Serious Discussion Forum

[SpaceOddity]

Directed towards the thought that there are other topics to discuss these sort of serious things in, I think most forums that center around religion or politics contain a lot of radicals and its hard to find a moderate view in the lot. On hookah forums you take a shared interest that has nothing to do with serious issues so you get a lot of people with diverse opinions. Since we already know hookah members are able to try something new, (some people seem so scared of the hookah) that they arent usually completely set in their views and allow others to give their opinions. If I go on a board only about politics Im sure ill get the same old thing, Democrats vesus Republicans, Bush=Devil and so forth. Here I can get opinions from around the country, other countries, and have them not be ridiculously out there.

I say let the serious discussion forum contain anything it wants. There is too much censorship already and why are the most important issues the most touchy and least talked about? Sure keep any racist or downright insulting comments out, but I think if they are valid, well thought out opinions and everyone is open to hearing other opinions, than the idea of a serious dicsusion forum is a very productive one.

[Dragonsmettle]

perhaps add a little warning to the thread telling people that are easily offended to not enter and whatnot

[Scheetz]

Sure keep any racist or downright insulting comments out, but I think if they are valid, well thought out opinions and everyone is open to hearing other opinions, than the idea of a serious dicsusion forum is a very productive one.

Well, the way this world is that wont happen unfortunately. Sure the racist comments can be kept out, and I am sure they will. However, alot of people dont keep an open ear to other peoples opinions. Most of the time this will come with religious/abortion/gun laws/drugs and a few other topics. But when people are set in their ways, they are not going to change. It is the nature of the beast, try talking to a democrat about abortion and see how far you get. Do the same with a republican but take a different stand. Same with religion, talk to a catholic about something in the bible being read differently by another sect.

People are set in their ways, and hence a fight will break out. But its the internet, you cant win an argument on the internet.

[EvansLight]

Well scheetz there you are wrong. And yes its mainly because one of us is almost always on. If not for that, then there would be some bad things that would have been seen by the many. Its still back to the whole, we keep things running smoothly, and yall never see most of what happens. Because of this, it seems that yall have a view that things should stay as they are. Know theres alot of small fires we as moderators have put out to save the members the headaches and troubles of dealing with people who try to start these fires.

And also, ive been a mod at many forums, and hung around even more. It does spill out, just you never notice it for the most part.

As for what i feel. i say we keep the serious discussion for now. But if we do, then more of the regular members will have to aide by the rules as well. And that includes anyone who has came down hard on anyone for anything they have posted. No matter how stupid, how wrong, or how evil the post/topic/avatar/signature is, responding to it in almost any way just adds to the problem. Informing the mods, and letting us take care of it is the best way to go. Hell im even guilty of that back with king mo. Since then i have learned to just back off, and let things run.

I do agree with mushrat though that so far things have not worked out, and so far weve done what we could, and its been an almost weekly thing to have to stop a big fire from eating the forum alive. I say for now, as i said we keep it. If it doesn't work out after a month or so, then i say we kill it off then.

/End Rant

Once again all stated above Is My Opinion.

[ShishaFred]

I don't think you want to have a forum aprt where everyone can bitch and moan and flame... even if you advertise to go there at your own risk , you'll always have people that come out of there harmed and show it into other parts of the forums.
We don't all have the same way of viewing things , or talking to people for that matter. I know that if I act all natural , my personality will conflict with some people , so I hold back. A free-for-all section = people do stuff they wouldn't do , and shouldn't do normally.

[Sariél]

Keep it. If anyone is offended, tell them to either grow a pair or DON'T CLICK THE LINK! I also think that pulling posts is a mistake, kind of like hiding evidence. The only way we have to evaluate people on this board is through their posts, and if you delete a post from an offensive person, I think it just helps the asshole stay under the radar.

I don't post much, but I do read this forum every day, and will put in my 2 cents when I think I can add to a discussion (OK, marmots not withstanding, sometimes just for a one liner). I have been around here for longer than just about everybody here, and have watched the forum change substantially (out of the active members, I think only Bubble, xpimp, are still around). I've watched the forum weather Mathazar, Richard Tisch, drug discussions, and HookahHookah Trolls, just to name a few. Myself, I think I preferred the anarchy.

Here's an idea, instead of pulling posts, why not just move them to the Serious discussions forum? Then Pad the walls, and let 'em loose; watch the fur fly. I always thought it was fun to sit up in the cheap seats and kibbitz. Edited December 15, 2006 by Sariél

[Scheetz]

Keep it. If anyone is offended, tell them to either grow a pair or DON'T CLICK THE LINK! I also think that pulling posts is a mistake, kind of like hiding evidence. The only way we have to evaluate people on this board is through their posts, and if you delete a post from an offensive person, I think it just helps the asshole stay under the radar.

I agree, I know I get irritated when my posts are missing parts of them from mods editing them. I dont even know why they are edited. If I was directly attacking someone outright I would understand, but my posts are harmless. How are we supposed to know how people are if you only read 1 out of 3 posts that they make cause the police are trying to stay busy.

Mods just need to relax, what do you think is going to happen when this forum hits 4000 members or even 3000. You going to put in over time?? If you get used to it now, you guys wont flip out in the future. And for the record, I have never seen serious discussion people overflow into the hookah section. Sure some people dont like other members on here. But I doubt they will directly attack them in a post when they make a statement.

If they do, thats life. You cant fix everything you know. According to the Bible, God tried and look what happend to Adam and Eve.

EDIT: POST 500 got my 4 bars

[yashman19]

Keep it. If anyone is offended, tell them to either grow a pair or DON'T CLICK THE LINK! I also think that pulling posts is a mistake, kind of like hiding evidence. The only way we have to evaluate people on this board is through their posts, and if you delete a post from an offensive person, I think it just helps the asshole stay under the radar.

I agree, I know I get irritated when my posts are missing parts of them from mods editing them. I dont even know why they are edited. If I was directly attacking someone outright I would understand, but my posts are harmless. How are we supposed to know how people are if you only read 1 out of 3 posts that they make cause the police are trying to stay busy.

Mods just need to relax, what do you think is going to happen when this forum hits 4000 members or even 3000. You going to put in over time?? If you get used to it now, you guys wont flip out in the future. And for the record, I have never seen serious discussion people overflow into the hookah section. Sure some people dont like other members on here. But I doubt they will directly attack them in a post when they make a statement.

If they do, thats life. You cant fix everything you know. According to the Bible, God tried and look what happend to Adam and Eve.

EDIT: POST 500 got my 4 bars

What can I say, perks of the job I suppose...

I will continue to delete/edit/move any content as I see fit. Rest assured that I don't simply go around deleting random posts just for the hell of it, there is always a reason, weather you see it or not.

[yashman19]

Keep it. If anyone is offended, tell them to either grow a pair or DON'T CLICK THE LINK! I also think that pulling posts is a mistake, kind of like hiding evidence. The only way we have to evaluate people on this board is through their posts, and if you delete a post from an offensive person, I think it just helps the asshole stay under the radar.

I agree, I know I get irritated when my posts are missing parts of them from mods editing them. I dont even know why they are edited. If I was directly attacking someone outright I would understand, but my posts are harmless. How are we supposed to know how people are if you only read 1 out of 3 posts that they make cause the police are trying to stay busy.

Mods just need to relax, what do you think is going to happen when this forum hits 4000 members or even 3000. You going to put in over time?? If you get used to it now, you guys wont flip out in the future. And for the record, I have never seen serious discussion people overflow into the hookah section. Sure some people dont like other members on here. But I doubt they will directly attack them in a post when they make a statement.

If they do, thats life. You cant fix everything you know. According to the Bible, God tried and look what happend to Adam and Eve.

EDIT: POST 500 got my 4 bars

What can I say, perks of the job I suppose... /end smartass comment

I will continue to delete/edit/move any content as I see fit. Rest assured that I don't simply go around deleting random posts just for the hell of it, there is always a reason, weather you see it or not.

[[LB]]

that makes sense yash, we should keep the serious discussion section, but also keep It fairly clean, like im assuming you have been anyways! maybe with this new engine you can target and track certain words that dont belong on the forum so you have an easier task of keeping this forum clean (words like n*****, and cu** that type of stuff that only is used for malicious nature, not exaggerated expression!)

[mushrat]

If soem folks will recall King Mo's last few days. His signature became "Memebers x and y are racists" then there were the posts where people were puttin gin little one line jabs no matter what the topic was. You all may not have seen them , or remember them, but I assure you they were there. Oh, and the screaming on the pm's to Mods is astounding when the serious section gets going...so there IS spillover.

You want to know what kind of pweson a memeber is...check back regularly. If a post is going to get removed it usually takes a few hours to get noticed so you have the chance then, also if you see a vacation notice...you know there was a problem with a member and what that problem was...

I'll say for about the 4th time. The serious disucssion area COULD have run like you all say it should. But it HASN'T and mod doesn't mean babysitter. I think if there is an area that is causing continual headaches for Mod and memeber..that area should simply be removed. You wanna get to know each other better than Hookah socially, pick a political forum to meet up on and give THEIR mods something to do....

[fizzgig]

Mush is right and yes I did see that stuff. I love the serious discussion forum and hope we get another chance with it. So please people GROW UP! Don't blow an otherwise great thing! I'm an oldster and don't want to chit chat about playstation, (no offense to those who do, mind you) but I crave a good discussion and debate. I've had to search out info on some of these topics which means I've actually learned something! I enjoy that type of stimulation with fellow hookahteers whom I perceive to be more openminded than the average bear. Anyway, sorry for the rant but Mush is right and Mods aren't babysitters and hell we shouldn't need them to be! So PLEASE if we get to keep it and you see a topic on there that you know is going to make you flip out then DON'T respond to it. There are several on there right now that I won't respond to because I feel so radical about them I know I'd try to draw blood. So I just cuss at my computer instead of posting and would advise you to do the same if you can't control yourselves!

[fizzgig]

Hi. Check your pm's.

[Scalliwag]

I love passionate and thoughtful debate. Especially if I do not agree with someone. To me one of the most intelligent and insightful people was Edward R. Murrow. Most of the stuff he said was before I was born. But so much of it is timeless and can teach us a lot of things.
One quote from him that reminds me of why so many of my friends are so much different than me but I will never base a judgment of putting a friendship in a balance of an argument is:

Everyone is a prisoner of his own experiences. No one can eliminate prejudices - just recognize them.
Edward R. Murrow, television broadcast, December 31, 1955
US broadcast journalist & newscaster (1908 - 1965)

Be passionate, but be compassionate. You can be right on a subject and still be wrong in the way you do someone else to prove a point because we all have completely different experiences that shape the way we think and feel. Some people come into the world with everything against them and become Ross Perot Jr's and some come into the world with silver spoons in their mouths and become the Menedez brothers (rich kids that killed their parents)
The people that recognize the cards they are dealt and play them to the best of their ability sometimes do not achieve fame or fortune, but they still beat the odds. Some of us that may not seem that rich have so much more going in our personal lives than anything you will ever read in a thread could ever reflect.

I am proud to have friends and those that consider me their friends that are from a wide range of ideaologies.... even if they are wrong! Ha! At the end of the day we have more in common than not. They all think I am crazy as hell, but that's okay at least they are right about some things ENJOY LIFE!!!! Be the kind of friend that you would like to have and you will never be short of friends. Oh, and drink lots of Shiner!!! ARRRRRR!!!!!!

[fizzgig]

Shucks Scally you're dispensing pearls of wisdom everywhere today. Your posts are making me smile.

[Scalliwag]

thanks Fizzy, getting older puts things into perspective. I was thinking a little more about times in my life I was so sure on something that I was just so sure there was nothing that could move me and things that came along that changed my perspective.
I was sick as a dog with the flu several years back and at home in the day watching CSPAN to see what the doofs in DC were arguing over. It was a congressional hearing over parental notification of a minor on an abortion. I have three daughters. No one could convince me that if one of my daughters got preggers that I better not know about it. It made me furious to even have the topic ya know?
Well there was a very conservative couple from (I think) Florida that were testifying before the commitee that told the story of their daughter and her upbringing in such a conservative family in a state that required notification that got pregnant.
She was about 16 or 17 and could not face her parents and in desperation went to a back alley abortionist and ended up bleeding to death. I watched them grimmace and talk about how it was against everything in them but if they could have their daughter back that if she would have went to a clinic that they would give the world that day not to have to go look at a piece of granite with her name on it in a graveyard to visit her.
That rattled me about as hard as I have ever been rattled. I am still very torn now but only because I heard an unimaginable perspective. You talk about passion and emotion.... OMG.... I could not wait for my girls to get home from school so we could talk about things they could not even understand at the time. But I just wanted them to know that even if Daddy gets mad that there is nothing that they could not come to me with. But in the back of my mind I know that scared kids do stupid things. Good kids do stupid things.... but I never want to be that family before that commitee seeing things in a harsh reality that everyday I have to wonder "what if" about?

Even when you think you are SO sure, life has a way of letting you know you don't know shit sometimes. Things will fall through unforeseen cracks, but when you look back and see a crack was a valley you have to live with that forever.... and hopefully what fell through did not mean everything to you, ya know? Edited December 19, 2006 by Scalliwag

[Johnny_D]

Even when you think you are SO sure, life has a way of letting you know you don't know shit sometimes. Things will fall through unforeseen cracks, but when you look back and see a crack was a valley you have to live with that forever.... and hopefully what fell through did not mean everything to you, ya know?

And I'll back this!

It's so damn true, There have been times over the past 15 years that i have felt so solid. So secure & so righteous in my opinions and then BANG! something comes along and destroys that perspective and idology.

It's all about perspective and experience. And as we all travel through this journey things will change. And so will opinions. So like Scalli i try now to not get too engrossed and storched in opionion and righteous indignation.... because i am now becomming aware that it's only my current perspective that lends to my current opions.. and currents change!

JD

[ASUSEAN1]

this is an intense debate itself, move it to the serious discussion forum.. it belongs there haha


so i guess the thing shall stay

[SpaceOddity]

I love passionate and thoughtful debate. Especially if I do not agree with someone. To me one of the most intelligent and insightful people was Edward R. Murrow. Most of the stuff he said was before I was born. But so much of it is timeless and can teach us a lot of things.
One quote from him that reminds me of why so many of my friends are so much different than me but I will never base a judgment of putting a friendship in a balance of an argument is:

Everyone is a prisoner of his own experiences. No one can eliminate prejudices - just recognize them.
Edward R. Murrow, television broadcast, December 31, 1955
US broadcast journalist & newscaster (1908 - 1965)

Be passionate, but be compassionate. You can be right on a subject and still be wrong in the way you do someone else to prove a point because we all have completely different experiences that shape the way we think and feel. Some people come into the world with everything against them and become Ross Perot Jr's and some come into the world with silver spoons in their mouths and become the Menedez brothers (rich kids that killed their parents)
The people that recognize the cards they are dealt and play them to the best of their ability sometimes do not achieve fame or fortune, but they still beat the odds. Some of us that may not seem that rich have so much more going in our personal lives than anything you will ever read in a thread could ever reflect.

I am proud to have friends and those that consider me their friends that are from a wide range of ideaologies.... even if they are wrong! Ha! At the end of the day we have more in common than not. They all think I am crazy as hell, but that's okay at least they are right about some things ENJOY LIFE!!!! Be the kind of friend that you would like to have and you will never be short of friends. Oh, and drink lots of Shiner!!! ARRRRRR!!!!!!

I really like that quote.

And having friends with a wide range of ideaologies and experiences is great. The more perspectives you hear the better yours will be.

[EvansLight]

so i think it comes down to lets make a poll. I think we should leave this up to the masses, even though i think we should do away with it XD

[Sonthert]

None of this really became a problem until we started trying to regulate the Serious Discussion Area. I remember the Serious Discussion Area as "No rules" area. I think the problem is regulating serious discussion, anywhere, anytime is impossible, its like trying to rope lightning. If a particular member can't keep his whiny or offended mouth shut in other areas, then he should be talked to. The incidence of that is rare, however. Most of the loud-mouthed jack-asses from the Serious Discussion Area (of which I am one) forget what who said very quickly. King Mo may be one of the exceptions. At the same time, it should be recommended that visotrs to that area be polite, whenever possible, but thats not something that can be enforced or controlled, by any means.

[ASUSEAN1]

None of this really became a problem until we started trying to regulate the Serious Discussion Area. I remember the Serious Discussion Area as "No rules" area. I think the problem is regulating serious discussion, anywhere, anytime is impossible, its like trying to rope lightning. If a particular member can't keep his whiny or offended mouth shut in other areas, then he should be talked to. The incidence of that is rare, however. Most of the loud-mouthed jack-asses from the Serious Discussion Area (of which I am one) forget what who said very quickly. King Mo may be one of the exceptions. At the same time, it should be recommended that visotrs to that area be polite, whenever possible, but thats not something that can be enforced or controlled, by any means.

fo sho