Getting Screwed By Exotic Imports

[ZenSilk]

Who told you cold damaged your coals?

[Bulldog_916]

Well I am not sure this is the right place for this, but we are talking about the coals here also. The first stick I used let off a little smell while lighting it. The second one I did just now really smelled. Here are pics on the stove and my Hookah. Is this the right placement? Did I light them long enough? At first while I was posting this I did not like the taste I was getting. I am smoking Tangiers Orange Soda. I used 2/3rds of a stick. It is tasting better now though. Is this usual or did I put them on to soon?

You said certain sticks were bad/smelled bad. Edited January 19, 2008 by Bulldog_916

[bubbascigars]

I am staying out of this. All I know is luckily my exoticas are good.

Sorry Mushrat for your problems your having.

Bubba

[gaia.plateau]

i think water is a different story snoopy.. i dont think the coal acually gets wet in your vid

Nah, when I tried to get replacements for my bad boxes Gabe's first excuse was that the harsh Canadian climate must have ruined them... it was only after I showed him the water damage, and explained that other exoticas shipped here had been fine, that he and the vendor in question began to claim that customs agents wet the boxes.

What, like piss on them out of pure spite because they weren't able to tax them?

edit cause i can't spell...

Well, apparently in Canada we hire mischievous forest sprites and brownies to be our customs agents, and they enjoy causing confusion and drama.

[gaia.plateau]

Who told you cold damaged your coals?

I was told this story by Gabe himself and ::CENSORED::, I presume that Snoopy was too.

Snow and Humidity are two differrent things of course. It's not humid when it snows, it's dry as fuck. Hence the nosebleeds and dry skin so many of us get. Humidity damages the coals by adding moisture to them.

In all honesty, though, i think that fresh, dry, new coals should have been issued no questions asked with proof of purchase.

Exactly. The coals had damage from humidity, and most likely direct water contact... and we were told that it was caused by cold weather. (After I debunked this theory, ::CENSORED:: "could only conclude" that the customs agents opened up the raggedy hot sauce box he sent them in and poured water into it.

That's not a myth though, Gabe came out and said that because of this storm the boxes got fucked up. No questions asked. And he offered refunds. Mush said he didn't his good get coals, Gabe said Mush is trying to cheat him out of coals.

In some cases. Clearly not in Snoopy's, at least at first, and both my supplier and vendor tried every possibility to shift the blame. In Mush's case, he was the first person to post about the bad coals, wasn't he?

Now here's a question I don't think has been asked yet.

Gabe has expounded that only 60 cases were damaged in the storm. Let's accept that for the time being, as true.

How did he know that it was 60? Was that all that was on the ship? A cargo ship from china to the states could carry ten times that, and if he has 3 warehouses he could definitely store more. I haven't seen this explained anywhere.

For argument's sake let's assume that there were more than 60 cases - this means that he either

a ) estimated the number, which renders unjustified his argument that he already replaced a number of boxes equal to the number that were damaged... or...

b ) knew that they were damaged when he sent them out, did not notify his vendors or customers, and simply hoped that they would work fine, which makes him an extremely irresponsible and arguably stupid businessman.

Then again... maybe he just ordered 60 cases. But that seems like a pretty damn small number to me, if Mush alone ordered 8 cases and Gabe plans on being the "#1 Natural Charcoals" company in the world. Bear in mind that I am drunk as I'm Sherlock Holmsing this shit... but still!

Anyway you slice it, whether the coals were damaged shipping from China to America or from Gabe to his customers, it would have been the humanly responsible and smart business move to replace or refund all coals that could be proven damaged.

Coconut, anyone?

Edited January 19, 2008 by gaia.plateau

[Johnny_D]

Something to consider.

A 20ft Container can carry a hell of a lot more coals than 60 boxes Are you to believe that anyone in there right mind pays for a container on a ship to carry I would suggest more like in the order of 6000 boxes.

If it had that much of a leak then It's highly likely more than 60 boxes got hit. Just do a little maths

JD

[gaia.plateau]

I beat you to it JD

[mushrat]

Actually, from what I been told it was a leak at the top of the container. They figured that only the top layer had been effected. being a rectangle and by the fact you can count how many are in the first layer and multiply that by 2 to get this next part....

So they remove and trash the first layer, send everything from that layer down out, well, it turns out the second layer had problems too that weren't directly apparent when they inspected them, so now we know how THEY know how many xases are involved. Perhaps a third layer was also damaged? Would account for more people than they thought possible are having problems?

Guess we'll never know. BTW read the post with "you guys gotta read this"....

Who told you cold damaged your coals?

I was told this story by Gabe himself and ::CENSORED::, I presume that Snoopy was too.

Snow and Humidity are two differrent things of course. It's not humid when it snows, it's dry as fuck. Hence the nosebleeds and dry skin so many of us get. Humidity damages the coals by adding moisture to them.

In all honesty, though, i think that fresh, dry, new coals should have been issued no questions asked with proof of purchase.

Exactly. The coals had damage from humidity, and most likely direct water contact... and we were told that it was caused by cold weather. (After I debunked this theory, ::CENSORED:: "could only conclude" that the customs agents opened up the raggedy hot sauce box he sent them in and poured water into it.

That's not a myth though, Gabe came out and said that because of this storm the boxes got fucked up. No questions asked. And he offered refunds. Mush said he didn't his good get coals, Gabe said Mush is trying to cheat him out of coals.

In some cases. Clearly not in Snoopy's, at least at first, and both my supplier and vendor tried every possibility to shift the blame. In Mush's case, he was the first person to post about the bad coals, wasn't he?

Now here's a question I don't think has been asked yet.

Gabe has expounded that only 60 cases were damaged in the storm. Let's accept that for the time being, as true.

How did he know that it was 60? Was that all that was on the ship? A cargo ship from china to the states could carry ten times that, and if he has 3 warehouses he could definitely store more. I haven't seen this explained anywhere.

For argument's sake let's assume that there were more than 60 cases - this means that he either

a ) estimated the number, which renders unjustified his argument that he already replaced a number of boxes equal to the number that were damaged... or...

b ) knew that they were damaged when he sent them out, did not notify his vendors or customers, and simply hoped that they would work fine, which makes him an extremely irresponsible and arguably stupid businessman.

Then again... maybe he just ordered 60 cases. But that seems like a pretty damn small number to me, if Mush alone ordered 8 cases and Gabe plans on being the "#1 Natural Charcoals" company in the world. Bear in mind that I am drunk as I'm Sherlock Holmsing this shit... but still!

Anyway you slice it, whether the coals were damaged shipping from China to America or from Gabe to his customers, it would have been the humanly responsible and smart business move to replace or refund all coals that could be proven damaged.

Coconut, anyone?

[gaia.plateau]

Read, dissected for accuracy and humour, and duly commented upon.

[Ralleac]

Something to consider.

A 20ft Container can carry a hell of a lot more coals than 60 boxes Are you to believe that anyone in there right mind pays for a container on a ship to carry I would suggest more like in the order of 6000 boxes.

If it had that much of a leak then It's highly likely more than 60 boxes got hit. Just do a little maths

JD

I thought he said "cases." How many boxes come in a case? I have a box of them on my counter, and it's hard to imagine that someone who owns a bar would only order 8 of those at a time. They'd run out pretty quickly if the business the bars here in Portland get is any indication.

[smokehooka]

This is all just insane Gabe is a good man but I'm not gonna argue with anyone just wanted to put in my thoughts on the man. He runs a great business, the coals are AWESOME, and he's a Great person. Weird how this all went down.

[Ralleac]

This is all just insane Gabe is a good man but I'm not gonna argue with anyone just wanted to put in my thoughts on the man. He runs a great business, the coals are AWESOME, and he's a Great person. Weird how this all went down.

I agree. From the outside (my forum newbness) looking in, the threads and drama all over the main page is a little disconcerting. It's amazing how much trouble 5 boxes of coal can stir up.

edit: 50 boxes isn't as much of a joke, though =/ Edited January 19, 2008 by Ralleac

[gaia.plateau]

Something to consider.

A 20ft Container can carry a hell of a lot more coals than 60 boxes Are you to believe that anyone in there right mind pays for a container on a ship to carry I would suggest more like in the order of 6000 boxes.

If it had that much of a leak then It's highly likely more than 60 boxes got hit. Just do a little maths

JD

I thought he said "cases." How many boxes come in a case? I have a box of them on my counter, and it's hard to imagine that someone who owns a bar would only order 8 of those at a time. They'd run out pretty quickly if the business the bars here in Portland get is any indication.

There are 10 boxes to a case.

This is all just insane Gabe is a good man but I'm not gonna argue with anyone just wanted to put in my thoughts on the man. He runs a great business, the coals are AWESOME, and he's a Great person. Weird how this all went down.

Maybe you should read the letter he wrote.

[mathuv]

I've been using Nours for the past 7 years and they are my go to finger coal. I've tried several other finger-like coals but most of them smelt like nasty chemicals. Nours are very cheap if you look at the right places. I used up my last bag of nours last night so I'm going to buy a couple more after work today for $3.99 a bag.

Canon's comment about people jumping on trendy band wagons is a good one. Although I must say before I joined hookah forum, I never knew about Tangier's Tobacco, Starbuzz, or Mya hookahs. That is why I love this forum. A place where people with hookah love can report new ideas, reviews, suggestions, hookahs, and shisha.

+1 to that, all i knew about before this forum was nakhla, shitty quicklights and egpytian hookahs

i think water is a different story snoopy.. i dont think the coal acually gets wet in your vid

Nah, when I tried to get replacements for my bad boxes Gabe's first excuse was that the harsh Canadian climate must have ruined them... it was only after I showed him the water damage, and explained that other exoticas shipped here had been fine, that he and the vendor in question began to claim that customs agents wet the boxes.

yeas, i can imagine them there...standing with a bucket of water... "that looks like exoticas!! *splash* thatll teach those hookah smoking hippies!!"

[Snoopy1966]

Ok I work as a Metal Fabricator. Sometime we get very busy and we have to out source some of our jobs to other local companies to keep up with the demand of the Customer. When we get the parts from the other companies, they go through QA(Quality assurance) they check out ALL the parts to make sure they are good. Does it take more time on our part...yes of course, but the end line here is that the customer gets a quality part and no complaints. I have many other stories like this as well being in a manufacturing business for all my working career. Like I posted before and others have now just posted as well. That WHOLE container we be FUBARED. If they wanted to make sure some were good, they should have gone through a 100% inspection. To ship out damaged cases like they did is very irresponsible. More time for them.. yes again, but the end line again, quality and no complaints. Is it is worth the time, yes it is. If we sent out crap parts to a customer, do you think we would get their business back, highly doubtful. Or we would be on double secret triple probation. Bottom line here, they did not take necessary precautions to ensure a good product and as it was stated 100% was accounted for and no more bad coals got out, I think you are very wrong here. Not I think, I know. I have proof of purchase, and 3 boxes of shit coals out of 7, not a good ratio IMO. To blame cold weather on my bad coals was another no no.

Also I forgot to mention the day I was lighting these bad coals, my apartment manager came to my door and asked me what in the world I was doing in my apartment. I live on the 3rd floor and he lives on the basement floor, so do you think I am wrong here when the smell goes that far in my building? I also stated when I left that day and came back home, my apartment smell like a BBQ. So I think that answers your doubts Bulldog.

[RayVer]

I'm a little late on posting for this thread but here's my 2 cents...

I'm not a hookah bar or anything but as a new hookah industry reviewer I've been running about 2.5-3 boxes of exoticas a month. So far they have been great and consistent with no complaints from here. At my flavor rating sessions (when I invite a few people over to help me rate the flavors for what I'm reviewing) it's the main coal I use. I have a portable coil burner next to my hookah table running almost constantly getting exotica after exotica. I'd say so far I've run through 10 boxes of this product and havn't had a problem. I actually have 10 on order now.

However I completly understand Mush's concerns. I don't know what the wholesale on these are but I have an Idea and I sure wouldn't continue using any product that caused my business to waste a few hundred dollars. It's unfortunate that this happened. Coming from the computer review industry I've seen similar things occur.

Now I can't make a judgement on the Exotica corporation because I don't have the figures of how many boxes they replaced for free and what portion of those they began to realize were fake requests just to get free coals.

Personally as a business I would have handled this by having every request sent in with a pictures of the coals in the box along with pictures of it cracked when heating. Things of that nature.... and handle it case by case basis.

Overall I think it's a great product and unless if the entire line suddenly turns horrible then I'll keep on purchasing as always.

[mathuv]

I'm a little late on posting for this thread but here's my 2 cents...

I'm not a hookah bar or anything but as a new hookah industry reviewer I've been running about 2.5-3 boxes of exoticas a month. So far they have been great and consistent with no complaints from here. At my flavor rating sessions (when I invite a few people over to help me rate the flavors for what I'm reviewing) it's the main coal I use. I have a portable coil burner next to my hookah table running almost constantly getting exotica after exotica. I'd say so far I've run through 10 boxes of this product and havn't had a problem. I actually have 10 on order now.

However I completly understand Mush's concerns. I don't know what the wholesale on these are but I have an Idea and I sure wouldn't continue using any product that caused my business to waste a few hundred dollars. It's unfortunate that this happened. Coming from the computer review industry I've seen similar things occur.

Now I can't make a judgement on the Exotica corporation because I don't have the figures of how many boxes they replaced for free and what portion of those they began to realize were fake requests just to get free coals.

Personally as a business I would have handled this by having every request sent in with a pictures of the coals in the box along with pictures of it cracked when heating. Things of that nature.... and handle it case by case basis.

Overall I think it's a great product and unless if the entire line suddenly turns horrible then I'll keep on purchasing as always.

well for starters, you can't be a hookah bar cos theyre buildings and yeah, no reason to stop buying just because of 1 bad batch (im not taking sides here)

[mushrat]

ok, so there are 10 boxes to the case as was stated erlier. Thats 80 BOXES of bad coals I got, Shipped from California to NC with shipping alone costing me $140. So ya..I'm a bit put out.

[ZenSilk]

i htink what happeend here was this...

There was a bad shipment. Exotic Imports knew this, they may or may not have estimated the total damage to the shipment accurately. But they weren't taking any chances.

This was where i think they messed up. After hearing customers giving their coals heat, they decided to send free coals out to anyone who asked. By doing this, they set themselves up to be automatically fucked by assholes who didn't really buy them and wanted free coals, and got them. I'm sure a bunch of you here did just that, and in other places as well. SO they did get fucked, they noticed this, and they have sent out (free of charge) cases and boxes of coals OVER the total amount of coals in the shipment itself. Then after they proceeded to do this, people were STILL getting bad coals because tons of other people had been issued free coals instead of the people who actually needed them.

Exotica, IMO, was looking for a quick fix, a fix that would make everyone happy. It was a very, very, VERY VERY VERY generous move on their part, but not well thought out. I owuld be mad too if people wer ejust getting free coals off of me too. They didn't ask for pics of proof because they wanted to be quick about it, quick and easy. But it backfired.

Exotic Imports accused Mush of exploiting them for free coals. They were mad that people had been doing this, and they shouldn't have pointed fingers. The banning may or may not have been fair, we don't know that as civilians of this "Game" Gabe mentioned.

Will we, as normal people, ever know the complete story? No, probably not.

But Mushrat is an Administrator here now, he answers to basically no one. The HK representatives were online reading Mush's previous thread, but they have not said anything about it, so i'm sure that they are with Mush on this. Mushrat has complete control, so what he says is word.

If we did have a way to piece together the complete story, i wouldn't take the time because in no way is it worth my time. I've got a new box of Exoticas and some SB that needs to be smoked. Edited January 19, 2008 by ZenSilk

[mushrat]

i htink what happeend here was this...

There was a bad shipment. Exotic Imports knew this, they may or may not have estimated the total damage to the shipment accurately. But they weren't taking any chances.

This was where i think they messed up. After hearing customers giving their coals heat, they decided to send free coals out to anyone who asked. By doing this, they set themselves up to be automatically fucked by assholes who didn't really buy them and wanted free coals, and got them. I'm sure a bunch of you here did just that, and in other places as well. SO they did get fucked, they noticed this, and they have sent out (free of charge) cases and boxes of coals OVER the total amount of coals in the shipment itself. Then after they proceeded to do this, people were STILL getting bad coals because tons of other people had been issued free coals instead of the people who actually needed them.

Exotica, IMO, was looking for a quick fix, a fix that would make everyone happy. It was a very, very, VERY VERY VERY generous move on their part, but not well thought out. I owuld be mad too if people wer ejust getting free coals off of me too. They didn't ask for pics of proof because they wanted to be quick about it, quick and easy. But it backfired.

Exotic Imports accused Mush of exploiting them for free coals. They were mad that people had been doing this, and they shouldn't have pointed fingers. The banning may or may not have been fair, we don't know that as civilians of this "Game" Gabe mentioned.

Will we, as normal people, ever know the complete story? No, probably not.

But Mushrat is an Administrator here now, he answers to basically no one. The HK representatives were online reading Mush's previous thread, but they have not said anything about it, so i'm sure that they are with Mush on this. Mushrat has complete control, so what he says is word.

If we did have a way to piece together the complete story, i wouldn't take the time because in no way is it worth my time. I've got a new box of Exoticas and some SB that needs to be smoked.

Actually i've seen people talk like this, Just because I'm and admin now doesn't mean i am not responsible for what I say and do. It just means i can make changes to the forum, see a little deeper into the inner workings of the system, and hand out a higher level of Punishment. It also means I can help people with account problems, track down multiple account shills, and the like. It does NOT mean i have suddenly become perfect and all knowing. I'm still the guy who can't type to save his life, occasionally jumps to the wrong conclusion, and forgets what day it is. So, please guys, just because I can ban hammer you so hard your grandkids won't be able to get on the forum, doesn't mean I'm not the same guy I was when I was just a obsessed with hookah memeber back in the day.

[zeppyrkr]

well gabe is scared thats why he threated the whole court thing he knows that your experience and post have converted over 90% of this forum against his product, you have to know that when you say something is bad many people will believe you without trying it, its not your fault its just people are not very independent, everybody hop on the bandwagons here. mush i think you are great guy, a great admin but i have to say that you not liking a product has never lead me to the point were i wont even try it, everyone has different taste and preferences, i personally believe you have to try something before you even say a word for or against it. Edited January 19, 2008 by zeppyrkr

[thecoalition]

...i have not had problems with my 2 kilos of exoticas.
on that note, perhaps since there are literally tons of hookah suppliers that carry these coals
distribution of the bad coals became so rampant that Gabe got tired of replacing coals.
shitty yes, but hey its business. at some point he needed to cut his losses and let the vendors fend for themselves.
now if all of the bad cases were ordered from exotic imports themself it would be different.
however, i called h-s before i ordered mine and asked
"what about the 'rumours' that there are bad exoticas?"
h-s said as far as their knowledge went they had gotten all bad batches taken care of and all was well
"what if i happen to receive a bad batch?"
then we at h-s will replace the batch at no extra charge.

let alone i think everyone blaming EVERYTHING on Gabe is a little ballsy. there are alot of things that go into product pushing.
distributor - shipper - vendor - shipper - consumer
there has obviously been a problem in this line but i think that both the distributor and the vendors are to blame.

now i have had no problems and will continue to buy me some exoticas. if i receive any bad ones i will call the vendor to see what they will do for me. if they say no then i will call the distributor. if they say im screwed then i will take my business to another.
until then....h-s continues to uphold their godliness and exoticas still will be my #1 pick.

but thats my $.02

[mushrat]

well gabe is scared thats why he threated the whole court thing he knows that your experience and post have converted over 90% of this forum against his product, you have to know that when you say something is bad many people will believe you without trying it, its not your fault its just people are not very independent, everybody hop on the bandwagons here. mush i think you are great guy, a great admin but i have to say that you not liking a product has never lead me to the point were i wont even try it, everyone has different taste and preferences, i personally believe you have to try something before you even say a word for or against it.

GOOD, I'm just putting my experiences out there just like anyone else. In other posts I've told people to get them, but from a reputable dealer. I find this kind of attention a bit unnerving to be honest, I always encourage folks to try things for themselves, but I also remind them that if it turns out badly..I *DID* warn em...

[Geiseric]

His stance was very foolish from the beginning of the legal threats. It is never a good idea to even allude to legal threats without your legal council present and ADVISING YOU TO DO SO (which they would not), esoecially this early in the game. Not saying he even has a case. He doesn't. But he should be a lot more careful with the way he is throwing that around, because Mush could very well have grounds for a harassment charge.

Jumping the gun with legal threats is a waste of everyones time and just ends up blowing the situation out of proportion. It's one of my biggest pet peeves, and it is SO FUCKING CHILDISH.

[ZenSilk]

Well hey, you could get sued for anything nowadays!