Economics

[John Stuart Mill]

I myself am a socialist. As Hobbes rightly asserted, "For as to the strength of body, the weakest has strength enough to kill the strong…For prudence, is but experience; which equal time, equally bestows on all men…" While I agree some innate differences in intelligence and strength exist, we are still essentially equal. How than do we justify such great inequity? The wealthy are made thus by mere circumstance. Edited March 26, 2008 by John Stuart Mill

[MechAnt]

Traditional Laissez-faire.

"The man who is not a socialist at twenty has no heart, but if he is still a socialist at forty he has no head."
- Aristide Briand

I guess the French were smart way back when


Luckily, I had the great fortune of being taught by Robert L. Crouch. He was part of the Economic advising board that invented Reganomics. Although I may not agree with everything he says, he keeps a raw, conservative look at economics like it should be. Edited March 26, 2008 by MechAnt

[gaia.plateau]

This is an expansive question that I don't think is appropriate to a poll... For every region/country in each era there is a 'best' economic system, so to "profess" one system without context is kind of ridiculous.

If you're asking where our heart is, I guess I would answer Anarchic Socialist. I don't think that any region is ready for this now, and maybe never will be, but I don't think that states are a good thing nor long for this world. Edited March 26, 2008 by gaia.plateau

[Johnny_D]

I'm not really sure i understand all the poll options. But I guess I would tick the first.... I think that's what we have in the uk....

JD /Dumb

[Scheetz]

Limited Gov control is the answer.

[J-thehookaholic]

we're a little more toward the socialist side you would think.

I say limited gov't control, less beaucracy, cut back on military commitments and foreign aid.

[TheScotsman]

Poll looks like something from some liberal organization, wording is meant to steer voters.

That said, I agree with Scheetz.

[John Stuart Mill]

Poll looks like something from some liberal organization, wording is meant to steer voters.

That said, I agree with Scheetz.

What do you feel is a misrepresentation? I tried to use reasonable definitions, but I suppose some bias is inevitable. I will attempt to address any concerns. Edited March 27, 2008 by John Stuart Mill

[John Stuart Mill]

I attempted to mealy state the goal of each ideology. The effects are too subjective to include.

[TheScotsman]

Poll looks like something from some liberal organization, wording is meant to steer voters.

That said, I agree with Scheetz.

What do you feel is a misrepresentation? I tried to use reasonable definitions, but I suppose some bias is inevitable. I will attempt to address any concerns.

Invisible hand? Come on, everyone knows there is no "invisible hand" so anyone picking that category is instantly deemed a moron, or selecting it out of an attempt to invalidate the survey. To be accurate a survey needs to be neutrally worded... something not all that easy to do. Usually those trying to skew results do so in selecting the question according to their taste. It would be like putting "expects to live off the work of others through governmental wealth redistribution." behind socialist... which, while not at all inaccurate, would twist the results.

[John Stuart Mill]

Poll looks like something from some liberal organization, wording is meant to steer voters.

That said, I agree with Scheetz.

What do you feel is a misrepresentation? I tried to use reasonable definitions, but I suppose some bias is inevitable. I will attempt to address any concerns.

Invisible hand? Come on, everyone knows there is no "invisible hand" so anyone picking that category is instantly deemed a moron, or selecting it out of an attempt to invalidate the survey. To be accurate a survey needs to be neutrally worded... something not all that easy to do. Usually those trying to skew results do so in selecting the question according to their taste. It would be like putting "expects to live off the work of others through governmental wealth redistribution." behind socialist... which, while not at all inaccurate, would twist the results.

Adam Smith himself coined the term "invisible hand". It's not intended to indicate something in actuality, but represent a process of supply and demand. I believe proponents of Laissez-faire still use the same analogy.
Edited March 27, 2008 by John Stuart Mill

[AKammenzind]

Anarcho-capitalism FTW. Everything I'd want, plus in a purely voluntary society those who wanted to live or work in a commune or something of the like run by their peers rather than a huge, powerful socialist system created (and enforced) by the government would be perfectly able to do so. Everyone wins.

[TheScotsman]

Poll looks like something from some liberal organization, wording is meant to steer voters.

That said, I agree with Scheetz.

What do you feel is a misrepresentation? I tried to use reasonable definitions, but I suppose some bias is inevitable. I will attempt to address any concerns.

Invisible hand? Come on, everyone knows there is no "invisible hand" so anyone picking that category is instantly deemed a moron, or selecting it out of an attempt to invalidate the survey. To be accurate a survey needs to be neutrally worded... something not all that easy to do. Usually those trying to skew results do so in selecting the question according to their taste. It would be like putting "expects to live off the work of others through governmental wealth redistribution." behind socialist... which, while not at all inaccurate, would twist the results.

Adam Smith himself coined the term "invisible hand". It's not intended to indicate something in actuality, but represent a process of supply and demand. I believe proponents of Laissez-faire still use the same analogy.

The only way a poll such as yours is ever even remotely close to accurate comes about when the description/wording of each choice is made by someone fitting that category. In the example at hand it was easy to pick your position in the socialist camp, as the wording got fluffier the closer to that position a particular selection was. There is really nothing wrong with it, it's just human nature. If I had wrote it, the points of capitalism, self sufficiency, and personal accountability for your own choices/actions would have been more the bias. Who cares who coined any term? That is a silly way to justify a bias. One could also quote Sir W. Churchill “Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.” in describing your socialistic position... Or better yet, let's use Lenin's statement... “The goal of socialism is communism.”

A true socialist in Colorado? You must be in Boulder, or you are very lonesome indeed.

[John Stuart Mill]

Poll looks like something from some liberal organization, wording is meant to steer voters.

That said, I agree with Scheetz.

What do you feel is a misrepresentation? I tried to use reasonable definitions, but I suppose some bias is inevitable. I will attempt to address any concerns.

Invisible hand? Come on, everyone knows there is no "invisible hand" so anyone picking that category is instantly deemed a moron, or selecting it out of an attempt to invalidate the survey. To be accurate a survey needs to be neutrally worded... something not all that easy to do. Usually those trying to skew results do so in selecting the question according to their taste. It would be like putting "expects to live off the work of others through governmental wealth redistribution." behind socialist... which, while not at all inaccurate, would twist the results.

Adam Smith himself coined the term "invisible hand". It's not intended to indicate something in actuality, but represent a process of supply and demand. I believe proponents of Laissez-faire still use the same analogy.

The only way a poll such as yours is ever even remotely close to accurate comes about when the description/wording of each choice is made by someone fitting that category. In the example at hand it was easy to pick your position in the socialist camp, as the wording got fluffier the closer to that position a particular selection was. There is really nothing wrong with it, it's just human nature. If I had wrote it, the points of capitalism, self sufficiency, and personal accountability for your own choices/actions would have been more the bias. Who cares who coined any term? That is a silly way to justify a bias. One could also quote Sir W. Churchill "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." in describing your socialistic position... Or better yet, let's use Lenin's statement... "The goal of socialism is communism."

A true socialist in Colorado? You must be in Boulder, or you are very lonesome indeed.

You assert that I should use statements from the proponents of each group, but that seems to conflict with your opposition to quotes. Adam Smith the quintessential Laissez-Faire capitalist used the term invisible hand. Your quote from Lenin was concerning his brand of socialism (modified Marxism), and could have been placed in the Marxist category relatively fairly. It would not fit in my socialistic outlook as I'm not a Marxist. Churchill's quote would be entirely biased, but that doesn't reflect on the quote I used. Churchill was opposed to socialism, so the quote under your analysis would be inappropriate.

Actually, I'm quite lonely even in boulder. Most people here are hippy anarchic socialists. I believe in the necessity of the state to regulate human interactions. We simply operate better in a coherent whole. I don't believe men to be inherently bestowed with the ability to cooperate without enforced institutions. We did evolve to create and operate within such institutions. We don't have enough commonality to act cohesively without organization. Men will not act in the interest of the majority without some mechanism. Organizations help foster what is best in man. As a collective we subjugate individual interests to benefit the whole. Ultimately, it is a moot point. People can as much be separated from government as their heart. It has evolved with man as an integral component to our lives. I believe we are deeply flawed beings, but that society smoothes the rough edges. How would an anarchic society contend with psychopaths or worse? It appears to be genetic, so such problems would not vanish without government. Edited April 29, 2008 by John Stuart Mill

[John Stuart Mill]

As a side note, I’m the only one to vote for traditional socialism. I think that doesn’t serve your point concerning bias.

[Zyram]

Anarcho-capitalism FTW. Everything I'd want, plus in a purely voluntary society those who wanted to live or work in a commune or something of the like run by their peers rather than a huge, powerful socialist system created (and enforced) by the government would be perfectly able to do so. Everyone wins.

Well spoken. I also voted this way, I am an individualist with no grudge against individuals who choose to participate in collectivism. That said, I do object to being forced into collectivism at the point of a gun, or under threat of incarceration. Anarcho-Capitalism solves all problems in that regard.

-Z

[Hookah_Bob3]

I concur about the anarcho-capitalism. There's a reward for success. In liberal and socialist+ economies, there is little motive to go above and beyond, particularly in socialism and capitalism. Those two work in theory, but they discount the very important element of the human drive to succeed and to differentiate

[St. Goodypants]

Six sizes don't fit all.


Choice #7. Polls like this on something as complex as economic ideals lead to simplification.

Choice #8. STFU I don't care, nya nya nya I can't hear you.

[John Stuart Mill]

Two parties don't fit all either, but we live in an imperfect world. All that matters is that philosophies with sizable movements are captured. Sure, there might be Bob Barker's home grown system of economics, but who cares. Edited May 5, 2008 by John Stuart Mill

[John Stuart Mill]

If you have an alternate economic system with some following I will add it.