Shisha Mixing

[Herbs]

Hey Everybody,

This is my first post on this forum. (Party time, right?) I'm currently studying abroad in Granada, Spain and recently took a trip to Morocco where I bought my first hookah. Its not the highest quality in the world, but for me the important thing is that it works, has a green color scheme, and oh yeah... it rotates (probably not that impressive to those of you who have been around the block).

Anyway, my question:
I'm a do it yourself kind of guy, and I like to cook. Naturally, I want to make my own shisha. My first batch will be apple: the flavor which is my host mother's favorite. I looked up some recipes, no problem. My problem came in when I tried to buy the ingredients. I can't find a single place in Granada that sells Vegetable Glycerin. Thusly, I have a few questions:

1. Are glycerin and glycerol the same thing? The Wikipedia says so, and I'm inclined to believe it.
2. Can you make shisha without glycerin? The recipes I found says Glycerin helps to slow and evenly burn the tobacco and fruit. Are there alternatives?
3. Is it a bad idea to use normal glycerin i.e. that which is made from biodiesel byproducts?
4. Does anyone know where one would go about acquiring vegetable glycerin whether in Spain or in the states?

Thanks in advance.

[Hawk]

[quote name='Herbs' date='04 November 2009 - 03:55 PM' timestamp='1257368155' post='424587']
Hey Everybody,

This is my first post on this forum. (Party time, right?) I'm currently studying abroad in Granada, Spain and recently took a trip to Morocco where I bought my first hookah. Its not the highest quality in the world, but for me the important thing is that it works, has a green color scheme, and oh yeah... it rotates (probably not that impressive to those of you who have been around the block).

Anyway, my question:
I'm a do it yourself kind of guy, and I like to cook. Naturally, I want to make my own shisha. My first batch will be apple: the flavor which is my host mother's favorite. I looked up some recipes, no problem. My problem came in when I tried to buy the ingredients. I can't find a single place in Granada that sells Vegetable Glycerin. Thusly, I have a few questions:

1. Are glycerin and glycerol the same thing? The Wikipedia says so, and I'm inclined to believe it.
2. Can you make shisha without glycerin? The recipes I found says Glycerin helps to slow and evenly burn the tobacco and fruit. Are there alternatives?
3. Is it a bad idea to use normal glycerin i.e. that which is made from biodiesel byproducts?
4. Does anyone know where one would go about acquiring vegetable glycerin whether in Spain or in the states?

Thanks in advance.
[/quote]

You should use USP grade vegetable glycerin only, best to use Now Brand 100% pure V.G.


[url="http://www.swansonvitamins.com/NWF052/ItemDetail?n=0"]http://www.swansonvi.../ItemDetail?n=0[/url]

[Jeff_T]

I've never been to Spain, and I'm assuming they have fresh farmer's markets and not as many "health food" type stores, but if they do you could check those places out, that's where I got my vegetable glycerin. If you can get it, I'd recommend making shisha with glycerin, but you could try a small batch without it and just use honey/molasses. Good luck. Report back on your findings and how your shisha turns out. Also, welcome to the forums.

[Somethign else]

the only way we will mix the shisha. is if were almost out of one kind.. well put the rest of it in the bowl..then add the new stuff

[magick777]

[quote name='Herbs' timestamp='1257368155' post='424587']

I can't find a single place in Granada that sells Vegetable Glycerin. Thusly, I have a few questions:

1. Are glycerin and glycerol the same thing? The Wikipedia says so, and I'm inclined to believe it.
2. Can you make shisha without glycerin? The recipes I found says Glycerin helps to slow and evenly burn the tobacco and fruit. Are there alternatives?
3. Is it a bad idea to use normal glycerin i.e. that which is made from biodiesel byproducts?
4. Does anyone know where one would go about acquiring vegetable glycerin whether in Spain or in the states?

Thanks in advance.
[/quote]

First, apologies for the delayed reply, I only joined the forum today.

With regard to glycerine, you should be able to buy pharmaceutical grade glycerine from just about any pharmacy. Ask for "glicerina farmaceutica". If you don't want to have the discussion about what it's for, say you're making soap. Pharmaceutical grade glycerine is, indeed, 99.7% glycerol. I see no problem with using pharmaceutical grade glycerine, would mix with an equal volume of honey or molasses. Really, though, acquiring glycerine is the least of your worries... finding suitable tobacco and flavouring ingredients is going to be more of a challenge, and won't come cheaper than just buying shisha tobacco.

Which begs the question, at least while you're in Granada, why bother? You can buy Nakhla molasses from the shops behind the Cathedral (walk down past the Capilla Real and look at the shops on your left and also those in the little "souk" at the bottom of that street); it's cheaper than you'll pay for it back home and it's one of the best. Seriously, I wish we had the choice of molasses in London that you do in Granada; enjoy the choice while it is available to you, so you know what you're trying to emulate when you get back home.

You may also wish to know that in Germany there is a big trade in molasses / glycerine / flavour mixtures, thanks to a German law that states that tobacco sold there can only have a maximum of 5% glycerine content. An industry has therefore sprung up in flavoured mixes so users can hydrate their own tobacco as they wish. One UK distributor carries these and I imagine that the major US ones would also, but while you're in Spain I would probably look to order direct from one of the German suppliers. You will find that in Spain you have good availability of traditional (Middle Eastern) shisha supplies, but low availability of new-fangled, expensive German and American innovations. The US and UK markets have a mixture of both influences.

Best regards,

magick

[jorlyfish]

I just ordered some vegetable glycerine on Amazon.com -- didn't think it was too bad of a deal. Just my .02.

[TheScotsman]

Glycerin from biodiesel conversion contains methanol. No matter how well controlled, and perfect your process was, there are significant levels of catalyst (Sodium Hydroxide and Methanol) contaminating the leftovers. For the love of it all -- Don't use that stuff. Methanol and lye fumes are, well, less than the ideal compound to inhale.

[magick777]

I have a couple of reservations about this. I don't dispute the truth of what you say, but

1) Biodiesel is produced from vegetable sources, ergo, glycerine made from biodiesel byproducts can legally and truthfully be sold as vegetable glycerine. You have no guarantee that something you buy as vegetable glycerine is not made from biodiesel leftovers, and in all probability, it is.

2) My recommendation was for pharmaceutical grade glycerine, which is more refined than food grade. It is intended, rated and tested for internal and external use by human beings; pharmaceutical grade is what goes into your cough syrup and your personal lubricants, so I'm fairly confident that it doesn't contain hazardous levels of sodium hydroxide or methanol. This to me is more of an indicator of fitness for human consumption than the word "vegetable" on the label.

3) I have no control over how and where Nakhla buy their glycerine, nor of what grade it is, yet I choose to consume their product. I fail to see how I could make the situation any worse by using the highest quality glycerine on the market.

In other words, we all agree you shouldn't use any old cheap and nasty glycerine - but you should be more concerned with the quality and purity of your glycerine than with the simple fact that it is of vegetable origin.

[PSU Smoker]

I bought a rather large (considering the amount you need) bottle of glycerin from the pharmacy for like 7 bucks. If its not on the shelves just ask whoever is behind the counter and they should have some. The container from the pharm will not say food grade but it is 99.9 or 99.5 which is food grade safe...ill have to see if i cant dig out my bottle again for a closer look (org bought it to make fondant to decorate a cake)

[doc brandon]

[quote name='magick777' timestamp='1294135686' post='493296']
I have a couple of reservations about this. I don't dispute the truth of what you say, but

1) Biodiesel is produced from vegetable sources, ergo, glycerine made from biodiesel byproducts can legally and truthfully be sold as vegetable glycerine. You have no guarantee that something you buy as vegetable glycerine is not made from biodiesel leftovers, and in all probability, it is.

2) My recommendation was for pharmaceutical grade glycerine, which is more refined than food grade. It is intended, rated and tested for internal and external use by human beings; pharmaceutical grade is what goes into your cough syrup and your personal lubricants, so I'm fairly confident that it doesn't contain hazardous levels of sodium hydroxide or methanol. This to me is more of an indicator of fitness for human consumption than the word "vegetable" on the label.

3) I have no control over how and where Nakhla buy their glycerine, nor of what grade it is, yet I choose to consume their product. I fail to see how I could make the situation any worse by using the highest quality glycerine on the market.

In other words, we all agree you shouldn't use any old cheap and nasty glycerine - but you should be more concerned with the quality and purity of your glycerine than with the simple fact that it is of vegetable origin.
[/quote]

Not disagreeing, just making an observation...

Just because it is approved for Internal (cough syrup) and External (personal lubricant) use, doesn't necessarily mean it is mean to be used to smoke.

[Jimbo64]

Doesnt really matter if its from the pharmacy in my opinion (And that of many smokers) The stuff from the drug store or Walmart isnt vegetable base, and it gives most people headaches when used in smoking products. I used that 20 dollar a bottle stuff from behind the counter at Rite-aid and it gave me a nasty headache. Now I use the veg stuff from Now Foods, and never get a headache, when I ran out once, I used the rite-aid stuff and instantly got another headache.

I get the now foods stuff for like 8 bucks a bottle, the drug store stuff is easily 4 times as much.

[Murakamikazi]

[quote name='Jimbo64' timestamp='1297554217' post='497752']
Doesnt really matter if its from the pharmacy in my opinion (And that of many smokers) The stuff from the drug store or Walmart isnt vegetable base, and it gives most people headaches when used in smoking products. I used that 20 dollar a bottle stuff from behind the counter at Rite-aid and it gave me a nasty headache. Now I use the veg stuff from Now Foods, and never get a headache, when I ran out once, I used the rite-aid stuff and instantly got another headache.

I get the now foods stuff for like 8 bucks a bottle, the drug store stuff is easily 4 times as much.
[/quote]

Couldn't have said it better myself. I usually go to a health food store to get my Now brand vegetable glycerin, which is roughly six dollars. If it's not Now brand though be sure to check for a label that says it's food grade.