Obama Or Mccain?

[TheScotsman]

2: McCain is a flip flopper. There should be another group of "Swift Boat Vets" just to point out his hypocrisy.

3: Military experience doesnt = foreign policy plans and a good sound blueprint to quelling the world's fall into disorder.

4: It isnt the social stances he's taking that are of concern. It is his further appointment of a more conservative Supreme Court than we have at this very moment (which is majority conservative). They will be the ones revisiting social decisions by past Supreme Courts trying to overturn Roe v. Wade and ban gay marriage outright along with others.

5: Obama's tax plan is designed to roll back the tax cuts the Bush Administration put in place, it does not add any new taxes on the upper class thus far. It also seeks to lower taxes on the upper middle, middle and lower classes. Those plans may cancel eachother out, but in the end, those who can afford to pay more should pay more. It would suck, but it helps the majority and would restore the middle class.

Damn, I wanna go on but I'm too lazy. Visit realclearpolitics.com to set your own record straight.

McCain is a flip flopper... and you call him a hypocrite. Ok, let's evaluate the logic of that statement. Not that I don't agree that he is a republocrat, I am just pointing out the fact you chastise him whil you obamites refuse to look at your own messiah.
http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/story.html?id=633140 -on Iraq the Obamanation flip flops
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/07/08/an-o...n-negative-ads/ -on negative ads Hussein does the 2-step
http://www.courant.com/news/opinion/editor...0,6908178.story -On campaign financing.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9982898-7.html -on warrant-less wire taps
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/20...s-gun-flip-flop -On firearms ownership
(Not to mention he LIES about it... http://youtube.com/watch?v=DhL8aeIsTEo&feature=related )
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/05/05/obama...anol-flip-flop/ -on ethanol
http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/o...p-flop-on-nafta -On NAFTA
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/200...06/1119341.aspx - On Jerusalem
http://www.rightupfront.org/2008/04/obama-...ev-wrights.html - On Rev Wright
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/...1779544,00.html -On his Flag Pin Fiasco.

Obama=flip-flop express!




Not to mention he states he is embarrassed Americans go to Europe and can't speak the native language... but states it without even having a proper mastery of English! Complete elitist jackass! Some hero you have there.


The supreme court can't "ban" anything. They CAN declare it unconstitutional, which is a long way from a ban. (It is also their job) Calling it a "ban" is a deceiving tactic.

You don't seem to grasp just what B. Hussein Obama's tax plan is, nor what it does. If you have ANY idea a dumbocrat is going to reduce your taxes, you are out of your mind... or just plain broke. Obama's "plan" (as long as he doesn't flip-flop on it, or, wait... just plain lie about it.) would save the v.low/low income a bit, but they already don't pay much in taxes. (It's really more of an income redistribution plan than a tax plan) The one that gets nailed is the normal suburban-dwelling-middle/upper middle class family. Not that I think McCain is any better, his plan is a bet better for the middle-class family, but gives the farm away to the upper income groups. Read the horror for yourself http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/.


Real clear politics is 51% owned by Forbes, also a partner company with Time, and CNN. Could you find a more biased source?

THe problem with this election is that I can't bring myself to want to vote for a wishy-washy McCain, but there is no way I can vote for a blabbering bag of lying wind like Obama. Voting for a 3rd party is a vote for Obama... so I am stuck voting for McCain, and I am horrified by it. Edited July 9, 2008 by TheScotsman

[greeknate88]

I found this article, and I think everyone here would benefit from reading it.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/145155

[nestormakhno]

The whole welfare system wasnt designed to help those people. The welfare system was designed for people who were laid off or cut from their jobs and they are having difficulty finding new ones. The system does help those people you speak of, but if unemployment and welfare help just a fraction of the people starving in this country I consider it a successful system. Just because you dont have to look at them as you pass by the ghettos of this country doesnt mean we dont have people who are starving. I dont want this country, the greatest one on the planet to turn into fucking Africa but instead of just black people starving, it's white AND black people. Do you? Do you want people in this country to starve? It's a fucking cold day when you put your shoe on the face of someone who's dying of starvation and we DO have them here, and you push their heads further into the dirt. And guess the fuck what? We also have people in this country who have never had to visit a food bank in their lives having to go to them now. Food banks all over this country are running out of food when they never did before. It aint just people who reproduce like fucking rabbits who need this crap. It's turning into an ever growing number of working people just like you. So before you slam on the welfare system from your perch up in the hills, consider not just people who are getting it but dont deserve it, but people who need it and may not have it in a country ruled by you. I'd rather have it in place in case I EVER need it. Because if it isnt there, then I turn into one of those starving saps. It's a different world when just a few things go wrong and they snowball and throw you into complete depression. I hope to hell you never have to go through that, but if you do, you might change your mind.

To put it coldly and blutly, I'll answer one of your best questions. "Do you want people in this country to starve?"

YES. If it means ME and MY family can eat, then yes. But when I'm eating ramen noodles because I can't afford groceries and my money is going to someone else, it's hard for me to sit back and be greatful for the system. I'm where I'm at because I have a J.O.B. - these things that are at every McDonald's in the country.

Sure, there are people that have fallen on hard times that wouldn't normally, but personally - it sucks to be them. These people need to rely on family and friends to help in the time of need and not get free paydays from our government. Sure, while only SOME people abuse it, the fact of the matter is the system is designed to perpetuate "free money no workey" mentality.

But in the end, if I have to choose between me and my children eating, vs some other family somewhere else - I'm sorry but I'm not giving what I have away so some other family can live better than me because our federal government decided to increase my taxes to give them better food.

From a humanitarian perspective, I see where people might think that you're being greedy and selfish by saying that you want to withhold from sharing. From an instinctual perspective, everyone thinks the same way you do: you will first feed your family and then you will feed everyone else.

This goes hand-in-hand with the fact that the Fuck the Poor mentality has made America the most economically successful country ever (by the way, go ahead and dispute that right now, we're still number 1. What's going on with the crops, the oil, and the real estate market is petty complaining compared to the shithole that the rest of the world is in). American capitalism doesn't have time for the lower classes. Unfortunate, but true. This is why they are marginalized. I just read some article today about how shows like "Roseanne" don't exist anymore. People don't want to look at the working class. They don't care. They have their own socioeconomic statuses to deal with. This is why most people become Republicans as they get older: once you're out of high school and college, you maintain a normal job, you want to keep your money for yourself instead of sending it off to God knows where.

The welfare system, by the way, is corrupt and totally incoherent. There was some reality show on MTV a few years ago (I want to say it was "Diary") where some famous rapper, possibly Method Man or Redman, went to pick up a welfare check. Obama himself helped people leech the system. Unless people are genuinely mentally ill (in which case, most of them are homeless and don't even know what welfare is) or physically disabled, they should get off the pedestal and go find a job. I know that working at Burger King may not be the career that you've always dreamed of, but at least it's something. Although something tells me that people who are chronically on welfare for no deserved reason find it much more glamorous to sit in front of the TV all day doing nothing, in the best case scenario.

The idea of welfare itself discourages labor. This is not only a logical conclusion, but a solid, economic fact. The more money you make, the less you want to work. The more money you make doing nothing, and especially if your benefits are cut for each hour you work, I would like to watch you get a real job.

As a sidenote, I think that senior citizens should be spared my tirade. At that age, it is neither laziness nor brattiness that keeps them from working, and I would like to help them exit this world gracefully, since most of the population has already dismissed them as useless.

By the way, as I was writing this post, I got an NYT News Alert: Senate approved immunity for telecom companies that aided the American government in wiretapping people without warrants. The vote was 69-28. Now, with a Democratic majority in the Senate, who is with me in agreeing that Republicans and Democrats are equally futile, equally egotistical, and disgustingly similar? I can't wait for one of those bastards to come out and say, on his own campaign trail or someone else's, that he has the American people in mind when he votes. Ugh.

[jezter6]

Well, with a 69-28 vote nobody can blame the 'party line' for doing this. Everyone's for letting big corporations off the hook.

Wonder if Obama had the chance to actually vote on that - I doubt it. Like everything else, I don't think he actually DOES any voting.

Which begs the question - if you don't show up to vote on legislation (and you're a legislator) - what are you ACTUALLY doing that qualifies as job experience?

[Bulldog_916]

2: McCain is a flip flopper. There should be another group of "Swift Boat Vets" just to point out his hypocrisy.

3: Military experience doesnt = foreign policy plans and a good sound blueprint to quelling the world's fall into disorder.

4: It isnt the social stances he's taking that are of concern. It is his further appointment of a more conservative Supreme Court than we have at this very moment (which is majority conservative). They will be the ones revisiting social decisions by past Supreme Courts trying to overturn Roe v. Wade and ban gay marriage outright along with others.

5: Obama's tax plan is designed to roll back the tax cuts the Bush Administration put in place, it does not add any new taxes on the upper class thus far. It also seeks to lower taxes on the upper middle, middle and lower classes. Those plans may cancel eachother out, but in the end, those who can afford to pay more should pay more. It would suck, but it helps the majority and would restore the middle class.

Damn, I wanna go on but I'm too lazy. Visit realclearpolitics.com to set your own record straight.

McCain is a flip flopper... and you call him a hypocrite. Ok, let's evaluate the logic of that statement. Not that I don't agree that he is a republocrat, I am just pointing out the fact you chastise him whil you obamites refuse to look at your own messiah.
http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/story.html?id=633140 -on Iraq the Obamanation flip flops
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/07/08/an-o...n-negative-ads/ -on negative ads Hussein does the 2-step
http://www.courant.com/news/opinion/editor...0,6908178.story -On campaign financing.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9982898-7.html -on warrant-less wire taps
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/20...s-gun-flip-flop -On firearms ownership
(Not to mention he LIES about it... http://youtube.com/watch?v=DhL8aeIsTEo&feature=related )
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/05/05/obama...anol-flip-flop/ -on ethanol
http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/o...p-flop-on-nafta -On NAFTA
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/200...06/1119341.aspx - On Jerusalem
http://www.rightupfront.org/2008/04/obama-...ev-wrights.html - On Rev Wright
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/...1779544,00.html -On his Flag Pin Fiasco.

Obama=flip-flop express!




Not to mention he states he is embarrassed Americans go to Europe and can't speak the native language... but states it without even having a proper mastery of English! Complete elitist jackass! Some hero you have there.


The supreme court can't "ban" anything. They CAN declare it unconstitutional, which is a long way from a ban. (It is also their job) Calling it a "ban" is a deceiving tactic.

You don't seem to grasp just what B. Hussein Obama's tax plan is, nor what it does. If you have ANY idea a dumbocrat is going to reduce your taxes, you are out of your mind... or just plain broke. Obama's "plan" (as long as he doesn't flip-flop on it, or, wait... just plain lie about it.) would save the v.low/low income a bit, but they already don't pay much in taxes. (It's really more of an income redistribution plan than a tax plan) The one that gets nailed is the normal suburban-dwelling-middle/upper middle class family. Not that I think McCain is any better, his plan is a bet better for the middle-class family, but gives the farm away to the upper income groups. Read the horror for yourself http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/.


Real clear politics is 51% owned by Forbes, also a partner company with Time, and CNN. Could you find a more biased source?

THe problem with this election is that I can't bring myself to want to vote for a wishy-washy McCain, but there is no way I can vote for a blabbering bag of lying wind like Obama. Voting for a 3rd party is a vote for Obama... so I am stuck voting for McCain, and I am horrified by it.

Just the fact that you cited Michelle Malkin's website forces me to discount your entire post out of hand. Hilarious. Just take a shortcut next time and cite Fox News directly, at least then I'll know not to waste my time reading it.

I'll agree that this country is fucked either way. In some areas I really dont like Obama, but in the ways he compares to McCain, I have no choice but to vote for him. And I am an independent, regardless of my defense of Obama. I dont like either democrats or republicans. But Obama is the lesser of 2 evils to me. I will be dancing in the streets if he wins.

1. On the "attack ads" they are all policy based. He pledged not to do any dirty negative campaigning. Not questioning McCain's service, not questioning his character or his dedication to this country. Come on.

2. The Iraq thing wasnt even a flip flop, if you look at his past statements you'll know that he said that the whole damn time. He wont make any irrational withdraws until he knows the conditions on the ground. He said that from day one.

3. The only reason McCain is taking the public financing is because he knows he cant raise the money Obama can. If he could raise more than him, he'd decry public financing, too. That's a draw as far as I'm concerned.

4. The whole flag pin thing is petty. But the repukes would bone him in the ass if he didnt do it. And they would impugne his character till the bitter end. That kinda shit loses votes. It's stupid to even cite that whole issue. Patriotism shouldnt even be on the table in this election. But the repukes would crucify him if he didnt cave a little bit, so who really loses that one?

5. On NAFTA, he said they'll use the hammer of a possible 'opt out' to help retool and renegotiate NAFTA on the environmental issues and labor standards. On the recent video, they are talking about a full "pull out" from NAFTA unilaterally without rhyme or reason. They didnt even mention why we would pull out of NAFTA in that video. The "flip flop" is nebulous at best, non-existent at worst.

6. On the 2nd Amendment, Obama said he has always supported people's right to bear arms, but wants to retool the laws to make stricter policies on people who own guns in urban areas as opposed to rural areas. Maybe he did flip-flop on the DC handgun ban.

7. On Rev. Wright, he did his best to quell this story while still remaining faithful to a place he attended church at for 20 years, give the man a little credit. Maybe he did do some politically expedient separating but at that point, it was split off from it or have that lingering question in the air for 7 months. That isnt flip-flopping, that's putting a non-issue to bed. I would have done the same thing.

That's 1 out of 10 so far. You're batting .100 there chief.

Edited July 10, 2008 by Bulldog_916

[AKammenzind]

I'll agree that this country is fucked either way. In some areas I really dont like Obama, but in the ways he compares to McCain, I have no choice but to vote for him. And I am an independent, regardless of my defense of Obama. I dont like either democrats or republicans. But Obama is the lesser of 2 evils to me. I will be dancing in the streets if he wins.

Obama does seem like less of a screw-up than McCain, but just because you did better on your finals than the inbred stoner sitting next to you shouldn't make you hop up from your seat and whip out a jig.

I think it would be more fitting if you just mourned slightly less than you would if McCain won.

[Bulldog_916]

Nope, I will be dancing in the streets for these reasons:

1. There is a change of political poles, even if an ideological one rather than a substantive one.

2. The Bush Administration is over.

3. Iraq will be over.

4. Clean energy can start implementation in earnest. Having an oilman in the Whitehouse has hindered energy independence for over 7 years.

5. Some are saying the price of a barrel of oil will drop well over 40 bucks if Obama wins. This drop in price may stabilize the market and get companies back into the green territory again. Gas prices at 2.90 will be painful yes, but it will spare us some time getting implementation of the electric car, biodiesel, and hybrid technologies in place quickly and efficiently. All three could be in place in most major cities in 3 years as far as infrastructure goes, if the proper funding is put forth.

[NJE03]

I find myself in a position of deciding the lesser of two evils. I don't know if I can bear to live with the guilt I would bring upon myself if I were to vote for either of these awful candidates. What ever shall I do...

[jezter6]

bulldog: you act as if "Iraq is over" the day he wins the election. Iraq will never be over - for ANY candidate. This is our vietnam, man.

you also ast as if day 1 everyone goes "Oh wait, Obama's the president? Everyone sell off your oil cheap now that Bush is gone." I don't think so.


If these miracles you are praying for are what makes you love Obama, then maybe you need to sit down with Big George and maybe when god talks to him - he can talk to you too - because I don't see these miracles happening.

[Giant Ninja Robot]

Nestor - It was Old Dirty Bastard.


May the Thirsty Love Guzzlah R.I.P. Edited July 10, 2008 by giant ninja robot

[boulderkid303]

This one is for Boulder again: There's a popular, CIA-based theory (and I mean, from people who have worked for the CIA and no longer do, despise the organization, write angry memoirs, etc) that it was Clinton's continued negligence toward funding more Middle East-based programs for the CIA that caused 9/11. Even in 2001, there were very few people in the Agency who spoke Arabic. That doesn't happen overnight. As for "senseless wars" (since Iraq isn't a war, and neither was Afghanistan, let's call them "engagements"), kindly recall Bosnia and Mogadishu. Although both encounters were very brief and the former ended rather pleasantly, how would you ignore that?





LOL where the fuck did this come from?

[Bulldog_916]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/25590462/site/14081545/

This is the story about the possibility of Obama winning cutting the price of oil.

[jezter6]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/25590462/site/14081545/

2) Obama will speak in a more concilatory tone toward nations in the Middle East. If he does, some of the risk premium would likely be extracted from the oil price.

Yep, that's some high quality speculation right there. Let me just jump on the Obama fan club now - I read it on the interenet so it must be true - talking nicely to people will suddenly drop oil prices.

And you think FoxNews tells some whoppers? Good god man, how could you read that with a straight face and then come back and post it here?

[Giant Ninja Robot]

Well I guess were fucked as a nation, Apparently Obama and Mccain are both sons of satan and either way we're damned. Better start building the bomb shelters people.

Can you sense the sarcasm? Maybe I'm being too apathetic but these candidates are being represented here to such an extreme degree of bias that I feel doomed reading through the pages.

Let's remember that the president also serves in major part as a figure-head and the real business is decided by an entire cabinet, and oh yeah, there's that thing called congress as well. You can't pin the positive or negative all on the one person.

[Bulldog_916]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/25590462/site/14081545/

2) Obama will speak in a more concilatory tone toward nations in the Middle East. If he does, some of the risk premium would likely be extracted from the oil price.

Yep, that's some high quality speculation right there. Let me just jump on the Obama fan club now - I read it on the interenet so it must be true - talking nicely to people will suddenly drop oil prices.

And you think FoxNews tells some whoppers? Good god man, how could you read that with a straight face and then come back and post it here?

Saber-rattling doesnt drop oil prices, especially when you're rattling the saber in the middle of the biggest group of oil producing countries in the world. Bush is personally responsible for the tensions in the middle east right now. He took away the only check in that balance. Iran isnt trying to acquire nuclear weapons, most all the IAEA officials that have examined the intelligence related to Iran have said that. So all the rhetoric by the Bush administration makes Iran saber-rattle against Israel to get us to back off. But eventually it turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you make Iran believe enough that the U.S. will attack them, then Iran strikes against Israel early on, causing a chain reaction and automatically getting the U.S. involved in an Iran conflict. We know that Iran isnt trying to enrich uranium for nukes unless they wanna wait 50 years to get the necessary quantities of uranium to make a weaponization program possible.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/14_09_06_iaea.pdf

Toning down the rhetoric would definitely have an effect in dropping oil prices. No doubt in my mind.

[ASUSEAN1]

5. Some are saying the price of a barrel of oil will drop well over 40 bucks if Obama wins.

i got 2 g's that the complete opposite will happen if obama is elected

[TheScotsman]

2: McCain is a flip flopper. There should be another group of "Swift Boat Vets" just to point out his hypocrisy.

3: Military experience doesnt = foreign policy plans and a good sound blueprint to quelling the world's fall into disorder.

4: It isnt the social stances he's taking that are of concern. It is his further appointment of a more conservative Supreme Court than we have at this very moment (which is majority conservative). They will be the ones revisiting social decisions by past Supreme Courts trying to overturn Roe v. Wade and ban gay marriage outright along with others.

5: Obama's tax plan is designed to roll back the tax cuts the Bush Administration put in place, it does not add any new taxes on the upper class thus far. It also seeks to lower taxes on the upper middle, middle and lower classes. Those plans may cancel eachother out, but in the end, those who can afford to pay more should pay more. It would suck, but it helps the majority and would restore the middle class.

Damn, I wanna go on but I'm too lazy. Visit realclearpolitics.com to set your own record straight.

McCain is a flip flopper... and you call him a hypocrite. Ok, let's evaluate the logic of that statement. Not that I don't agree that he is a republocrat, I am just pointing out the fact you chastise him whil you obamites refuse to look at your own messiah.
http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/story.html?id=633140 -on Iraq the Obamanation flip flops
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/07/08/an-o...n-negative-ads/ -on negative ads Hussein does the 2-step
http://www.courant.com/news/opinion/editor...0,6908178.story -On campaign financing.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9982898-7.html -on warrant-less wire taps
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/20...s-gun-flip-flop -On firearms ownership
(Not to mention he LIES about it... http://youtube.com/watch?v=DhL8aeIsTEo&feature=related )
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/05/05/obama...anol-flip-flop/ -on ethanol
http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/o...p-flop-on-nafta -On NAFTA
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/200...06/1119341.aspx - On Jerusalem
http://www.rightupfront.org/2008/04/obama-...ev-wrights.html - On Rev Wright
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/...1779544,00.html -On his Flag Pin Fiasco.

Obama=flip-flop express!




Not to mention he states he is embarrassed Americans go to Europe and can't speak the native language... but states it without even having a proper mastery of English! Complete elitist jackass! Some hero you have there.


The supreme court can't "ban" anything. They CAN declare it unconstitutional, which is a long way from a ban. (It is also their job) Calling it a "ban" is a deceiving tactic.

You don't seem to grasp just what B. Hussein Obama's tax plan is, nor what it does. If you have ANY idea a dumbocrat is going to reduce your taxes, you are out of your mind... or just plain broke. Obama's "plan" (as long as he doesn't flip-flop on it, or, wait... just plain lie about it.) would save the v.low/low income a bit, but they already don't pay much in taxes. (It's really more of an income redistribution plan than a tax plan) The one that gets nailed is the normal suburban-dwelling-middle/upper middle class family. Not that I think McCain is any better, his plan is a bet better for the middle-class family, but gives the farm away to the upper income groups. Read the horror for yourself http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/.


Real clear politics is 51% owned by Forbes, also a partner company with Time, and CNN. Could you find a more biased source?

THe problem with this election is that I can't bring myself to want to vote for a wishy-washy McCain, but there is no way I can vote for a blabbering bag of lying wind like Obama. Voting for a 3rd party is a vote for Obama... so I am stuck voting for McCain, and I am horrified by it.

Just the fact that you cited Michelle Malkin's website forces me to discount your entire post out of hand. Hilarious. Just take a shortcut next time and cite Fox News directly, at least then I'll know not to waste my time reading it.

I'll agree that this country is fucked either way. In some areas I really dont like Obama, but in the ways he compares to McCain, I have no choice but to vote for him. And I am an independent, regardless of my defense of Obama. I dont like either democrats or republicans. But Obama is the lesser of 2 evils to me. I will be dancing in the streets if he wins.

1. On the "attack ads" they are all policy based. He pledged not to do any dirty negative campaigning. Not questioning McCain's service, not questioning his character or his dedication to this country. Come on.

2. The Iraq thing wasnt even a flip flop, if you look at his past statements you'll know that he said that the whole damn time. He wont make any irrational withdraws until he knows the conditions on the ground. He said that from day one.

3. The only reason McCain is taking the public financing is because he knows he cant raise the money Obama can. If he could raise more than him, he'd decry public financing, too. That's a draw as far as I'm concerned.

4. The whole flag pin thing is petty. But the repukes would bone him in the ass if he didnt do it. And they would impugne his character till the bitter end. That kinda shit loses votes. It's stupid to even cite that whole issue. Patriotism shouldnt even be on the table in this election. But the repukes would crucify him if he didnt cave a little bit, so who really loses that one?

5. On NAFTA, he said they'll use the hammer of a possible 'opt out' to help retool and renegotiate NAFTA on the environmental issues and labor standards. On the recent video, they are talking about a full "pull out" from NAFTA unilaterally without rhyme or reason. They didnt even mention why we would pull out of NAFTA in that video. The "flip flop" is nebulous at best, non-existent at worst.

6. On the 2nd Amendment, Obama said he has always supported people's right to bear arms, but wants to retool the laws to make stricter policies on people who own guns in urban areas as opposed to rural areas. Maybe he did flip-flop on the DC handgun ban.

7. On Rev. Wright, he did his best to quell this story while still remaining faithful to a place he attended church at for 20 years, give the man a little credit. Maybe he did do some politically expedient separating but at that point, it was split off from it or have that lingering question in the air for 7 months. That isnt flip-flopping, that's putting a non-issue to bed. I would have done the same thing.

That's 1 out of 10 so far. You're batting .100 there chief.

Just another liberal freak making excuses for Obama.
I guess if you are right that is why even the liberal press is coming down on him for it.

Just the fact you think Hussein supports gun rights tells me you really have no grasp on his true voting record. Go look at his 1996 candidate survey... in his own hand he wrote that he favored a ban on handguns. Now he "supports" our constitutional right. How elitist can he be? It's not his place to support, or deny what the constitution granted. As much as people think he is the messiah, he isn't. He has no ability to overrule a right granted by the constitution. Evolving policy is candidate code for "got caught in a flip-flop"


In Feb '07 he said: "That's why I have a plan that will bring our combat troops home by March of 2008." Now he says he is "refining" his policy. For the love of it all, if he has been so obviously ill-informed as a voting member of the senate he should be tossed out, and charged with treason for admittedly not knowing what he was voting on when he was making life-changing decisions with his head up his arse.

How about... Obama on abortion: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer/20...item-about-rove

No, it's not a flip-flop... it's a policy update, right?

Obama campaign during the primaries:

To be clear: Barack will support a filibuster of any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies.

This is Obama now:

My view on FISA has always been that the issue of the phone companies per se is not one that overrides the security interests of the American people."

And you call that not flip-flopping. Ok, keep deceiving yourself.
Liberalism is a mental disorder... we are seeing proof.

As for Obama's tax plans, he stated that he could close loopholes in the corp tax code that cost the gov't 1 trillion in corp taxes. You know, that would be easier to believe if the ACTUAL corp taxes collected in their entirety were not just 372 billion in '07. Now that is some loophole, eh? Typical of obamessiah, when you hear his noise, the devil is in the details... but his BS works good to blindside the uninformed. He wants to take another 7 million senior citizens off the tax roles, Guess who will be paying more for them? That would be YOU! Just what the system needs, some age discrimination injected into it. If you are in the <40 crowd you are already to get flooded with baby-boomer retirement bills to pay, What is a few more? After all that FICA line on your pay-stub is just too low of number. And, best of all... cut taxes on people who are not paying any taxes in the first place. How does that one work?

Let's hear more excuses. I need a good laugh in the AM.

[Apoc Genesis]

2: McCain is a flip flopper. There should be another group of "Swift Boat Vets" just to point out his hypocrisy.

3: Military experience doesnt = foreign policy plans and a good sound blueprint to quelling the world's fall into disorder.

4: It isnt the social stances he's taking that are of concern. It is his further appointment of a more conservative Supreme Court than we have at this very moment (which is majority conservative). They will be the ones revisiting social decisions by past Supreme Courts trying to overturn Roe v. Wade and ban gay marriage outright along with others.

5: Obama's tax plan is designed to roll back the tax cuts the Bush Administration put in place, it does not add any new taxes on the upper class thus far. It also seeks to lower taxes on the upper middle, middle and lower classes. Those plans may cancel eachother out, but in the end, those who can afford to pay more should pay more. It would suck, but it helps the majority and would restore the middle class.

Damn, I wanna go on but I'm too lazy. Visit realclearpolitics.com to set your own record straight.

McCain is a flip flopper... and you call him a hypocrite. Ok, let's evaluate the logic of that statement. Not that I don't agree that he is a republocrat, I am just pointing out the fact you chastise him whil you obamites refuse to look at your own messiah.
http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/story.html?id=633140 -on Iraq the Obamanation flip flops
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/07/08/an-o...n-negative-ads/ -on negative ads Hussein does the 2-step
http://www.courant.com/news/opinion/editor...0,6908178.story -On campaign financing.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9982898-7.html -on warrant-less wire taps
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/20...s-gun-flip-flop -On firearms ownership
(Not to mention he LIES about it... http://youtube.com/watch?v=DhL8aeIsTEo&feature=related )
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/05/05/obama...anol-flip-flop/ -on ethanol
http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/o...p-flop-on-nafta -On NAFTA
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/200...06/1119341.aspx - On Jerusalem
http://www.rightupfront.org/2008/04/obama-...ev-wrights.html - On Rev Wright
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/...1779544,00.html -On his Flag Pin Fiasco.

Obama=flip-flop express!




Not to mention he states he is embarrassed Americans go to Europe and can't speak the native language... but states it without even having a proper mastery of English! Complete elitist jackass! Some hero you have there.


The supreme court can't "ban" anything. They CAN declare it unconstitutional, which is a long way from a ban. (It is also their job) Calling it a "ban" is a deceiving tactic.

You don't seem to grasp just what B. Hussein Obama's tax plan is, nor what it does. If you have ANY idea a dumbocrat is going to reduce your taxes, you are out of your mind... or just plain broke. Obama's "plan" (as long as he doesn't flip-flop on it, or, wait... just plain lie about it.) would save the v.low/low income a bit, but they already don't pay much in taxes. (It's really more of an income redistribution plan than a tax plan) The one that gets nailed is the normal suburban-dwelling-middle/upper middle class family. Not that I think McCain is any better, his plan is a bet better for the middle-class family, but gives the farm away to the upper income groups. Read the horror for yourself http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/.


Real clear politics is 51% owned by Forbes, also a partner company with Time, and CNN. Could you find a more biased source?

THe problem with this election is that I can't bring myself to want to vote for a wishy-washy McCain, but there is no way I can vote for a blabbering bag of lying wind like Obama. Voting for a 3rd party is a vote for Obama... so I am stuck voting for McCain, and I am horrified by it.

Just the fact that you cited Michelle Malkin's website forces me to discount your entire post out of hand. Hilarious. Just take a shortcut next time and cite Fox News directly, at least then I'll know not to waste my time reading it.

I'll agree that this country is fucked either way. In some areas I really dont like Obama, but in the ways he compares to McCain, I have no choice but to vote for him. And I am an independent, regardless of my defense of Obama. I dont like either democrats or republicans. But Obama is the lesser of 2 evils to me. I will be dancing in the streets if he wins.

1. On the "attack ads" they are all policy based. He pledged not to do any dirty negative campaigning. Not questioning McCain's service, not questioning his character or his dedication to this country. Come on.

2. The Iraq thing wasnt even a flip flop, if you look at his past statements you'll know that he said that the whole damn time. He wont make any irrational withdraws until he knows the conditions on the ground. He said that from day one.

3. The only reason McCain is taking the public financing is because he knows he cant raise the money Obama can. If he could raise more than him, he'd decry public financing, too. That's a draw as far as I'm concerned.

4. The whole flag pin thing is petty. But the repukes would bone him in the ass if he didnt do it. And they would impugne his character till the bitter end. That kinda shit loses votes. It's stupid to even cite that whole issue. Patriotism shouldnt even be on the table in this election. But the repukes would crucify him if he didnt cave a little bit, so who really loses that one?

5. On NAFTA, he said they'll use the hammer of a possible 'opt out' to help retool and renegotiate NAFTA on the environmental issues and labor standards. On the recent video, they are talking about a full "pull out" from NAFTA unilaterally without rhyme or reason. They didnt even mention why we would pull out of NAFTA in that video. The "flip flop" is nebulous at best, non-existent at worst.

6. On the 2nd Amendment, Obama said he has always supported people's right to bear arms, but wants to retool the laws to make stricter policies on people who own guns in urban areas as opposed to rural areas. Maybe he did flip-flop on the DC handgun ban.

7. On Rev. Wright, he did his best to quell this story while still remaining faithful to a place he attended church at for 20 years, give the man a little credit. Maybe he did do some politically expedient separating but at that point, it was split off from it or have that lingering question in the air for 7 months. That isnt flip-flopping, that's putting a non-issue to bed. I would have done the same thing.

That's 1 out of 10 so far. You're batting .100 there chief.

Just another liberal freak making excuses for Obama.
I guess if you are right that is why even the liberal press is coming down on him for it.

Just the fact you think Hussein supports gun rights tells me you really have no grasp on his true voting record. Go look at his 1996 candidate survey... in his own hand he wrote that he favored a ban on handguns. Now he "supports" our constitutional right. How elitist can he be? It's not his place to support, or deny what the constitution granted. As much as people think he is the messiah, he isn't. He has no ability to overrule a right granted by the constitution. Evolving policy is candidate code for "got caught in a flip-flop"


In Feb '07 he said: "That's why I have a plan that will bring our combat troops home by March of 2008." Now he says he is "refining" his policy. For the love of it all, if he has been so obviously ill-informed as a voting member of the senate he should be tossed out, and charged with treason for admittedly not knowing what he was voting on when he was making life-changing decisions with his head up his arse.

How about... Obama on abortion: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer/20...item-about-rove

No, it's not a flip-flop... it's a policy update, right?

Obama campaign during the primaries:

To be clear: Barack will support a filibuster of any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies.

This is Obama now:

My view on FISA has always been that the issue of the phone companies per se is not one that overrides the security interests of the American people."

And you call that not flip-flopping. Ok, keep deceiving yourself.
Liberalism is a mental disorder... we are seeing proof.

As for Obama's tax plans, he stated that he could close loopholes in the corp tax code that cost the gov't 1 trillion in corp taxes. You know, that would be easier to believe if the ACTUAL corp taxes collected in their entirety were not just 372 billion in '07. Now that is some loophole, eh? Typical of obamessiah, when you hear his noise, the devil is in the details... but his BS works good to blindside the uninformed. He wants to take another 7 million senior citizens off the tax roles, Guess who will be paying more for them? That would be YOU! Just what the system needs, some age discrimination injected into it. If you are in the <40 crowd you are already to get flooded with baby-boomer retirement bills to pay, What is a few more? After all that FICA line on your pay-stub is just too low of number. And, best of all... cut taxes on people who are not paying any taxes in the first place. How does that one work?

Let's hear more excuses. I need a good laugh in the AM.

As someone who is going to have to live with the decisions that are being made, let me just say that I'm incredibly disappointed in how the Democrats are handling this election. The Republicans had a few potential candidates, but now that they have their man, they're standing by him to the end. Even if his name is G.W. Bush pt. II

The Democrats on the other hand are so bitterly divided over this Clinton thing with all of these calls of sexism in the primaries, which is absolute nonsense, that a lil under half of Clinton supporters are saying they wont support Obama at all.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/04/clinton.poll/

She had a good run and she almost made it, but for fucks sake this is ridiculous. Half the voters of an entire party not voting because their candidate lost? At this point, conservatism is not working because there are no real conservatives left, and there is nothing left to conserve. These stupid issues such as gun rights and birth control are not going to mean jack squat in the long run, because in the long run we need to deal with our economy and the environment.

And you know what? Fuck terrorism. Thats right, I said it. The "threat level" means absolutly nothing to me. So we havnt had any more parts of New York come crashing down around us. It hasnt solved any of the actual problems around WHY all of this shit has happened these past few years. We spend so much time and effort trying to find these needle-in-a-haystack nutjobs who want to blow up planes or buildings that we're missing the bigger picture of we are phenomenally screwed if SOMETHING dosen't change for the better.

Because things are a-changing. And they arent good. We're losing more freedoms every year and it dosent seem like aybody gives a hoot because it isnt affecting them directly. At this point there are no more conservatives in government left. You can terorrism-this and Ismalic fascism-that all you want, but dosent matter in the least bit if we cant afford to pay our bills at the end of the month. And let's be real folks, its getting REAL hard to pay the bills what with prices going up and all of the jobs going off to god-knows-where.

And what say does the new generations have in all of this? A war that McCain had said he would keep fighting for 100+ years???!! You talk about paying for this war like generations from here to 2109 are going to sit back and smile and pony up money that YOU *meaning the people who voted for this goddamn war* should be paying. Let me tell you I would much rather take my business to Switzerland and renounce my citizenship than pay one goddamn cent for this insanity. It's throwing away money that could be used for something thats actually useful because lets be honest, Iraw hasnt given us anything excpet plenty of heated discussisons and lots of dead kids, American and Iraqi. Clearly my vote isnt going to count, but I'm fairly sure my dollars will.

Yes im angry. Our country is falling to pieces culturally, morally, economically, politically, and totally once the business people have their way with us, and it dosent seem like my generation has much of a say in it. But mark my words anyone out there who think that McCain is going to bring America back from this brink. You can attack "Hussein" as much as you please, but that wont change the fact that you folks made this bed, and by god you're going to sleep in it.

[Bulldog_916]

Damn man, plus 1. I couldnt have said it better myself.

[boulderkid303]

I disagree. The democrats took the time to find out whothey wanted and didn't rush it and just go with the moment of who was big at the time. Clinton supporters will turn around in time I believe.




As someone who is going to have to live with the decisions that are being made, let me just say that I'm incredibly disappointed in how the Democrats are handling this election. The Republicans had a few potential candidates, but now that they have their man, they're standing by him to the end. Even if his name is G.W. Bush pt. II

[Apoc Genesis]

I disagree. The democrats took the time to find out whothey wanted and didn't rush it and just go with the moment of who was big at the time. Clinton supporters will turn around in time I believe.

Man I hope you're right. Our future is not looking so bright right now, and seriously i dont think McCain is the way to go. We need to change our attitudes towards our culture and our govt and more neo-conservatism is not going to do this nation any good at the moment.

If Obama gets elected thatll be a good start, but we as a society and as individuals are gonna have to help out too. Im not saying "yay government!" even if Obama does get elected, but we gotta step it up and start being smart about our future. This would be a terrible spot to put later generations through to be sure

[Bulldog_916]

Anything we can do as a nation to put ourselves in a better position to be globally competitive is a good move to me. If we treated clean energy like we treat military technology, we could be world leaders and become the central manufacturer for clean technology. The future will become 1. who can use the least energy, and 2. who can produce it the most cheaply. If we are the ones who manufacture the components to make that possible, we become the ones who have the tools in our hands.

[Giant Ninja Robot]

Anything we can do as a nation to put ourselves in a better position to be globally competitive is a good move to me. If we treated clean energy like we treat military technology, we could be world leaders and become the central manufacturer for clean technology. The future will become 1. who can use the least energy, and 2. who can produce it the most cheaply. If we are the ones who manufacture the components to make that possible, we become the ones who have the tools in our hands.

agree 1000%

[jezter6]

I agree too.

Holy crap - both sides of the issue agree?

What's the world coming to?!?!?!

[Apoc Genesis]

BULLDOG FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!!!

WHOS WITH ME!?!?!