Obama Or Mccain?

[TheScotsman]

We have to also remember that it would take up to 20 years to cycle out gas-only autos. Waiting is just pushing back the period of time we are hostage to oil. With China's growth exploding and India on the same path, as well as Russia retaking a seat on the world power stage, we're looking at 8 dollar a gallon petrol sooner rather than later. The faster we get away from that market, the sooner we can lead the world away from it with authority. Obama's speech today in Germany (over 200,000 people in attendance) showed that the world is ready for a solid leader. That's where we have to be. Leading the world with influence and proving that the impossible can be possible. We can manufacture that new level if we choose to. China wont have the technology we have in the field of hybrids, electric cars, hydrogen power, solar and wind technology. We have to stop researching it and start manufacturing it. Cheap energy will draw any world power to it, including China and India. All they have to do is buy the turbines and put them up. Then once they are connected to the grid, maintenance is the only cost. It'll be cheap for them, as all labor is. This isn't a 30 year solution, it has to be a 10 or less year solution to really turn the tides of climate change and habitat destruction.

How completely asinine, and arrogant to think the rest of the world needs or wants America/an American as the messianic leader. Even better you think the WORLD wants him as their leader when his total experience is 143 days of service in the US congress.

Almost as asinine as Obama putting up campaign propaganda on the western wall.

What would happen if he plastered the Vatican, or the Dome of the Rock with his BS posters? It wouldn't be pretty. How about sticking his leftist rubbish all over Mt Rushmore, and the Lincoln memorial. Hey how about just plastering some obama stickers all over the tomb of the unknown soldier... ya, that would be cool.

[Bulldog_916]

We have to also remember that it would take up to 20 years to cycle out gas-only autos. Waiting is just pushing back the period of time we are hostage to oil. With China's growth exploding and India on the same path, as well as Russia retaking a seat on the world power stage, we're looking at 8 dollar a gallon petrol sooner rather than later. The faster we get away from that market, the sooner we can lead the world away from it with authority. Obama's speech today in Germany (over 200,000 people in attendance) showed that the world is ready for a solid leader. That's where we have to be. Leading the world with influence and proving that the impossible can be possible. We can manufacture that new level if we choose to. China wont have the technology we have in the field of hybrids, electric cars, hydrogen power, solar and wind technology. We have to stop researching it and start manufacturing it. Cheap energy will draw any world power to it, including China and India. All they have to do is buy the turbines and put them up. Then once they are connected to the grid, maintenance is the only cost. It'll be cheap for them, as all labor is. This isn't a 30 year solution, it has to be a 10 or less year solution to really turn the tides of climate change and habitat destruction.

How completely asinine, and arrogant to think the rest of the world needs or wants America/an American as the messianic leader. Even better you think the WORLD wants him as their leader when his total experience is 143 days of service in the US congress.

Almost as asinine as Obama putting up campaign propaganda on the western wall.

What would happen if he plastered the Vatican, or the Dome of the Rock with his BS posters? It wouldn't be pretty. How about sticking his leftist rubbish all over Mt Rushmore, and the Lincoln memorial. Hey how about just plastering some obama stickers all over the tomb of the unknown soldier... ya, that would be cool.

Why do you keep calling him the "messiah"? How dumb can you be? How dumb do you think I am? I'm not some blind follower. I did my research on the guy. What's wrong with a regular guy running for president? I thought this nation wanted something fresh and not the same old white guy recycled in each party over and over ad nauseum. That's all I remember from the Bush/Kerry (hello swift boat vets questioning his service, if it isnt one thing it's another) election ...everyone was asking why the democrats didnt pick a fresher, more likable guy to be their candidate. And now they do, and those people again complain that this guy doesnt have "experience". Like sitting in a governor's mansion for 4 years or rotting in the senate for 20 years. Sounds like getting off a fresh prison term and finally hitting the big time more than it sounds like true human experience. If Obama becomes president, that's a victory to any guy/girl next door who has a dream to one day be a leader. If you told every elementary school kid that says "I wanna be president some day" that he would have to slog through 30 years of policy and legislative experience and then become rich beyond his wildest dreams to become president, no one would want to. The man just paid off his student loans a few years ago for god's sake, oh yea totally elitist tea-totling arugala eater!

That's the thing, the world does want a good leader. Why do you, in your infinite wisdom, think that the president of the United States is commonly referred to as the "LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD"!? We have so much fucking influence it isn't even funny. Why would a quarter of a million (estimated) people in Germany, of all places, gather to hear a black man speak when 90% of them have no fucking clue what he's saying? It's called influence. Why would that same country dedicate 5 pages to its main newspaper to cover the guy coming to their country? Influence. When it's world news that Obama goes to Iraq and Afghanistan to talk to military commanders and the guy looks like the president before he's even elected, that's influence. When Bush and Company start tailoring their policies to things the guy said a year ago that needed to be done, that's influence, whether it be political or not. Even al Maliki, prime minister of Iraq, said he agrees with Obama's stance on troop withdrawl, influence. Maybe the world does hope for something better to come along. Maybe Obama is just another politician. But I think I'll take a risk with this one even if it means taking a somewhat blind leap. I'd rather slam into the ground dead not knowing what happened than know exactly what was coming and watching my death as I slam into the rocks below.

Edit to add: In the words of Rudy Giuliani, "9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, dont ever forget."

And as far as that campaign propaganda being put up on the wall, I'm sure, with 200+ thousand people in the vicinity, that it was totally an Obama campaign rep that put those posters up, even though I'm sure, lots of people in the crowds had access to campaign media. Must've been Obama, totally. Guilty as sin. Edited July 25, 2008 by Bulldog_916

[Apoc Genesis]

We have to also remember that it would take up to 20 years to cycle out gas-only autos. Waiting is just pushing back the period of time we are hostage to oil. With China's growth exploding and India on the same path, as well as Russia retaking a seat on the world power stage, we're looking at 8 dollar a gallon petrol sooner rather than later. The faster we get away from that market, the sooner we can lead the world away from it with authority. Obama's speech today in Germany (over 200,000 people in attendance) showed that the world is ready for a solid leader. That's where we have to be. Leading the world with influence and proving that the impossible can be possible. We can manufacture that new level if we choose to. China wont have the technology we have in the field of hybrids, electric cars, hydrogen power, solar and wind technology. We have to stop researching it and start manufacturing it. Cheap energy will draw any world power to it, including China and India. All they have to do is buy the turbines and put them up. Then once they are connected to the grid, maintenance is the only cost. It'll be cheap for them, as all labor is. This isn't a 30 year solution, it has to be a 10 or less year solution to really turn the tides of climate change and habitat destruction.

How completely asinine, and arrogant to think the rest of the world needs or wants America/an American as the messianic leader. Even better you think the WORLD wants him as their leader when his total experience is 143 days of service in the US congress.

Almost as asinine as Obama putting up campaign propaganda on the western wall.

What would happen if he plastered the Vatican, or the Dome of the Rock with his BS posters? It wouldn't be pretty. How about sticking his leftist rubbish all over Mt Rushmore, and the Lincoln memorial. Hey how about just plastering some obama stickers all over the tomb of the unknown soldier... ya, that would be cool.

Why do you keep calling him the "messiah"? How dumb can you be? How dumb do you think I am? I'm not some blind follower. I did my research on the guy. What's wrong with a regular guy running for president? I thought this nation wanted something fresh and not the same old white guy recycled in each party over and over ad nauseum. That's all I remember from the Bush/Kerry (hello swift boat vets questioning his service, if it isnt one thing it's another) election ...everyone was asking why the democrats didnt pick a fresher, more likable guy to be their candidate. And now they do, and those people again complain that this guy doesnt have "experience". Like sitting in a governor's mansion for 4 years or rotting in the senate for 20 years. Sounds like getting off a fresh prison term and finally hitting the big time more than it sounds like true human experience. If Obama becomes president, that's a victory to any guy/girl next door who has a dream to one day be a leader. If you told every elementary school kid that says "I wanna be president some day" that he would have to slog through 30 years of policy and legislative experience and then become rich beyond his wildest dreams to become president, no one would want to. The man just paid off his student loans a few years ago for god's sake, oh yea totally elitist tea-totling arugala eater!

That's the thing, the world does want a good leader. Why do you, in your infinite wisdom, think that the president of the United States is commonly referred to as the "LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD"!? We have so much fucking influence it isn't even funny. Why would a quarter of a million (estimated) people in Germany, of all places, gather to hear a black man speak when 90% of them have no fucking clue what he's saying? It's called influence. Why would that same country dedicate 5 pages to its main newspaper to cover the guy coming to their country? Influence. When it's world news that Obama goes to Iraq and Afghanistan to talk to military commanders and the guy looks like the president before he's even elected, that's influence. When Bush and Company start tailoring their policies to things the guy said a year ago that needed to be done, that's influence, whether it be political or not. Even al Maliki, prime minister of Iraq, said he agrees with Obama's stance on troop withdrawl, influence. Maybe the world does hope for something better to come along. Maybe Obama is just another politician. But I think I'll take a risk with this one even if it means taking a somewhat blind leap. I'd rather slam into the ground dead not knowing what happened than know exactly what was coming and watching my death as I slam into the rocks below.

Edit to add: In the words of Rudy Giuliani, "9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, 9/11, dont ever forget."

And as far as that campaign propaganda being put up on the wall, I'm sure, with 200+ thousand people in the vicinity, that it was totally an Obama campaign rep that put those posters up, even though I'm sure, lots of people in the crowds had access to campaign media. Must've been Obama, totally. Guilty as sin.

Scotsman does have a point. I mean our last president did spend the last 8 years of our country's history trying to shove our views down other countries throats. And while yes, we were the bastion against communism and all of that fun political mumbo-jumbo, I'm pretty sure we're a vesigal superpower. Why DO we have so much influence? The world had a choice between relative freedom with us or the Soviets. And the only people that wanted to live under the Soviets were hardline Party members who had govt. privelages up the wazoo. Considering the options, America was def the better choice. Now i think the tables are turned and we have serious questiosn to ask our govt. and ourselves.

But seriously Scotsman, the bit is getting old. Dems and the GOP are putting more money than we can imagine into convincing people to vote one way or another. OK, so your a right-winger that dosent particularly care for Obama or left-leaning people. Thats all well and good. I myself like the idea of being able to defend myself, and i think castle doctrine should be made federal law (castle doctrine=being able to defend yourself in your home when you're threatend with attack. defending yourself is NOT protected in my state NJ), and im pretty sure thats not on Obama's top list of things to do. But realistically, its not McCain's either.

Right wing BS got us into the mess we are in now. The people who've been in control of our energy use and our military and our policies with other countries have all been right wing, neo-conservative "lets make America important again!" businessmen. Ever read the Project for the New American Century? Look it up. It was all written who came into power with Bush. Alot of the shit thats in there "theoretically" has already happend. These are the same people who wanted to set aside money to make Space Marines. Our space program is anemic as it is and they want to set aside billions of dollars fo SPACE MARINES. We dont need any more right wing bullshit becayse every American had to put up with 8 years of crap wether we voted for Bush or not. And believe you me I think we've all had more than we can swallow of them.

I'm proud of the fact that come Nov. i gonna be voting for Obama. He's not perfect. In a perfect world we wouldnt even need government. But considering the options, I'm proud to say that hes the best one. You can think what you want, but we'd be more inclined to listen if insulting the intelligence of people who disagree wasn't part of your argument. That shit's for politicians.

edit--the Project for the New American century can be seen for freeif you're interested in reading what our leaders have been cooking up. The website was terminated recently but theres a preserved copy here: http://www.resisttyranny.com/pnac/ Edited July 25, 2008 by Apoc Genesis

[TheScotsman]

Ya, space marines. That is typical of the republicasaurus. The standard fare of "Air America" was pretty much 3 years of listening to them call everyone names, take a single quote out of context and repeatedly make fun of it. Yet I notice the average liberal gets rather offended when the table is turned. The problem with the repubs is that they went from the smaller gov't party to the part of enforcement, literally. The smaller gov't party has created the biggest single government entity outside the communist world.

I have a hard time listening to people drinking the "no drilling" kool-aid. Listen to that clown Nancy pelosi... one moment she says no drilling, and less than 24 hours later tries to force release of the petrol reserve saying that a measly 7M bbls over 3 months is going to make any difference at all. Petrol engineers quote lag time in anwar at 2-3 years on the short end, 5-7 on the long. I have yet to see an accredited petrol engineer not affiliate with either party quote the dems 10 years, or the repubs 1 year. if Democrat Nancy P says drilling won't drop the bottom out of prices, where has she been? the mkt lost 10$/bbl the day Curious George dropped the executive ban. Someone needs to tell that democrat oil prices are set by futures trading, both long and short term. an additional supply will drop the price. The only concern I would have centers around controls and binding contracts with oil companies to guarantee allowing them into areas now closed would not just turn to a free-for-all, and the average person seeing no benefits. (I remember the TAPS line, and the fact the US gov't was shipping a good portion of the product to asia. Oh, by the way, the person that instituted that great policy was a Dem, our old bud Jimmy "da-peanut" carter.)

Campaigning overseas is an insult, and looks to be nothing more than a publicity stunt. It was a lame attempt to generate some air of having a knowledge of foreign affairs.

It is funny just how little the Obamanicas actually know about him... or, worse, have chosen to ignore/justify/excuse. He has repeatedly lied about everything from his childhood... now which is it, you never attended a Muslim school, or you got in trouble for acting up in Koranic studies? You know, it's not like it matters either way, what does matter is that he LIES about it. Worse yet, he lies about his stand on critical policy. You can't trust anyone that can't take a stand and keep it.

Afghanistan scares the hell out of me.
He (Obama) wants to get more involved in that black-hole of bullshite, and it is the single biggest mistake we could make. That place is in need of many armed UAV's, and many fewer boots on the ground. It's going to turn into a mess that will leave yet another generation with damage from an unwinnable war. Go study just after Christmas, 1979 through 12 Feb 1989. With a in-country force exceeding 100,000 troops the USSR (admits to) lost 15,000 soldiers, and nearly 500,000 wounded/sick/damaged bodies, not including psychological effects. Soviet casualty counts are notoriously under reported, good sources report a more accurate number of 35,000 KIA/MIA, and 750,000 with injuries/illnesses. On top of it, that war drove large numbers of Afghans into Pakistan, sowing the seed of what we are dealing with now. So much for the history lesson... Unless the afghanis want to eliminate the remnants of terrorism from their own, the USA has zero chance of any success. We will be watching the parade of strykers, and Bradley's leaving with their tails between their legs, just like we did with the USSSR in 1989. Do you want to get drafted to go fight that mess? Want to pay for it? It's a boondogle. Move all US forces out of Iraq, and Israel has free airspace to attack Iran... you can bet it would happen in short order. Good plan Mr. O!

The problem with Obama is simple... you can't trust a word he says. I am tired of his straight-up lies. But, eh, have some kool-aid, and go hit the voting booth maybe you can stay on that kool-aid bender while the nation implodes. It's all making me damn glad I have a red passport.

[Giant Ninja Robot]

Ya, space marines. That is typical of the republicasaurus. The standard fare of "Air America" was pretty much 3 years of listening to them call everyone names, take a single quote out of context and repeatedly make fun of it. Yet I notice the average liberal gets rather offended when the table is turned. The problem with the repubs is that they went from the smaller gov't party to the part of enforcement, literally. The smaller gov't party has created the biggest single government entity outside the communist world.

I have a hard time listening to people drinking the "no drilling" kool-aid. Listen to that clown Nancy pelosi... one moment she says no drilling, and less than 24 hours later tries to force release of the petrol reserve saying that a measly 7M bbls over 3 months is going to make any difference at all. Petrol engineers quote lag time in anwar at 2-3 years on the short end, 5-7 on the long. I have yet to see an accredited petrol engineer not affiliate with either party quote the dems 10 years, or the repubs 1 year. if Democrat Nancy P says drilling won't drop the bottom out of prices, where has she been? the mkt lost 10$/bbl the day Curious George dropped the executive ban. Someone needs to tell that democrat oil prices are set by futures trading, both long and short term. an additional supply will drop the price. The only concern I would have centers around controls and binding contracts with oil companies to guarantee allowing them into areas now closed would not just turn to a free-for-all, and the average person seeing no benefits. (I remember the TAPS line, and the fact the US gov't was shipping a good portion of the product to asia. Oh, by the way, the person that instituted that great policy was a Dem, our old bud Jimmy "da-peanut" carter.)

Campaigning overseas is an insult, and looks to be nothing more than a publicity stunt. It was a lame attempt to generate some air of having a knowledge of foreign affairs.

It is funny just how little the Obamanicas actually know about him... or, worse, have chosen to ignore/justify/excuse. He has repeatedly lied about everything from his childhood... now which is it, you never attended a Muslim school, or you got in trouble for acting up in Koranic studies? You know, it's not like it matters either way, what does matter is that he LIES about it. Worse yet, he lies about his stand on critical policy. You can't trust anyone that can't take a stand and keep it.

Afghanistan scares the hell out of me.
He (Obama) wants to get more involved in that black-hole of bullshite, and it is the single biggest mistake we could make. That place is in need of many armed UAV's, and many fewer boots on the ground. It's going to turn into a mess that will leave yet another generation with damage from an unwinnable war. Go study just after Christmas, 1979 through 12 Feb 1989. With a in-country force exceeding 100,000 troops the USSR (admits to) lost 15,000 soldiers, and nearly 500,000 wounded/sick/damaged bodies, not including psychological effects. Soviet casualty counts are notoriously under reported, good sources report a more accurate number of 35,000 KIA/MIA, and 750,000 with injuries/illnesses. On top of it, that war drove large numbers of Afghans into Pakistan, sowing the seed of what we are dealing with now. So much for the history lesson... Unless the afghanis want to eliminate the remnants of terrorism from their own, the USA has zero chance of any success. We will be watching the parade of strykers, and Bradley's leaving with their tails between their legs, just like we did with the USSSR in 1989. Do you want to get drafted to go fight that mess? Want to pay for it? It's a boondogle. Move all US forces out of Iraq, and Israel has free airspace to attack Iran... you can bet it would happen in short order. Good plan Mr. O!

The problem with Obama is simple... you can't trust a word he says. I am tired of his straight-up lies. But, eh, have some kool-aid, and go hit the voting booth maybe you can stay on that kool-aid bender while the nation implodes. It's all making me damn glad I have a red passport.

I know politial arguments get rough but dude you're really condescending. Not cool in my book. I'd be more willing to read your posts without bias if you were stating facts without all the rudeness that I've come to associate with right wingers. Me thinks maybe Obama isn't the elitist in these posts. Just my 2 cents.

[NarghileNights]

if we are worried about the energy 'crisis' of finding alternative clean fuels - why dont we use all of the oil on earth and then we will be forced to create an alternative. invention comes with necessity.

talking about politics with friends sucks because no one agrees with anyone.

woah! I quoted myself twice!

[TheScotsman]

I know politial arguments get rough but dude you're really condescending. Not cool in my book. I'd be more willing to read your posts without bias if you were stating facts without all the rudeness that I've come to associate with right wingers. Me thinks maybe Obama isn't the elitist in these posts. Just my 2 cents.

Sorry man, it's not at all intentional. I have the unique ability to piss off 100% of the people 100% of the time. I know that really surprises everyone, but believe it or not! it happens.

Don't take it as an offense.

[dom209]

i think obama is going to win but if he does i think there is gunna be an assassination attempt on him

[Giant Ninja Robot]

I know politial arguments get rough but dude you're really condescending. Not cool in my book. I'd be more willing to read your posts without bias if you were stating facts without all the rudeness that I've come to associate with right wingers. Me thinks maybe Obama isn't the elitist in these posts. Just my 2 cents.

Sorry man, it's not at all intentional. I have the unique ability to piss off 100% of the people 100% of the time. I know that really surprises everyone, but believe it or not! it happens.

Don't take it as an offense.

No I don't take it personally, it's politics and like I said it can get rough. I have no problem with you Scotsman it's the tone of your arguments that bother me. We are all lovers of the hookah so none of us can be all that bad.

[The King]

Ugh, I cant believe I just read all that, haven't been on these forums in months, and this is what i chose to read.
This thread has been so much like bullshit politics, there is way to much vague comments like we need change, I think both candidates are looking to make changes. Also, there is so much more slamming the opposing candidate than giving actual positive factors about your candidate of choice.
Second, stop complaining about unemployment, then encourage people to buy a prius. Buy an american made car, then you have actually had your subtle effectect on the economy.

And yes, drill here. PLEASE. Why not become dependent on our own oil, even if it is for a short time it lasts. Hopefully we will be able to kick our super dependency on oil by the time our supply runs out. And again, it would make many jobs for our citizens.

THe answer isn't isn't raising taxes to give everyone health coverage, then out sourcing the work that makes our medication. We just need to get back to being an industrial nation. Can't keep shopping at walmart buying everything made overseas and expect our economy to get better. The more people put out of work by our consumers relying on foreign made products, the more people that you are going to have to support on your dollar through taxes.
And close the friggin borders, and start making people come to this country legally. Not saying don't let people in, but make them register as cictizens and pay taxes just like everyone else. Seriously a lot of the work we can't outsource, like construction is just being preformed by illegals who send their money back to mexico and dont pay any taxes here. I mean you can't blame them for doing it, it's our fault. Let them come work, but make them do it legally and pay taxes just like us.

Well I have to get back to work and close my shift up.

[Bulldog_916]

Like it or not though, this is an international economy now. You can send all the illegals back to Mexico, you can start buying "American", you can do whatever you want. Fords are assembled in Mexico, Chevy is the same, and Chrysler also. Ford only has 1 assembly plant in America and that one is downsizing faster than a fat woman on Jenny Craig. Stop with this "buy American" BS. Buy a Prius because it doesnt matter what brand you buy it's all made anywhere but here. Might as well make a smart choice.

Drilling wont help anything at all. The administration's own Energy Agency predicted a 20 year time scale till we see any effect from drilling here. Hard to have a liberal bias against yourself isnt it? We could be off oil by then, not trying desperately to hold on to this disgusting addiction we have to it. Anything other than moving away from fossil fuels for transportation is pure stupidity at this point.

[Apoc Genesis]

Like it or not though, this is an international economy now. You can send all the illegals back to Mexico, you can start buying "American", you can do whatever you want. Fords are assembled in Mexico, Chevy is the same, and Chrysler also. Ford only has 1 assembly plant in America and that one is downsizing faster than a fat woman on Jenny Craig. Stop with this "buy American" BS. Buy a Prius because it doesnt matter what brand you buy it's all made anywhere but here. Might as well make a smart choice.

Drilling wont help anything at all. The administration's own Energy Agency predicted a 20 year time scale till we see any effect from drilling here. Hard to have a liberal bias against yourself isnt it? We could be off oil by then, not trying desperately to hold on to this disgusting addiction we have to it. Anything other than moving away from fossil fuels for transportation is pure stupidity at this point.

+2! America's next big industry should be clean energy. We can put wind turbines our in the ocean (and we got 2 of those, plus the gulf of mexico) and in the great plains, we can put our solar power out in the west. Theres no need to be drilling now that we have the technology and most importantly the DESIRE to have clean energy. Now's the best time to be doing it, so why bother putting the capital into something that isnt goign to be worth it in thr end?

Having said that, you can't outsource your own wind and you definitly cant outsorce the sun. energy is going to be the key to the future. The whole "buy american cars!" bit is just a gimmick at this point.

[The King]

Thats fine wind and turbine energy sources are all motions in the right direction, but so is buying American. And a lot of Chevy and GM models are still made here in the US, but yeah some are made down in mexico, like the HHR.

[Bulldog_916]

If you think we should keep running our cars on oil, just look at this, read it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...2701911_pf.html

It wont matter how good the fuel economy is on any of our gas-powered cars soon. Time to make a hasty exit.

[TheScotsman]

If you think we should keep running our cars on oil, just look at this, read it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...2701911_pf.html

It wont matter how good the fuel economy is on any of our gas-powered cars soon. Time to make a hasty exit.

Man, you were on a pretty good role, except for the prius, then a like to that biased fish-wrapper.
Unfortunately hybrids are, for the most part, not up to their claims at this point, at least for we rural-dwellers in the north. I would enjoy watching any hybrid (that boondoggle tahoe included) navigate the 8 miles of what is euphemistically called a "minimum maintenance road" between the highway and my driveway... In January, at -30f, and a foot of fresh powder. How about hauling anything bigger than a beagle? I have a cartoon bubble image of trying to wedge my old 6'5" fat arse, and my 2 irish wolfhounds in a prius. Christ, man, it would look like I had just stolen a car from the clowns at the circus! All I would need is some calliope music. (provided I could get the door shut, and it would move)

We have a gov't that uses about any means possible to keep us captive to oil, and more-so to imported oil. If we really were trying to solve it, we would have a DOT that would allow some of the high mileage vehicles from overseas onto US roads. Granted, it's not a cure, but may give us the lead time we need to find a solution. The answer is not as simple as a prius (and what is with prius drivers? does a lobotomy come with the car?) Drilling won't solve it, no single bio fuel, or H2 (the gaseous element, not my truck) will ever be a magic bullet. The answer lies in some combination of them all. Frankly, I don't think Obama, or Mccain have a clue where to begin... or where it fits into the 490 billion deficit. IMNHO we won't see any action from a government that profits from oil consumption, regardless of who we elect.

On the other hand, it's GREAT to see that "bridge to nowhere" Senator Stevens indicted for lying about his bribery. Now if they do the same for "cold cash" Williams, and Larry "the toe" Craig. (says something that the indictment is for lying, but not bribery, doesn't it?)

[Apoc Genesis]

If you think we should keep running our cars on oil, just look at this, read it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...2701911_pf.html

It wont matter how good the fuel economy is on any of our gas-powered cars soon. Time to make a hasty exit.

Man, you were on a pretty good role, except for the prius, then a like to that biased fish-wrapper.
Unfortunately hybrids are, for the most part, not up to their claims at this point, at least for we rural-dwellers in the north. I would enjoy watching any hybrid (that boondoggle tahoe included) navigate the 8 miles of what is euphemistically called a "minimum maintenance road" between the highway and my driveway... In January, at -30f, and a foot of fresh powder. How about hauling anything bigger than a beagle? I have a cartoon bubble image of trying to wedge my old 6'5" fat arse, and my 2 irish wolfhounds in a prius. Christ, man, it would look like I had just stolen a car from the clowns at the circus! All I would need is some calliope music. (provided I could get the door shut, and it would move)

We have a gov't that uses about any means possible to keep us captive to oil, and more-so to imported oil. If we really were trying to solve it, we would have a DOT that would allow some of the high mileage vehicles from overseas onto US roads. Granted, it's not a cure, but may give us the lead time we need to find a solution. The answer is not as simple as a prius (and what is with prius drivers? does a lobotomy come with the car?) Drilling won't solve it, no single bio fuel, or H2 (the gaseous element, not my truck) will ever be a magic bullet. The answer lies in some combination of them all. Frankly, I don't think Obama, or Mccain have a clue where to begin... or where it fits into the 490 billion deficit. IMNHO we won't see any action from a government that profits from oil consumption, regardless of who we elect.

On the other hand, it's GREAT to see that "bridge to nowhere" Senator Stevens indicted for lying about his bribery. Now if they do the same for "cold cash" Williams, and Larry "the toe" Craig. (says something that the indictment is for lying, but not bribery, doesn't it?)

I'm still having trouble swallowing that. I mean the number is so big I have a hard time convincing myself its not imaginary. $490B in debt is ALOT of money. And no candidate is gonna be talking about any sort of solution until after the election is over, but I'm interested to see how both of these characters plan on footing Bush's bill.

For you Scotsman, no a prius probably would not be too great of a choice. But thats alright, there plenty of people in my overly developed suburban town driving 'mid-sieze' SUVs that nobody really needs. If its functional to have the power then go for it, but my fellow NJ suburbanites need to lose the SUV mentality right quick.

[Bulldog_916]

If you think we should keep running our cars on oil, just look at this, read it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...2701911_pf.html

It wont matter how good the fuel economy is on any of our gas-powered cars soon. Time to make a hasty exit.

Man, you were on a pretty good role, except for the prius, then a like to that biased fish-wrapper.
Unfortunately hybrids are, for the most part, not up to their claims at this point, at least for we rural-dwellers in the north. I would enjoy watching any hybrid (that boondoggle tahoe included) navigate the 8 miles of what is euphemistically called a "minimum maintenance road" between the highway and my driveway... In January, at -30f, and a foot of fresh powder. How about hauling anything bigger than a beagle? I have a cartoon bubble image of trying to wedge my old 6'5" fat arse, and my 2 irish wolfhounds in a prius. Christ, man, it would look like I had just stolen a car from the clowns at the circus! All I would need is some calliope music. (provided I could get the door shut, and it would move)

We have a gov't that uses about any means possible to keep us captive to oil, and more-so to imported oil. If we really were trying to solve it, we would have a DOT that would allow some of the high mileage vehicles from overseas onto US roads. Granted, it's not a cure, but may give us the lead time we need to find a solution. The answer is not as simple as a prius (and what is with prius drivers? does a lobotomy come with the car?) Drilling won't solve it, no single bio fuel, or H2 (the gaseous element, not my truck) will ever be a magic bullet. The answer lies in some combination of them all. Frankly, I don't think Obama, or Mccain have a clue where to begin... or where it fits into the 490 billion deficit. IMNHO we won't see any action from a government that profits from oil consumption, regardless of who we elect.

On the other hand, it's GREAT to see that "bridge to nowhere" Senator Stevens indicted for lying about his bribery. Now if they do the same for "cold cash" Williams, and Larry "the toe" Craig. (says something that the indictment is for lying, but not bribery, doesn't it?)

I'm still having trouble swallowing that. I mean the number is so big I have a hard time convincing myself its not imaginary. $490B in debt is ALOT of money. And no candidate is gonna be talking about any sort of solution until after the election is over, but I'm interested to see how both of these characters plan on footing Bush's bill.

For you Scotsman, no a prius probably would not be too great of a choice. But thats alright, there plenty of people in my overly developed suburban town driving 'mid-sieze' SUVs that nobody really needs. If its functional to have the power then go for it, but my fellow NJ suburbanites need to lose the SUV mentality right quick.

Oil itself needs to be ditched. China will continue to subsidize oil until their economy cant support it...HA, that's the joke. Their economy will always be able to support it with customers like us.

What's funny is that Clinton left us with a fat surplus and it was conservatives under Bush that cut taxes and spent us into debt. The "we wont raise taxes but we'll spend like there's no tomorrow" mentality is gonna get us into deep shit if it goes on much longer. McCain is even backing off his "My friends, read my lips, there will be NO NEW TAXES" statement. He's backpedaling downhill with his base.

I gotta admit, neither of these guys is a great option. But Obama is the lesser of the evils to me.

[Oneeyedziggy]

not to stereotype you all, but did someone seriously ask this in a smoking forum...

i suppose there are those who have a hookah, because they were actually in the middle east that might go mccain, but i'm sure even some of them are tired of republicans...

i'm not for either party, but i think it should alternate.. red one year, blue the next... with a little consideration to who has the majority in congress. they're all a*holes, so let them mitigate eath others' ineptitude.

[TBatcho07]

I am all about Obama,he seems like a great polotician.

[SuburbanSmoker]

not to stereotype you all, but did someone seriously ask this in a smoking forum...

i suppose there are those who have a hookah, because they were actually in the middle east that might go mccain, but i'm sure even some of them are tired of republicans...

i'm not for either party, but i think it should alternate.. red one year, blue the next... with a little consideration to who has the majority in congress. they're all a*holes, so let them mitigate eath others' ineptitude.

LOL ya i asked this on a smoking forum...lrn2seewhatforum its in...Hookahsmokers tend to be deep thinkers and love to share opinions, that was the backbone of the reason it is fun to be able to talk about controversial events. if you care.

But to shed some light on this thread the irish seem to be pro mccain. here is a recent email i recieved...

“Leave it to the Irish to cut through the crap and make the whole issue crystal clear… Thoughts from across the pond…… An email from Ireland to the brethren in the States…a point to ponder despite your political affiliation: ‘We, in Ireland, can’t figure out why people are even bothering to hold an election in the United States! On one side, you have a pants wearing woman lawyer, married to a lawyer who can’t keep his pants on, Who just lost a long and heated primary against: A lawyer who goes to the wrong church who is married to yet another lawyer who doesn’t even like the country her husband wants to run. Now…On the other side, you have a nice old war hero whose name starts with the appropriate “Mc” terminology married to a good looking younger woman who owns a beer distributorship. What in Lord’s name are ye lads thinking over there in the colonies??”

its ftw

[TBatcho07]

Hookahsmokers tend to be deep thinkers and love to share opinions, that was the backbone of the reason it is fun to be able to talk about controversial events.

[jaker29902]

Your need, aka money for healthcare, does NOT obligate me to pay for it.

(unless I caused it by hitting you in the face with a bat, in which case you probably deserved it, asshole)

[Giant Ninja Robot]

Your need, aka money for healthcare, does NOT obligate me to pay for it.

(unless I caused it by hitting you in the face with a bat, in which case you probably deserved it, asshole)

the HELL was this a reply to? LMAO! And for the record if we're discussing healthcare it should be the government's responsibility to make sure we all have access to the medical treatments we need. Can you really say otherwise in a nation that has top notch medicinal practices and technologies at it's fingertips? Shouldn't the citizens' right to live, especially live healthy, be the #1 concern...Period? Alot of other nations seem to think so. Edited August 9, 2008 by giant ninja robot

[Apoc Genesis]

Your need, aka money for healthcare, does NOT obligate me to pay for it.

(unless I caused it by hitting you in the face with a bat, in which case you probably deserved it, asshole)

the HELL was this a reply to? LMAO! And for the record if we're discussing healthcare it should be the government's responsibility to make sure we all have access to the medical treatments we need. Can you really say otherwise in a nation that has top notch medicinal practices and technologies at it's fingertips? Shouldn't the citizens' right to live, especially live healthy, be the #1 concern...Period? Alot of other nations seem to think so.

I feel the winds of a changing topic upon us....

We can do absolute wonders with the power of medicines and drugs these days. Problem is that pharmecutical companies make these drugs so [email="$@!%$%"]$@!%$%[/email] expensive that most people cant afford to pay for them. We've done research into ways to cure chronic illnesses, but even now we still dont have any solutions other than long, expensive treatments which give a hefty profit to people who probably don't need it.

Our well being puts more money into other peoples pockets than you would believe. Its sickening. Wether its socialized medicine or private companies, theyr all still getting our money for drugs that keep getting more and more expensive, and alot of times come with side effects that are even worse than the condition you're trying to fix. The wonders of modern science allow us to live longer, albiet much more expensivley than ever before. And whether you like it or not Jaker, at the end of the day we're going to fit the bill, and thats not something that you have a say in.

[Giant Ninja Robot]

Socailized medicine does not have to be expensive, look at France for a perfect example.

edit - random annecdote: we pay 7 dollars at Walmart for my wife's orthotricyclin generic as opposed to ALOT more for the brand name drug. Medicine is NOT expensive to produce and it's a crime they're taking what little we make to pay such an exhorbitant amount bacause of drug recipe copyrights. What a joke and a true travesty, and you know what we do? Just take it.

Edit #2 - Who's truly going to take our nation in the direction our healthcare system needs to go? 99% of the time it's not a person's fault they're sick so will a civilized nation really let it's citizens continue to lose their homes and even die because they cannot afford medical treatment for an illness they did not ask for? Frankly most of the people I've met that I'd like to keep around have lower incomes than the national average. Edited August 10, 2008 by giant ninja robot