law, freedoms seriously. And to say we have a tight rope that -- and between the people and the dictator, to say that we are asking a dictator who's been in power for 30 years to implement democracy is an oxymoron, frankly," Mohamed Elbaradei regarding US policy "The U.S. is neither on Mubarak's side or the protesters' side but that the U.S. is on the side of the Egyptian people" Hillary Clinton Well it looks like Hillary has been into some of that Kool Aid we talk about. How can anybody possibly believe a statement like that,perhaps Hillary can see Egypt from her house. [/quote] I actually get what she's saying. Because we shouldn't be coming out in favor of one side or the other, but supporting the Egyptian people who have the right to decide what they want for themselves and make it happen. We've too often taken responsibility to establish "democracy" like it's some religious dogma or something. But when you establish what you think is right, then you've taken away all the freedom of choice from the people themselves. And they should have as much right to choose fascism, or communism, or dictatorship as they do Western style democracy. IT HAS TO BE THEIR CHOICE. And if we take that choice from them, even if we act as some kind of benevolent protectors, then we're wrong. Completely and totally wrong. Because it won't be accepted as a "better" government, it will be simply another decision forced on them without their approval. And even if it turned out to be the best thing since sliced bread, they won't appreciate it from having the pride of earning it themselves. It will continue to be shaky and instable. The only reason the US has lasted this long, is that we as a people chose it for ourselves. Not because it's "better" or "more humane" or "free". WE made the choice, we fought for it, we created it and we defend it within our society That's why it's lasted even this long. Unless people themselves do the same thing we did 200 plus years ago, then it's just another forced regime, no matter what you label it. 'Rani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustafabey Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 The way I see it Rani,is that we have been on Mubarak's side for thirty years. A simple statement from Ms Clinton isn't going to change anything. We are afraid to bet on this horserace. Netanyahu,King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia and Mahmoud Abbas of thee Palestinian authority all support Mubarak. Obviously status quo means alot to these folks. The saving grace is Mohamed ElBaradei. He can pull off transition if the military accepts him. He is well versed in world politics, a Nobel Peace prize winner,knows the West,its strengths and weaknesses and knows the Arab world. He is a leader who has the respect of the Egyptian people AND the Muslim Brotherhood. They have chosen him to negotiate with the government. Mubarak is in hiding, his trousers wet and his family in Syria, so the power to reckon with is Omar Suleiman, the intelligence chief and hopefully he knows which side of the khoubz the hummus is on. If he were to appoint ElBaradei a head of a transition government and have the elections go on in September as planned, things will calm down, in Egypt, at least. But if they chase Mubarak out, then all the other little tin horn Saddam Hussein's in the Arab world are going to be pissing in their pants too. And I'd include Netanyahu in that group. After free elections, you are going to have to contend with some form of political Islam. But if these guys think this thru, this will be a very easy out for Egypt anyway. Meanwhile back home,greedy oil traders are going to push up the price of gas to line their own pockets,even though Egypt's oil reserves are miniscule. Tomorrow the stock market will go crazy, too Which is all our recession strapped country needs. we shall see what tomorrow brings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rani Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Mustafabey, I completely agrfee with yur assessment, though my knowledge is substantially less than yours. I have not paid close observation to the politics of the area since I traveled there off and on, maybe, hmmmmm, ten-twelve years ago. I also agree with you that one statement by the Sect. of State isn't going to fix anything. I do believe this particular administration is much less inclined to meddle because Obama seems (seems being the operative word) inclined towards self-determination for everyone. It may be entirely based on the fact that with his being black, this is something that he would have been aware of from childhood. So we shall wait and see I suppose. I am happy to see thought that the military have not been ordered to fire, and we're looking at protests and change rather than outright civil war with thousands of people dying in the streets. 'Rani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agunn1231 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 my family was talking about this stuff today, and i pulled up this thread on my phone to give them some other insight. I gotta say, i truly am happy that we can talk about this stuff without being rude to other people here. you all are a lot more mature than my family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustafabey Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Thought for the day Perhaps this unrest in Tunisia,Egypt,Jordan,Yemen, etc,has little to with oppressive dictators,Islamic politics or anti IsraeliAmerican feelings. it has to do with rising global food prices. It has to do with continued exploitation of the poor by gambling on resources. If this spreads it will cause havoc in a large part of the world. America has nothing to worry about, because its citizens are mostly too stupid to understand that they too are being fleeced(check your gas prices.....Egypt produces very little oil... but prices go up anyway) Obscene profits maybe the cause of all this... and then maybe not just thinking aloud. Here's a link regarding global food prices [url="http://money.cnn.com/2011/01/28/news/international/inflation_food_prices_middle_east/index.htm?source=cnn_bin&hpt=Sbin"]Food prices[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. B Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) [quote name='mustafabey' timestamp='1296493384' post='496312'] Thought for the day Perhaps this unrest in Tunisia,Egypt,Jordan,Yemen, etc,has little to with oppressive dictators,Islamic politics or anti IsraeliAmerican feelings. it has to do with rising global food prices. It has to do with continued exploitation of the poor by gambling on resources. If this spreads it will cause havoc in a large part of the world. America has nothing to worry about, because its citizens are mostly too stupid to understand that they too are being fleeced(check your gas prices.....Egypt produces very little oil... but prices go up anyway) Obscene profits maybe the cause of all this... and then maybe not just thinking aloud. Here's a link regarding global food prices [url="http://money.cnn.com/2011/01/28/news/international/inflation_food_prices_middle_east/index.htm?source=cnn_bin&hpt=Sbin"]Food prices[/url] [/quote] I'm inclined to agree. In America, we are blessed to think it necessary to quarrel about the position of the state in foreign affairs when unrest sets in on the eve of chaos. We are accustomed so that the revolution of the mind and the united perspective be of utmost importance in rationalizing our grievances. We have deracinated the meaning of suffering. I find it much more likely that fear for, and questioning of, the ability to merely survive benevolently has catalyzed these uprisings; less some veil has been cast atop our heads which has convinced us to preemptively endanger our lives. My heart and prayers go out to those who worry about their survival. Edited February 1, 2011 by Dr. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joytron Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Let them eat Nakhla! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 BREAKING NEWS: EGYPT HAS LEFT AFRICA! [IMG]http://i55.tinypic.com/294m9ab.jpg[/IMG] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agunn1231 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 [quote name='Tyler' timestamp='1296592206' post='496478'] BREAKING NEWS: EGYPT HAS LEFT AFRICA! [img]http://i55.tinypic.com/294m9ab.jpg[/img] [/quote] i saw this on failblog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chreees Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Only on Fox News... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushrat Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 The Army has apparently sided with Mubarak. This is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustafabey Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 [quote name='mushrat' timestamp='1296652835' post='496551'] The Army has apparently sided with Mubarak. This is bad. [/quote] I maybe wrong,but this appears to be a compromise solution cooked up by Obama and Netanyahu, Neither the America or Israel can afford an Egypt that doesn't respect the peace that Sadat made. Both leaders fear that free democratic elections would bring the Muslim Brotherhood into power. Although the Brothers have sworn to non violence, they are "Islamist" and America really doesn't understand the nuance of Islam. Mohamed ElBaradei is,unfortunately,not a choice the Americans would be comfortable, as he called former Pres. Bush a liar,when Bush accussed Saddam Hussein of having WMD's. ElBaradei has also been critical of America's policies with Iran regarding nukes. So probably the only man who could pull off transition is unacceptable. What this has done to what was left of America's reputation in the Islamic world is probably unrepairable.They remember Obama's 2009 Cairo speech, with its olive branches and rhetoric of peace, and they get this deal. The military is the power right now, either they stand up to for the people or they will stuff their pockets with US taxpayer dollars. It is sad that leaders like Obama and Netanyahu did not have the quality of advice to tell them that this situation would not work. Too many special interests with agendas that do not include bread for the Egyptian people. A progressive government in Israel might have come up with a better solution. Their are many Israeli citizen who are sick and tired of all the hate and violence. An ElBaradei transition government would not have threatened either Israel or the US,the peace treaties would have remained in force, and an elected government would not have dominated by extremists. The popularity of the Muslim Brotherhood comes from the vast network of social services they supply to fill the gap of what little the Egyptian government does. All this solution means is that Mubarak and his cronies have a few months to rape Egypt of everything of value. They will probably even try to fly those great cash producers, the pyramids, out of the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hassouni Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 [quote name='mushrat' timestamp='1296652835' post='496551'] The Army has apparently sided with Mubarak. This is bad. [/quote] No, they haven't. They've been fairly well behind the people. Re: the Brotherhood - a lot of talking heads have speculated that as they are likely NOT actually a majority group, they may tone down their ideology the same way AK Parti did in Turkey - I really hope this happens. AKP is accused of being Islamist, but their own goals have basically been only to create equal rights for religious people in Turkey - a "secular" country that essentially favors the irreligious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustafabey Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I wonder if the army is doing some fence sitting of its own. All the violence seems be coming from "pro Mubarak" supporters who have materialized out of nowhere. Rumors of pay available to thugs and police ID's found on ones detained by demonstartors seem to point to the Interior Dept police. Earlier all police where removed in hopes anarchy would reign. The text of Mubarak's speech would have warmed the hearts of any political speechwriter in the USA. All lies,half truths and bullshit mixed with denial of any responsibilty. Sooner or later the army is going to have make a decision. On another aspect of this issue, i received a promotional e mail from one of our favorite vendors saying that his suppliers expected shortages and a rise in price. Apparently Khalil Mamoun is out in Maidan al Takrir and not welding hookahs in his shop. Keep your head down Khalil, we are with you in spirit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rani Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 [quote name='mushrat' timestamp='1296652835' post='496551'] The Army has apparently sided with Mubarak. This is bad. [/quote] Bad is an understatement. There's a bloodbath in the works I'm thinking. All because a man who's planning on stepping down in September anyway, won't just go ahead and retire now. 'Rani EDIT: Oh, I'm seeing maybe it's not so bad? I've got to check with my friends from Egypt and make sure their families are okay, and maybe they have more information than the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nun Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 well, someone in msir replied my email early this morning, so i guess there's still little internet going on in al qahera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chreees Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Yeah I've heard their internet is back up, but cell phone service is still a no-go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agunn1231 Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 [quote name='INCUBUSRATM' timestamp='1296786925' post='496734'] Yeah I've heard their internet is back up, but cell phone service is still a no-go. [/quote] i heard the opposite on tv this morning. but they said there is ways around the internet ban, like dialing into the internet through a connection with another country. i dunno sounded plausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chreees Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 See, that's the thing, can't ever know what to believe... But I do know there's a guy in Egypt who's posting about it all on another forum. That's where I heard it from. Figured that must be pretty reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nun Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 cell phones can only receive calls and sms, and make phone calls. they still cannot send out sms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chreees Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 [quote name='nun' timestamp='1296787521' post='496737'] cell phones can only receive calls and sms, and make phone calls. they still cannot send out sms. [/quote] Well, the guy on the forum who I've been following says they canNOT receive text messages... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now