Wikileaks

[mustafabey]

Times they are a changing, Back in 1971 Daniel Ellsberg leaked what became known as the Pentagon papers and that kind of put the Vietnam war in perspective. Many considered Ellsberg a hero. Now Julian Assange is in jail, his website pretty much blocked,his MF account closed, his bank account shut down. He has been charged with sex crimes and it seems like there has been alot of pressure put on everyone by the American government. The leaks apparently were caused by a low level Army Pfc who is now in the brig at Quantico(not a nice place) Assange certainly is not guilty of treason, he's not an American. The leaks detailed alot of stuff, some routine, some rather secret and sensitive and damaging not only to the government but to individual lives. So my question is what do we do with Assange? What's he legally guilty of doing? Given the fact that America's involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq do bring up the question of war crimes, and that State dept procedure is not going to endear America to the world, what should be done?

[Rani]

1) My understanding is that he was accused of rape [u]before[/u] his latest round of "leaks". He's been doing this a long time - it's only now that it's making a huge ripple in the political pond. I think his arrest and the leaks are connected only because it was brought to the forefront by the very public drama playing out. He essentially put a target on his own back and now he's whining about it being there.
2) He hacked into private email. Last time I checked, it was criminal. Am I happy with what he found? No, but it doesn't change the fact that he hacked into private emails and information dealing with national security. He should be tried for this, like any other criminal. I believe this is where the seizures of his bank accounts, etc. are coming from. They are being used to finance what is essentially criminal activity, so yep, gone. Just as it would be for your neighborhood drug dealer laundering money.
3) Any diplomat or government official involved must have absolutely had their head up their ass to be caught out this way. First rule in business (and one would assume espionage) is that don't put anything down in writing you don't want brought up at your trial later. Dumb asses all around and should be handled accordingly. And I'm pretty certain politicians around the world are holding their breath because none of them can stand exposure of what they've been doing behind the scenes, in well, forever.
4) It's impossible to know if any of what he's disclosed has been fabricated. I'm not reading any of it, because quite frankly there is a percentage of power in "exposure". It's that follow the money principle. Who wins, who gets off, who makes money off the embarrassment factor? I keep hearing that his motivation is to expose "secrets" and "lies", but really, anybody actually believe it's all coming from the goodness of his heart in "outting" this or any other government? I would call you naive if you do.
5) He's already going the way of reality TV. He'll be prosecuted, and forgotten about eventually. And politicians around the world will have learned a valuable lesson. A few years down the road we'll have a "remember so and so, he died today" moment and that will be that.

'Rani

[nun]

D woman who accused him of rape is a "friend of CIA. Wleaks took a bait, confidentials as genuine as diamond swarovski. If we all believe that the latest leaks r true who would benefit from them?

[TheScotsman]

[quote name='nun' timestamp='1291765002' post='490620']
D woman who accused him of rape is a "friend of CIA. Wleaks took a bait, confidentials as genuine as diamond swarovski. If we all believe that the latest leaks r true who would benefit from them?
[/quote]

Yet another false allegation of sexual assault to drag down a target.

Hmmm... that lady was the author of a blog about using courts and false reports as a medium of revenge. And you believe that "lady's" crap? Whatever. progressivealaska.blogspot.com/2010/08/strangest-blog-thread-yet-on-swedish.html


Uh, and it isn't rape, it's "sex by surprise". Let's call it what the charge really is, and maybe for a moment pretend we are smarter than the biased media we are getting bombed with.

The "lady" isn't denying consensual sex, but that he refused to wear a condom. He says it broke. consensual sex isn't rape, even if the feminazis would like to call it that. The case was taken over by a sweedish prosecutor that has been a long tape proponent of stricter sex crime statutes in Sweden, and has ties to a couple of strange leftist organizations. She is making a name for herself? she is a legal hitman for one or more banking concerns under threat from wiki? Who knows. I think he is a complete wanker, but in this case it's trumped-up crap, vindictive women, having a giant target painted on his back.


Think he will have a mysterious bout of suicide in jail? Bookies are taking bets, believe it or not.

[Rani]

[quote name='nun' timestamp='1291765002' post='490620']
D woman who accused him of rape is a "friend of CIA. Wleaks took a bait, confidentials as genuine as diamond swarovski. If we all believe that the latest leaks r true who would benefit from them?
[/quote]

You are aware a man is accusing him, right? not a woman. So your 411 is off already.

'Rani

[Rani]

[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1291769689' post='490625']
[quote name='nun' timestamp='1291765002' post='490620']
D woman who accused him of rape is a "friend of CIA. Wleaks took a bait, confidentials as genuine as diamond swarovski. If we all believe that the latest leaks r true who would benefit from them?
[/quote]

You are aware a man is accusing him, right? not a woman. So your 411 is off already.

'Rani
[/quote]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. He's being held on charges by TWO women, however, there's also an accusation, still under investigation by the Swedish authorities, that he was responsible for a same sex rape. That's the one that's been around for quite a while. The two women are fairly new from what I understand.

'Rani

[Canon]

What do i think of everything?

I dont like what he is doing. I don't go to the website and I don't intend to go either. He hit a nerve when he posted the report on what Americas vunerablitites are now. As far as I am concerned he is a terrorist and should be prosecuted as such. Same thing goes to the individuals who leak out the classified materials to wikileaks.

[mushrat]

AH..but we do it all the time. Ask a certain CIA operative who found herself exposed for political reasons. Endangering lives my ass. The only difference is this time it was done by someone OUTSIDE our government. Perhaps our government should be careful about what they do and who they are doing to to. Our Government has been lying to us and now they are being exposed. They want a look in my closet (computer, library records, phone records, etc) then i feel its only fair I get a look at theirs.

[nun]

Xposing war crimes is not a crime!
Http://www.collateralmurder.com

but when wikileaks started leaking reports to play emotion to approve a war against a country that minds its own business, one needs to think what went wrong with wleaks inputs.

[Yasseah]

The US government is using WikiLeaks as an excuse to begin censoring the internet and control flow of information in the near future. In the big picture Assange hasn't leaked anything that's even close to being important

[Stuie]

Assange was quoted saying something to the effect, "The truth should not be hidden from the public"

When asked his address "P. O. Box...."

Love the hypocrisy

[Rani]

[quote name='Stuie' timestamp='1291870591' post='490710']
Assange was quoted saying something to the effect, "The truth should not be hidden from the public"

When asked his address "P. O. Box...."

Love the hypocrisy
[/quote]

Let us not forget his "people" have launched retaliatory hacker attacks on MasterCard and everyone else they feel like as part of their revenge tactics for the British detaining their hero. Do I feel like we need to actually know what our government is doing? Yes.......... But honestly if we found out all of what they've been up to behind our back up until now, there would be a national collapse as we turned to rioters and marched on DC intent on hanging the lot of them. Some things need to stay buried if we want to sleep at night.

'Rani

[nun]

[quote name='Yasseah' timestamp='1291833264' post='490655']
The US government is using WikiLeaks as an excuse to begin censoring the internet and control flow of information in the near future.
[/quote]

Totally agree with you on this

[mitchard]

This information has needed to be seen my the world, and I am happy someone is getting it out there. Despite the fact that much of it is gained through illegal actions, its still needed to be seen. So much for a free nation when we are lied to and misled on a daily basis, right? Yeah, the system has been corrupt since the beginning. Its not just "us" either, its been like that since the beginning of modern civilization. But in an age like this, its more skewed that previously imaginable. If they are afraid of retaliation from citizens and other nations alike, maybe keeping their noses clean is the best course of action. But we all know thats unrealistic today.

I can't wait for the UFO files. Probably the thing I care about the most right now haha. Much of the war info was no surprise, as we all know things are much different than the media portrays it when it comes to what we are up to over there.

[joytron]

oh great now this is going to turn into an alien conspiracy thread.

[mitchard]

Oh, and the actions of Assange and Wikileaks are a whole is far from terrorism in my opinion, but anything and everything can be prosecuted that way these days. I think its hilarious that multiple US leaders have called for him to be hunted down, and in some cases, executed. Silencing the source will work the best to stop their mistakes and lies from being exposed I suppose.

[size="5"][b]ALIENS 2011[/b][/size]

[mustafabey]

Someone called what is going on regarding hacking on both sides of this mess, the first Infowar or Cyberwar. Well, better than killing people I guess. Yes, this a convenient time for the feds to get involved with policing the internet. I always loved Rahm Emmanuel's quote during the BP oil spill,"Never let a good crisis go to waste" It happened after 9/11, we lost untold amounts freedom then and continue to lose freedoms until this day(They can put a GPS tracking device on your car without a warrant, X ray vans now exist to x ray you in your car, no warrant, the TSA mess) Now they'll egt their ears into the internet. The technology is there. Obama's people want back doors in internet sites the feds can enter(without a warrant). Seems a warrant is a thing of the past. Obama's boys have continued the work of Bush in denying more and more privacy in our lives. Software is around that will be able to string all your internet e mail boxs,usernames,community memberships(say Hi to those nice FBI agents watching the hookah forum, probably secret operatives for terrorism, after all hookahs are middle eastern, etc) Now Assange is being labeled a terrorist. What does the word terrorist mean today? Anybody we want to fight with and ignore the rules of war. A commentator on al Jazeera said terrorists are freedom fighters who aren't white and Christian, but Assange is changing the meaning again. Hitler wasn't a terrorist, but Assange is, go figure. Certainly the 21st century is coming into its own.

[mustafabey]

And so it begins:..........................................[url="http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/12/08/wikileaks.students/index.html?hpt=T2"]CNN[/url]

[Chreees]

Okay, so I didn't really know wtf Wikileaks was or who Assange was, so I did a little research...

Basically they're trying to reveal the corruptness of government. Not bad. While I agree it's a pretty significant national security threat, it's things like these (the link below) that really get you worked up and make you wonder, "How the HELL can they allow this to go on?!"

http://www.collateralmurder.com/

What really got me was the third video, the soldier's story. Now you can't say that's just all made-up bullshit. Well, you can, but you'd be wrong...

[bradleyclark86]

I added WikiLeaks to my facebook and have been following them long before the manhunt began. Having said that, these are my thoughts:

1) As an American citizen, I feel I am entitled to know what my government is doing. Mush put it best with the "going through my closet" comment. I've read through several of the documents released, and I don't see anything immediately threatening. It's mainly faux pas and screw ups. It's stuff I already assumed was true, but just lacked the documentation. Instead of politicians owning up to their mistakes, their papers get marked "classified" and locked away in a vault. I prefer accountability. Nothing has been released about nuclear fire codes, Obama's day to day activities that a sniper would benefit from, or special ops movements. I know it's nothing serious because...

2) ...the CIA hasn't killed Julian Assange yet. Let's face it: the United States acts like a swinging [Richard] on a regular basis and gets away with it. We all know it. Think about all the movies you've watched where a character says "you mean the government did this?" YES! If he was as much of a threat as he's made out to be, he'd be dead right now; probably as the result of a self-inflicted gunshot wound or overdosing on painkillers. And it would be the CIA because...

3) ...Russia issued a warning that they would "play differently" if they caught Assange. Give me a break. You think the CIA would let some ex-KGB thugs have the pleasure of killing him? I don't mean any disrespect to anyone on the forum who may be from Russia, but we all know that games are being played even though the Cold War is over. If anyone is killing him, it's a man in black from Langley. But that hasn't happened yet so...

4) ...it must be the least of our worries (according to DC officials). Instead of coming out with the big guns, this is being handled diplomatically? Call me paranoid or conspiracy theorist, I don't care, but something else must be going on; something in the shadow of the WikiLeaks case.

That's my 2 cents. Hope I provided a new perspective (or a cheap laugh) to your day.

[nun]

It was all good till wleaks leaked some stupid lies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TheJPboU4c

[Tom1]

[quote name='INCUBUSRATM' timestamp='1291954974' post='490828']
Okay, so I didn't really know wtf Wikileaks was or who Assange was, so I did a little research...

Basically they're trying to reveal the corruptness of government. Not bad. While I agree it's a pretty significant national security threat, it's things like these (the link below) that really get you worked up and make you wonder, "How the HELL can they allow this to go on?!"

[url="http://www.collateralmurder.com/"]http://www.collateralmurder.com/[/url]

What really got me was the third video, the soldier's story. Now you can't say that's just all made-up bullshit. Well, you can, but you'd be wrong...
[/quote]

War is war, It's just not too pretty when you see people get shot with a high-def camera feed.

Nobody mentions the double standard of AQ decapitating live civilians and putting it on the internet to spread fear, or juba the sniper.

Also,

[img]http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/9113/akrpg.gif[/img]

That isn't a camera, don't hang out with people with rpg's if you don't want to be shot at.

[Chreees]

[quote name='Tom16689' timestamp='1292746779' post='491755']
[quote name='INCUBUSRATM' timestamp='1291954974' post='490828']
Okay, so I didn't really know wtf Wikileaks was or who Assange was, so I did a little research...

Basically they're trying to reveal the corruptness of government. Not bad. While I agree it's a pretty significant national security threat, it's things like these (the link below) that really get you worked up and make you wonder, "How the HELL can they allow this to go on?!"

[url="http://www.collateralmurder.com/"]http://www.collateralmurder.com/[/url]

What really got me was the third video, the soldier's story. Now you can't say that's just all made-up bullshit. Well, you can, but you'd be wrong...
[/quote]

War is war, It's just not too pretty when you see people get shot with a high-def camera feed.

Nobody mentions the double standard of AQ decapitating live civilians and putting it on the internet to spread fear, or juba the sniper.

Also,

[img]http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/9113/akrpg.gif[/img]

That isn't a camera, don't hang out with people with rpg's if you don't want to be shot at.
[/quote]

I admit, you make valid points. Just seems that in the video the guys weren't really doing anything, and the soldiers who killed them seemed a little trigger-happy. But hell, other things could have been going on that we don't know about...

[Allstar]

He will just be harrassed until he takes down the website. Overall to say you are entitled to the information is overkill. Some people in congress and the senate aren't even read on to all the programs out there. You have to realize that information comes at a price. That price is the lives of American military men and women serving overseas. He is an example;

Say you are reading online all these documents where you see foreign civilians (3) and foreign fighters (13) being reported dead from a bomb dropped. You start raising a stink about it because there are un-armed civilians dying. So your movement has reached the government. They hear your voice and those behind it. So now they say if even one civilian would die from it, there is absolutely no way it is allowed. No you put me in a field getting shot at by 20 foreign fighters, my team is pinned down because they have the advantage. we can call for that bomb because there are civilians around, because this village is hiding fighters. What do I do for my team of 7 guys that want to go home to see there wife and kids? Hey guys step out and shoot someone try not to get shot or call in a bomb. If you think this is impossible to happen. Talk to some military people you know. Now is it right for the chain of command to cover it up because they dropped a bomb and killed some civilians to save the lives of 7 Americans. Aren't the civilians just as guilty as the fighters since they are supporting and hiding them? But if this came public, those men and their chain of command would be put in jail for war crimes. Why you ask, because everyone has rights according to the ACLU but what happens if we are caught overseas. Head cut off on video for the whole world to see. So really stop and think about the difference, of what you would like to know and what you feel is a necessity to know.

Hope this helped to see why things are the way they are. Protection.

[mustafabey]

Deja vu The Nam all over again. When one fights a war politics matter little,survival matters, for you and those with you. A fact of war is that it takes place around civilians alot. Some guys like the human shield strategy.Story from Nam.I was an artillery forward observer up on the DMZ in 65,66and part of 67. In mid 66(operation hastings) we wereup around con thien and came across this village. The people were very nice,I was invited to the home of one guy for dinner. We played with the kids, nursed the sick and gave out candy. Nice place. Ap Khanh My. 6 months later we were back there, taking small arms fire and encountering booby traps.I was ordered to call in a mission and destroy the village. I told the CO that it was a friendly village, just then we got hit with mortars, "don't sound too fuckin friendly to me, sergeant, shoot the fuckin fire mission" Of course i did. The sad thing was the villagers probably welcomed the NVA with the same hospitality as they did us.Its survival, you don't piss off people with guns. Locals always get fucked. They grow rice,or raise camels, o rweave rugs, whatever. Government in Vietnam of Afghanistan barely touches them except to take money or food. They don't even have a dog in the fight. There might be more sympathy for their own kind, but again you be nice to the guy with the gun.