Is Shisha Smoke Really Smoke?

[ilikemyusername]

title says it all, almost.
so what is it? you dont burn the shisha, not like a cig, so my question is...
is it really smoking? or is it steaming? i know some people call it vaporizing, but is the vapor a smoke or a steam? or a vapor? or what?

[jezter6]

Steam- no way.

Smoke does not have to be hot. You can cold smoke things if you have the right kind of smoker (food that is).

Steam is ultra high temperature water vapor - which this is definately not.

[greeknate88]

Technically, its a vapor. Steam is just a name for gaseous water, dihydrogen monoxide. Smoke is an emulsion of solid particles suspended in an gaseous medium. Vapors are liquids dissolved in a gaseous medium. So, I think its a vapor. People could argue this until they are blue in the face. My 2 cents, is its vapor, not smoke.

[Raziel510]

I think what your breathing out is essentially fog. When you roast the shisha, the glycerine heats up and that creates fog. I believe fog machines work by heating up glycerine as well.

[ilikemyusername]

I think what your breathing out is essentially fog. When you roast the shisha, the glycerine heats up and that creates fog. I believe fog machines work by heating up glycerine as well.

fog, i like that.

[fineout]

not bashing, although i think its really funny to read all the different discussions people post up to convince themselves they arent "smokers" and that their hobby is somehow safer than it really is.

[Raziel510]

not bashing, although i think its really funny to read all the different discussions people post up to convince themselves they arent "smokers" and that their hobby is somehow safer than it really is.

I'm not trying to say that hookah smoking is safe at all. Smoking is smoking, there's no getting around that. I'm just saying that other elements of the shisha could be producing smoke and that it may not be a product of the tobacco alone. I would be pretty dumb if I thought that hookah smoking was somehow good for me or completely harmless.

[fineout]

i know i still feel like its a subconscious thing or something, im not sure how to explain it i wasnt pointing you out necessarily either, it was a very general statement. i didnt mean to offend you or anything

[ilikemyusername]

not bashing, although i think its really funny to read all the different discussions people post up to convince themselves they arent "smokers" and that their hobby is somehow safer than it really is.

i think shisha is good for me actually.
glyceryn is a humectant, so its like guiaffenesin.

[thugacation]

It has to be smoke
Isn't inhaling vapour slightly dangerous
If it was vapour wouldn't it mix with the water?

[Codename067]

Tobacco gets vaporized, but I dont think that we can call it exactly that.

I'll just stick to smoke =D

[hookah hippie]

When I smoke hookah I think I exhale Smoke but I am no scientist

[SuburbanSmoker]

LOL i totally agree with HH

[ronald_dooley]

It is smoke, but it is not the same as smoking a cigarette. Cigarettes are burned to combustion. They combust and burn completely, leaving ash behind. Shisha is heated like you heat wood chips used to smoke meat. They are not allowed to combust, but are heated enough to burn some parts of the wood and produce large volumes of smoke since they are wet. You are "smoking" shisha like you "smoke" wood chips for meat. It is, in fact, "toasting."

Try this: hold a cigarette above an open flame and move it back and forth quickly. The cigarette will "smoke," but it will not combust and will not start burning. The paper will turn brown, light smoke will come out of the end, and you will smell the toasted tobacco. That is called "smoking," or "toasting."

Most of the carcinogens and other crap that you get from smoking cigarettes is due to combustion, so shisha smoke is probably a lot healthier, but I'm not a doctor, so don't quote me.

[Raziel510]

i know i still feel like its a subconscious thing or something, im not sure how to explain it i wasnt pointing you out necessarily either, it was a very general statement. i didnt mean to offend you or anything

Oh no worries man. I wasn't offended

[jaredm]

I thought I'd chime in since I have an interest in this to the extent that I'm paying for laboratory analysis to answer this question (watch this space for an update soon!).

Greeknate88 is correct. In a perfect shisha you should be getting vapour from the glycerine (glycerine being a viscous liquid that vaporises into a gas) and not much else.

With an imperfect shisha (where you cause the tobacco to burn) you will get smoke. This is not desirable and this is not so good for you.

Not all vapours are bad, glycerine is food safe so it should be fine in vapour form.

Shisha smoking when setup right IS better than most smoking. The main reason for this is that the main health concerns from smoking (say with a cigarette) is tar and other solid particles that become trapped in your lung and ultimately can cause cancer.

Aside from that, you'll have some sulphur, carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide from the coals depending on the type of coals this will vary.

[Giant Ninja Robot]

Um, it's smoke...yeah, it's smoke. Vapor? Come on... Ron had it explained the best. It's smoke.

[jaredm]

Um, it's smoke...yeah, it's smoke. Vapor? Come on... Ron had it explained the best. It's smoke.

I guess people are entitled to call it however they think appropriate. Technically though smoke must contain fine particles as well as a visible vapour whereas a vapour on its own cannot by definition contain any fine particles.

If you're of the opinion that what comes out of a shisha pipe contains fine particles (and it sometimes does) then its smoke. If you're of the opinion that there aren't any fine particles (and sometimes there aren't) then its a vapour.

Each to their own

[Giant Ninja Robot]

yeah, no it's smoke

[liquidglass]

not bashing, although i think its really funny to read all the different discussions people post up to convince themselves they arent "smokers" and that their hobby is somehow safer than it really is.

no one is claiming it's safe in the least, someone just thought it mihgt not have all the properties of smoke so they asked a simple question. Everyone here knows inhaling anything but oxygen isn't healthy. However, hookah is "safer" than ciggs, do some research.

[pigpen]

Not all vapours are bad, glycerine is food safe so it should be fine in vapour form.

Shisha smoking when setup right IS better than most smoking. The main reason for this is that the main health concerns from smoking (say with a cigarette) is tar and other solid particles that become trapped in your lung and ultimately can cause cancer.

Aside from that, you'll have some sulphur, carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide from the coals depending on the type of coals this will vary.

There really isnt any data on the safety of inhaled glycerine - even in dilute vapor form it may still be bad for you. But as there is no scientific data (at the moment) its probably better to err on the side of caution.

As for particulate matter - you have to test the outflow to know there is no particulate matter in the vapor. You will need extra fine filter paper from a science supply house. The finest available. Then you can measure the particulates. But honestly - do you really think there is NO particulates in the tobacco vapor? I think a test would suprize you.

Further more, while it is understood that smokers get lung cancer more frequently than non-smokers, the mechanism of cancer is not yet completely understood. It is assumed that tar and other chemicals in smoke are major contributors, but we dont know that it is because of the particulates. We assume so, but, because non-smokers also get lung cancer, even those who have not be exposed to second hand smoke, there are other factors involved in the cancer that have yet to be identified.

Further more, in all industries where people are exposed to inhalants (including vapor) there is a huge increase in lung disease. Which suggests that the lungs are very delicate instruments and we torture them mercilessly.

If you are going to smoke (even your hookah)- understand that there are risks. Period. There really is no such thing as "safer".
Take responsibility for your own actions. Period.

I smoke. I accept my choice is not a wise one. I accept responsibility for my actions.

[Majid]

It's not steam and it's not supposed to be steam. It's tobacco smoke with flavour. Why would there be tobacco in shisha at all if not to create smoke?

[greeknate88]

OK, after doing some research, which I suggest ppl do before entering a scientific conversation such as this, I will present to you ym findings. Make of them what you want.

First off, Shisha tobacco is not "burned" or combusted like typical tobacco sources. A cigarette burns at 500-600 degrees C, while shisha is heated at closer to 150 C. This makes a huge difference in the toxicitity of the compunds involved, as many compounds become much more carcinogenic at higher temperatures. This is because they have enough energy to form unstable free-radicals which can damage organic molecules (tissues and cells, in the big picture) much more easily.

Smoke, by definition, is solid particles disolved as an emulsion in air.
Vapor, by definition, is liquid molecules disolved in air.

When shisha is burned it probably produes both vapors, such as glycerine and nicotine, as well as solid particultes such as ash and soot. We call it smoke by convention. However, it is important to note that scientific terms and layman's terms are not the same. For example, strawberries, blackberries, and rasberries are not actually "berries" by scientific defintion. Bell Peppers are actually berries.

As far as cancer risk goes, obviously smoking increases your chances of getting cancer. However, I think anyone with an ounce of logic in their brain would agree with that. What are the other options, either

1) It increases your cancer risk
2) It has no effect on cancer risk
3) It decreases cancer risk

Obviously it increases your chances of getting lung cancer. Statistically though, it is very difficult to tell. I'm actually working on the Tumor Sequencing Project, which is funded by NIH, and we are currently working on a form of lung cancer. I don't really know too much about the actually data, I just help generate it, not analyze it. But I was talking with the director of the center the other day, and he told me that cancer is largely genetic, and although lifestyles can impact ones risk, the base chance of developing cancer is predetermined from conception.

This actually makes a lot of sense, becauase my great-grandfather smoked non-filtered cigarettes and lived to be 92. While other people may develop cancer at 50. Being greek, and knowing that greeks have the highest smoking rates of any country, I think there may be some correlation between my genetics and having a decreased chance of developing lung cancer.

This is by no means an argument to play down the risks of smoking, I'm just trying to highlight some facts. Also, the lungs contain the only ciliated epithelium in males, which helps eliminate particulate matter from the lungs. It is only when the lungs become so clogged with tar and soot that they cannot function properly and lung cnacer develops. That is why they say after quitting smoking for so long the lungs return to normal functioning capacity as they are able to heal themselves. Personally, I'm a little more worried about all the diesel fumes and factory emissions I breath in on a day to day basis living in the city than my once a week hookah habit. But thats just me.

[Madame Paige]

Great topic! Thanks guys!

[Christofonopolis]

not bashing, although i think its really funny to read all the different discussions people post up to convince themselves they arent "smokers" and that their hobby is somehow safer than it really is.

no one is claiming it's safe in the least, someone just thought it mihgt not have all the properties of smoke so they asked a simple question. Everyone here knows inhaling anything but oxygen isn't healthy. However, hookah is "safer" than ciggs, do some research.

Well truthfully inhaling straight oxygen is very unhealthy and you can get oxygen poisioning, we all breath a mix of gaseous chemicals(plus some of the not so good ones that we produce). also this is a great information thread =]