Obama Or Mccain?

[ryno]

Anything we can do as a nation to put ourselves in a better position to be globally competitive is a good move to me. If we treated clean energy like we treat military technology, we could be world leaders and become the central manufacturer for clean technology. The future will become 1. who can use the least energy, and 2. who can produce it the most cheaply. If we are the ones who manufacture the components to make that possible, we become the ones who have the tools in our hands.

I haven't read anything else in this topic, but this has to be one of the most intelliegent things I've heard in a long time.

[jezter6]

BULLDOG FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!!!

WHOS WITH ME!?!?!

After this whole thread - I can't support that, but I do support his statement.

Now, who is this weird 3rd party oil guy who's doing commercials now? I saw something about it and couldn't figure out who he was but he said he was an oil guy and was talking in front of these windmills.

Obviously he's got no chance, but he had a nice commercial and I'd love to read more about him.

Anyone know?

[Brownman18]

Yea i'd probably vote for Obama if i had those two choices (not good choices, but nothings perfect in life).


Also as for the clean energy tech, we already have this.. it's all over the web many a students have figured it out.

The issue is capital equity to finance such a large scale operation.

That is not possible when you have massive business interests in office (O I L ) (Republicans have far more business-capital behind them then democrats (again lesser of two evils theory)).

Anyway im working on that algae venture up north (as are many down south and elsewere) but somehow once this thing gets rolling i can see petro-canada sending someone to sort me out lol...


And for those that want to keep their money, why would you vote for a party which has de-valued your money over the last 8 years more rapidly then any other past administration..

I mean is it better to have $100.000 when its worth crap on the market place? or $80,000 that is back to its original value?

Money is only worth the value assigned too it, and that past administration has assigned a massive credit too it so i dunno if i would base my vote on keeping my visa $'s lol........

[TheScotsman]

BULLDOG FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!!!

WHOS WITH ME!?!?!

After this whole thread - I can't support that, but I do support his statement.

Now, who is this weird 3rd party oil guy who's doing commercials now? I saw something about it and couldn't figure out who he was but he said he was an oil guy and was talking in front of these windmills.

Obviously he's got no chance, but he had a nice commercial and I'd love to read more about him.

Anyone know?

Thomas Boone Pickens, Jr.
About '96 or '97 he started talking about peak oil, and working on LNG as a emergency replacement for mid-east-oil sourced petrol, as a fill-in while the country fast tracks to more sustainable sources. One of the few people that has seemingly put his $ to action rather than his gob. He had planned a 4000MW wind farm in the texas panhandle, but the Texas PUC has capped wind generation from the panhandle at 1000MW. (Why? who knows, it's texas... a little strange there sometimes) The project was only economically viable above 3,5000MW, and only if connected to a major grid. (forgot the particulars) Texas PUC essentially got honked off after some Republican rep managed to pass legislation allowing the transmission lines to a major grid (not the local, low $, low customer grid) and capped the output. Just why anyone would want to limit wind power completely defeats me... You are on your own figuring that one out.


He used to be strongly behind the Republicans, one of the biggest contributors, but the Mid East mess, and curious-george's driving the dollar into the bottomless pit of doom has sent him out on his own. One more comes to their senses! (And the republicasaurus still doesn't get the hint, likely never will.) Funny... this guy sorta looks like our commander-in-cheese... maybe a bit brighter though... coincidence?

[Brownman18]

BULLDOG FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!!!

WHOS WITH ME!?!?!

After this whole thread - I can't support that, but I do support his statement.

Now, who is this weird 3rd party oil guy who's doing commercials now? I saw something about it and couldn't figure out who he was but he said he was an oil guy and was talking in front of these windmills.

Obviously he's got no chance, but he had a nice commercial and I'd love to read more about him.

Anyone know?

Thomas Boone Pickens, Jr.
About '96 or '97 he started talking about peak oil, and working on LNG as a emergency replacement for mid-east-oil sourced petrol, as a fill-in while the country fast tracks to more sustainable sources. One of the few people that has seemingly put his $ to action rather than his gob. He had planned a 4000MW wind farm in the texas panhandle, but the Texas PUC has capped wind generation from the panhandle at 1000MW. (Why? who knows, it's texas... a little strange there sometimes) The project was only economically viable above 3,5000MW, and only if connected to a major grid. (forgot the particulars) Texas PUC essentially got honked off after some Republican rep managed to pass legislation allowing the transmission lines to a major grid (not the local, low $, low customer grid) and capped the output. Just why anyone would want to limit wind power completely defeats me... You are on your own figuring that one out.


He used to be strongly behind the Republicans, one of the biggest contributors, but the Mid East mess, and curious-george's driving the dollar into the bottomless pit of doom has sent him out on his own. One more comes to their senses! (And the republicasaurus still doesn't get the hint, likely never will.) Funny... this guy sorta looks like our commander-in-cheese... maybe a bit brighter though... coincidence?

I build oil rig and Oil refineries, i make my $ off the stuff flowing through it, then i manipulate that market to make more $!!!



Problem with wind and algae is

I make wind turbine then i charge for............................ maintenance? lol Wind would be their and its a natural process which would mean more or less FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE after start up costs, all you have to worry about is maintenance..

[Bulldog_916]

Bush knows what he's doing in the case of oil right now. The call for more drilling, especially off my coast and the Texas coast and the Alaska refuge is a political dare. This puts democrats in a very precarious spot as has occurred so many many times with this Congress. Force them to move one way or the other. Move against drilling and it looks like you're thumbing your nose at the little guy paying 65 for a fill-up. Move pro-drilling and get reamed by the left and most coastal states. Lose lose.

I think this drop in oil prices is only merely a correction. Everyone on the news assumes that it has something to do with Bush calling for more drilling and that is somehow psychologically getting traders to sell. That isnt true at all. With all the calming in rhetoric between us and Iran, there isnt nearly as much tension as there once was. We are finally doing what Bush railed against as "appeasement, similar to Europe's appeasement of Hitler" and that is negotiating.

Distillates like gasoline are now at basically surplus levels and crude oil just reported an unexpected rise in inventories. Gasoline is actually being supported by a false wall right now. Refiners arent making much money off the refining process because crude is so expensive, so they have to raise the price of gasoline to be able to make a profit. But if you cant sell the gasoline, it just sits. If oil does crash, gasoline will crash even harder and for a longer period. We're in for another record high in crude soon and you can bet on that. All that would have to happen is for there to be another pump down in Nigeria or a strike in Venezuela for prices to skyrocket back up. We wont see a noticeable change in inventory from drilling here for about 20 years. It's just completely unrealistic to call for drilling to give even long term relief. That's why getting ahead of the world game in energy is so important. We could be the superpower we once were, but we cant do it depending on other countries for our most critical infrastructure element, especially terrorist-supporting states like Saudi Arabia.

And guys, thanks for the kind words. I just want to see us do something right.

[esheg4ever23]

[Brownman18]

Its alot about also just using your vote to say i want a change moreso then anything..


Theirs a good chance nothing could change but at least then it will all be out their in plain site, and the naysayers will see the fault in the system.


Ron Paul IMO was the man for the job but he failed to get enough support, he didn't have the means to win, doesn't mean all is lost though.

Gotta stay positive......


It is a sad state of affairs though all around..

Canada isn't fairing much better..


http://www.ronpaul.com/

The signal is given though, Ron Paul's backing comes alot from service men, so if a change does not occur should their be a change in house which is more so symbolic from the R to the D at least it leaves a chance for change into something better with means we readily have available.

If this does not occur at least their will be many upset service men and maybe that can inspire some pressure for change. One can only hope for the best.



Theirs also more news out this time around and the 2002 and probably following elections were rigged...

http://news.cnet.com/E-voting-machines-aga..._3-6115873.html


I also read on another article that one of Cheney's business partners is trying to get a hostile takeover of Diebold corp.


http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/03/d...se-contrac.html


Just gotta stay positive!

But a vote for Republicans is a total waste...


Mccain can always call on his evangelicals to light the fire again so to speak

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080717/ap_on_..._evangelicals_3

But some religious conservatives wonder if McCain even has the potential to stir their passion. "Some said he was the safe alternative," Zylstra, the college president and talk show host, said. "He just doesn't ignite the fire."

Lol ignite the fire.. these evangelicals .... sure do seem like they don't follow Jesus's message at all...



Hopefully this time people won't be lead astray by their shepperds....

I can go further on this with a video lemme scrounge it around.

I'm also not anti-christian by any means, im anti-christ punchers!


Edit:

Ok here it is im not too up and up on my Christian bible area knowledge as to what went down but its an interesting perspective.

I also don't believe in an apocalypse either as most of them are always man made, one could argue that WW2 was an apocalypse its all perspective, as could those in the crusades period dieing on both sides its all a matter of perspective.

http://www.john1429.org/video/antichrist/Antichrist-128.html
Edited July 18, 2008 by Brownman18

[TheScotsman]

Obama's problem is the press, and the congress. The press, only because people are starting to realize that when one national news program mentions the name Obama more than 174 times last week, and McCain only 43, we are having Obama shoved down our throats by the media. People in my age group (somewhat less than the fossils in the smithsonian... but not by far.) wholly resent it. Believe me, we notice the bias, and as psychology would have it, don't like it. After all, even with all that bias, and unpaid political advertisement the gap between the two is negligable.

Then look at the Dem controlled congress... Have you seen a more useless collection of wankers in your life? The Dem controlled house now officially has THE lowest public opinion ever... even lower than GW's, as amazing as that seems to be. Short of FISA, and renaming a bunch of postal buildings they did damn little. And the Dems call that change?! November is well into heating season here in the tundra... all that no drilling is going to become a coffin nail when people go to vote, after paying $2000.00 to fill that propane tank for a month and a half. There is no change there, just the typical actions of a useless congress proving yet again the need for term limits.

On the good side, the less the gov't does, the better off we all are.

[Bulldog_916]

You have to remember though that drilling wont do shit for us for at least 10 years. Talking about drilling is great but would oil companies actually want to do it? They have leases all over this damn country and they dont do shit with them. What makes you think opening the ANWR, California's coast line, or the Gulf of Mexico would do anything at all for us? As an oil company, do you actually want to get prices down when your profits are looking so good? And if you do get oil out, it goes into the global market, doing relatively little on the supply side. Drilling for more oil is a pipe dream. Better left to wait for Iraq's production to go up as opposed to drilling here.

And this Congress is a lame duck because of the president and the republicans stonewalling any legislation coming through the committees. The dems only have a 1-person majority in the Senate and dont have enough votes in the house to over ride a presidential veto. Republicans are playing the party line and any conservative democrats will usually side with them, voting down a lot of progressive legislation. Wait till January when we can actually start moving in A direction, maybe not the right direction, but in some direction.

[jezter6]

That antichrist video was some great conspiracy theory stuff!!

[nestormakhno]

Nestor - It was Old Dirty Bastard.


May the Thirsty Love Guzzlah R.I.P.

Oh, you are precious. I've been trying to remember who it was for AGES. Thanks, dude.

[nestormakhno]

2: McCain is a flip flopper. There should be another group of "Swift Boat Vets" just to point out his hypocrisy.

3: Military experience doesnt = foreign policy plans and a good sound blueprint to quelling the world's fall into disorder.

4: It isnt the social stances he's taking that are of concern. It is his further appointment of a more conservative Supreme Court than we have at this very moment (which is majority conservative). They will be the ones revisiting social decisions by past Supreme Courts trying to overturn Roe v. Wade and ban gay marriage outright along with others.

5: Obama's tax plan is designed to roll back the tax cuts the Bush Administration put in place, it does not add any new taxes on the upper class thus far. It also seeks to lower taxes on the upper middle, middle and lower classes. Those plans may cancel eachother out, but in the end, those who can afford to pay more should pay more. It would suck, but it helps the majority and would restore the middle class.

Damn, I wanna go on but I'm too lazy. Visit realclearpolitics.com to set your own record straight.

McCain is a flip flopper... and you call him a hypocrite. Ok, let's evaluate the logic of that statement. Not that I don't agree that he is a republocrat, I am just pointing out the fact you chastise him whil you obamites refuse to look at your own messiah.
http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/story.html?id=633140 -on Iraq the Obamanation flip flops
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/07/08/an-o...n-negative-ads/ -on negative ads Hussein does the 2-step
http://www.courant.com/news/opinion/editor...0,6908178.story -On campaign financing.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9982898-7.html -on warrant-less wire taps
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tim-graham/20...s-gun-flip-flop -On firearms ownership
(Not to mention he LIES about it... http://youtube.com/watch?v=DhL8aeIsTEo&feature=related )
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/05/05/obama...anol-flip-flop/ -on ethanol
http://controlcongress.com/uncategorized/o...p-flop-on-nafta -On NAFTA
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/200...06/1119341.aspx - On Jerusalem
http://www.rightupfront.org/2008/04/obama-...ev-wrights.html - On Rev Wright
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/...1779544,00.html -On his Flag Pin Fiasco.

Obama=flip-flop express!




Not to mention he states he is embarrassed Americans go to Europe and can't speak the native language... but states it without even having a proper mastery of English! Complete elitist jackass! Some hero you have there.


The supreme court can't "ban" anything. They CAN declare it unconstitutional, which is a long way from a ban. (It is also their job) Calling it a "ban" is a deceiving tactic.

You don't seem to grasp just what B. Hussein Obama's tax plan is, nor what it does. If you have ANY idea a dumbocrat is going to reduce your taxes, you are out of your mind... or just plain broke. Obama's "plan" (as long as he doesn't flip-flop on it, or, wait... just plain lie about it.) would save the v.low/low income a bit, but they already don't pay much in taxes. (It's really more of an income redistribution plan than a tax plan) The one that gets nailed is the normal suburban-dwelling-middle/upper middle class family. Not that I think McCain is any better, his plan is a bet better for the middle-class family, but gives the farm away to the upper income groups. Read the horror for yourself http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/.


Real clear politics is 51% owned by Forbes, also a partner company with Time, and CNN. Could you find a more biased source?

THe problem with this election is that I can't bring myself to want to vote for a wishy-washy McCain, but there is no way I can vote for a blabbering bag of lying wind like Obama. Voting for a 3rd party is a vote for Obama... so I am stuck voting for McCain, and I am horrified by it.

Just the fact that you cited Michelle Malkin's website forces me to discount your entire post out of hand. Hilarious. Just take a shortcut next time and cite Fox News directly, at least then I'll know not to waste my time reading it.

I'll agree that this country is fucked either way. In some areas I really dont like Obama, but in the ways he compares to McCain, I have no choice but to vote for him. And I am an independent, regardless of my defense of Obama. I dont like either democrats or republicans. But Obama is the lesser of 2 evils to me. I will be dancing in the streets if he wins.

1. On the "attack ads" they are all policy based. He pledged not to do any dirty negative campaigning. Not questioning McCain's service, not questioning his character or his dedication to this country. Come on.

2. The Iraq thing wasnt even a flip flop, if you look at his past statements you'll know that he said that the whole damn time. He wont make any irrational withdraws until he knows the conditions on the ground. He said that from day one.

3. The only reason McCain is taking the public financing is because he knows he cant raise the money Obama can. If he could raise more than him, he'd decry public financing, too. That's a draw as far as I'm concerned.

4. The whole flag pin thing is petty. But the repukes would bone him in the ass if he didnt do it. And they would impugne his character till the bitter end. That kinda shit loses votes. It's stupid to even cite that whole issue. Patriotism shouldnt even be on the table in this election. But the repukes would crucify him if he didnt cave a little bit, so who really loses that one?

5. On NAFTA, he said they'll use the hammer of a possible 'opt out' to help retool and renegotiate NAFTA on the environmental issues and labor standards. On the recent video, they are talking about a full "pull out" from NAFTA unilaterally without rhyme or reason. They didnt even mention why we would pull out of NAFTA in that video. The "flip flop" is nebulous at best, non-existent at worst.

6. On the 2nd Amendment, Obama said he has always supported people's right to bear arms, but wants to retool the laws to make stricter policies on people who own guns in urban areas as opposed to rural areas. Maybe he did flip-flop on the DC handgun ban.

7. On Rev. Wright, he did his best to quell this story while still remaining faithful to a place he attended church at for 20 years, give the man a little credit. Maybe he did do some politically expedient separating but at that point, it was split off from it or have that lingering question in the air for 7 months. That isnt flip-flopping, that's putting a non-issue to bed. I would have done the same thing.

That's 1 out of 10 so far. You're batting .100 there chief.

Just another liberal freak making excuses for Obama.
I guess if you are right that is why even the liberal press is coming down on him for it.

Just the fact you think Hussein supports gun rights tells me you really have no grasp on his true voting record. Go look at his 1996 candidate survey... in his own hand he wrote that he favored a ban on handguns. Now he "supports" our constitutional right. How elitist can he be? It's not his place to support, or deny what the constitution granted. As much as people think he is the messiah, he isn't. He has no ability to overrule a right granted by the constitution. Evolving policy is candidate code for "got caught in a flip-flop"


In Feb '07 he said: "That's why I have a plan that will bring our combat troops home by March of 2008." Now he says he is "refining" his policy. For the love of it all, if he has been so obviously ill-informed as a voting member of the senate he should be tossed out, and charged with treason for admittedly not knowing what he was voting on when he was making life-changing decisions with his head up his arse.

How about... Obama on abortion: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer/20...item-about-rove

No, it's not a flip-flop... it's a policy update, right?

Obama campaign during the primaries:

To be clear: Barack will support a filibuster of any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies.

This is Obama now:

My view on FISA has always been that the issue of the phone companies per se is not one that overrides the security interests of the American people."

And you call that not flip-flopping. Ok, keep deceiving yourself.
Liberalism is a mental disorder... we are seeing proof.

As for Obama's tax plans, he stated that he could close loopholes in the corp tax code that cost the gov't 1 trillion in corp taxes. You know, that would be easier to believe if the ACTUAL corp taxes collected in their entirety were not just 372 billion in '07. Now that is some loophole, eh? Typical of obamessiah, when you hear his noise, the devil is in the details... but his BS works good to blindside the uninformed. He wants to take another 7 million senior citizens off the tax roles, Guess who will be paying more for them? That would be YOU! Just what the system needs, some age discrimination injected into it. If you are in the <40 crowd you are already to get flooded with baby-boomer retirement bills to pay, What is a few more? After all that FICA line on your pay-stub is just too low of number. And, best of all... cut taxes on people who are not paying any taxes in the first place. How does that one work?

Let's hear more excuses. I need a good laugh in the AM.

As someone who is going to have to live with the decisions that are being made, let me just say that I'm incredibly disappointed in how the Democrats are handling this election. The Republicans had a few potential candidates, but now that they have their man, they're standing by him to the end. Even if his name is G.W. Bush pt. II

The Democrats on the other hand are so bitterly divided over this Clinton thing with all of these calls of sexism in the primaries, which is absolute nonsense, that a lil under half of Clinton supporters are saying they wont support Obama at all.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/04/clinton.poll/

She had a good run and she almost made it, but for fucks sake this is ridiculous. Half the voters of an entire party not voting because their candidate lost? At this point, conservatism is not working because there are no real conservatives left, and there is nothing left to conserve. These stupid issues such as gun rights and birth control are not going to mean jack squat in the long run, because in the long run we need to deal with our economy and the environment.

And you know what? Fuck terrorism. Thats right, I said it. The "threat level" means absolutly nothing to me. So we havnt had any more parts of New York come crashing down around us. It hasnt solved any of the actual problems around WHY all of this shit has happened these past few years. We spend so much time and effort trying to find these needle-in-a-haystack nutjobs who want to blow up planes or buildings that we're missing the bigger picture of we are phenomenally screwed if SOMETHING dosen't change for the better.

Because things are a-changing. And they arent good. We're losing more freedoms every year and it dosent seem like aybody gives a hoot because it isnt affecting them directly. At this point there are no more conservatives in government left. You can terorrism-this and Ismalic fascism-that all you want, but dosent matter in the least bit if we cant afford to pay our bills at the end of the month. And let's be real folks, its getting REAL hard to pay the bills what with prices going up and all of the jobs going off to god-knows-where.

And what say does the new generations have in all of this? A war that McCain had said he would keep fighting for 100+ years???!! You talk about paying for this war like generations from here to 2109 are going to sit back and smile and pony up money that YOU *meaning the people who voted for this goddamn war* should be paying. Let me tell you I would much rather take my business to Switzerland and renounce my citizenship than pay one goddamn cent for this insanity. It's throwing away money that could be used for something thats actually useful because lets be honest, Iraw hasnt given us anything excpet plenty of heated discussisons and lots of dead kids, American and Iraqi. Clearly my vote isnt going to count, but I'm fairly sure my dollars will.

Yes im angry. Our country is falling to pieces culturally, morally, economically, politically, and totally once the business people have their way with us, and it dosent seem like my generation has much of a say in it. But mark my words anyone out there who think that McCain is going to bring America back from this brink. You can attack "Hussein" as much as you please, but that wont change the fact that you folks made this bed, and by god you're going to sleep in it.

About the Clinton thing: a lot of Clinton supporters, myself included, felt very strongly about her ability to win the presidency. The logic behind not supporting Obama is that you're supposed to support a candidate you like. For a lot of people, party loyalty is less important than seeing an agreeable candidate win. I would've voted for Clinton had she been the nominee, but I refuse to vote for Obama or McCain. I guess I'm sitting out "the most important election ever omg!!!!11," although that's what they said about '04, and '00, and '96..... Vote or die, kids, because Puffy says so.

[NarghileNights]

bush is an idiot as a person. the choices he has made have been the right choices.

obama wants to cut all defense funding and development and start integrating church into the state. does that not scare anyone?

if we are worried about the energy 'crisis' of finding alternative clean fuels - why dont we use all of the oil on earth and then we will be forced to create an alternative. invention comes with necessity.

talking about politics with friends sucks because no one agrees with anyone.

[TBatcho07]

Personally I think Obama,except for the whole church thing...yuck

[nestormakhno]

As an aside, people kept asking for proof of Obama's flip-flopping. Read the following and weep:

http://www.slate.com/id/2194758/

(By the way, by most accounts, Slate could be considered "liberal media," and even THEY took notice of their Golden Boy's inability to keep to a side)

[boulderkid303]

Im voting Obama.

[TheScotsman]

Do you actually LISTEN to him speak ever? I don't mean the speeches written by someone else, and read from a teleprompter, but listen when it's him talking. In 5 minutes I counted 55 Umm's and uhh's. In that press conf yesterday. It's become a bit of a twisted hobby, count Obama umms, and ahs. That's some Golden tongue your messi-uhh has! He sounded like an escapee from a group home of some sort.

Notice no questions/statements about Fatah? Seems the Obama campaign told the press they are not to ask any Palestine/Fatah questions at all.



Maybe we should change his name to Uhhbama. It would be truth in advertising! Edited July 23, 2008 by TheScotsman

[SuburbanSmoker]

Maybe we should change his name to Uhhbama. It would be truth in advertising!

lol owned.
now where would mccains be?

[Apoc Genesis]

IMO Playing the name game makes it too easy to demonize McCain and Obama without paying attention to the issues. Who cares if McCain is old or Obama's middle name is Hussein, whats important is how they are going to head the executive branch of our country.

Now I'll admit: after having to grow up under a Bush presidency, in my mind i think "To hell if they think that another Republican is going to get into office for another 8 years". Alot of it is seeing how my town is becoming more and more stressed as people leave and houses get foreclosed on, the never ending talk about how bad the economy is getting. Not once have I heard people really talk in fear about terrorists. Probably Bush's presidency is going to affect my voting habits just as much as Jimmy Carter's put so many young people to run to the Republicans back in the 80's.

I know also that most countries in the world can't hold a candle to us when it comes to what we can do and say without having to worry about reprisals. Yeah we can get flamed on the internet for our unpopular opinions, but after seeing that whole bit about whats going on in Zimbabwe, I appreciate that I can vote for the opposing party without having a GOP supporter knock on my door with a billy club in hand.

But taking that into account, that dosen't mean that we are perfect. Our entire economic system revolves around the conspicuous consumption of resources, even to the point where its completely wasteful. We design our consumer goods to barley last a few years before they have to be thrown away and replaced. It makes jobs and it keeps our paychecks coming, but look at what it's doing to our world?

Laws and policies are changeable. And they always will change when people get sick of them and the leaders that put them into place. The Patriot Act is not immortal and it won't be. But as of right now, we can't really change where we live. Our world is not a consumer good that can be thrown away and replaced. And I don't think that McCain sees it like that. I'll say this much: he'll make a MUCH better commander in chief than Obama. But we arent going to be prepared for these changes in our environment that are happening right now. All you need to do is look at Katrina or Iowa or the fires in California or the tornadoes in the South to know that mother earth is going to have us bent over a barrel rather soon if we dont figure out how to adapt.

[NarghileNights]

thank you for an extremely intelligent post.

[Bulldog_916]

There will be no adaptation under a McCain presidency. He's advocating drilling on your coast and mine! I say we eat the cost of gas until we can get viable alternatives in place. The more expensive it gets, the more we have to eat it and the faster we demand the alternative. Sure we wont end up with a country-wide one size fits all solution. But who is ever going to want to drive cross-country again under these circumstances? Not a chance.

[Apoc Genesis]

Hydrogen car cross country!!!

Eating the price of gas is exactly what we're doing now. But its putting alot of families over the edge when it comes to finances. Not to mention the cost of shipping is going up and up with diesel (i think everyone here notices that ><).

At the end of the day, Obama is probably going to be just another politician. But what he WONT be is a politician who has special interests in energy and private military contractors like Bush and Cheney respectively. And considering where the Dynamic Duo lead this country in the past 8 years, that'll be a welcome breath of fresh air.

[Giant Ninja Robot]

I agree with Apoc. Also, the whole energy deal will be remedied out of self-preservation at some point. The question is when? I have very little faith that McCain will do what's necessary NOW to deal with our struggling economy/environment. I tend to end up thinking to myself "okay which is the lesser of 2 evils?" No candidate will be perfect. No one man will save us. Men are imperfect and have faults by nature. So I guess it's fortunate that we have a candidate in Obama who is free from much of the special interest groups' influence and has pledged to keep his candidacy and eventual presidency as transparent as possible. Will that happen? I do not know. Is there a greater chance of a honest leadership in this nation with Obama? Fuck yes there is. Myself also growing up in the Bush era, even having voted for him my first time in 04 (doh), I am welcoming the breath of fresh air that is Obama.

By the way it's bullshit logic to accuse Obama supporters of being naive. It's called hope and I would think that in this chaotic, messed up world we live in that hope would be welcomed by anyone who isn't completely absorbed in their own interests. I wouldn't mind living under a presidency that has the intangible of making a nation's people feel good about the direction they're headed in. And to head that off before you McCaininites even try, no I'm not blindly following Obama nor am I a bandwagon jumper. I just happen to care that our country is depressed and demoralized and DO NOT want another 4 years of the same. We could use some positive leadership.

Hydrogen hybrids FTW!

[Bulldog_916]

We have to also remember that it would take up to 20 years to cycle out gas-only autos. Waiting is just pushing back the period of time we are hostage to oil. With China's growth exploding and India on the same path, as well as Russia retaking a seat on the world power stage, we're looking at 8 dollar a gallon petrol sooner rather than later. The faster we get away from that market, the sooner we can lead the world away from it with authority. Obama's speech today in Germany (over 200,000 people in attendance) showed that the world is ready for a solid leader. That's where we have to be. Leading the world with influence and proving that the impossible can be possible. We can manufacture that new level if we choose to. China wont have the technology we have in the field of hybrids, electric cars, hydrogen power, solar and wind technology. We have to stop researching it and start manufacturing it. Cheap energy will draw any world power to it, including China and India. All they have to do is buy the turbines and put them up. Then once they are connected to the grid, maintenance is the only cost. It'll be cheap for them, as all labor is. This isn't a 30 year solution, it has to be a 10 or less year solution to really turn the tides of climate change and habitat destruction.