Unemployment Benefits

[Rani]

So Congress failed to pass additional extensions for unemployment benefits. 1.2 Million Americans are going to be without money at all as of now. While I'm sure there are a few taking advantage of the system, most all of us are applying for work both in and outside our own industries like at least a dozen times every single day. Economists say this could cause a "double dip" recession throwing us backward. It also means recent graduates are going to have an even tougher time. More homes will foreclose, etc. And I suspect the backlash will shift the majority firmly back to the Democratic Party as the Republicans are the Party who openly voted against it - three times over. I really don't want that because I think when they actually work together they tend to get better things accomplished because they balance each other out.

So Democrats insist on bundling the bill for extensions which is stupid when they know up front the bundle is going to cause a problem.

Republicans don't care about the damage it does to 1.2 million Americans who paid into the system all these years, they just wanna prove a point.

I'm fairly certain they can't afford to not pass the extensions. It's an election year and the unemployed vote louder than the guy who has nothing to worry about, but still...... Once again, Washington shows it doesn't give a rats ass for the individual citizen and what they're doing to us.

So, what I'd like everyone to do who reads this....... Bitch! Write a scathing email to your senator (Democratic and Republican). Go to www.gop.com, create an account and bitch as loudly as you can there. I don't know what the Democratic Party website is, but feel free to join that one and do the same.

Instead of paying attention to what's happening to their voters they're responsible for, they're busy making noises about the potential of Kagan joining the Supreme Court. They need to put her ass on hold for a couple weeks and deal with this. And I'm hoping you will all agree and yell - loudly because if the economists are right, we could be in very deep shit with 1.2 million without a dime to put food on the table.

'Rani

[Chreees]

I totally agree with ya, Rani. I was just at my grandparents' house and they have Fox News on the whole time and I thought my ears were gonna bleed... All they were doing was trashing Kagan and also blaming Obama for the oilspill. WTF?! Okay, not even gonna get into that one... But yeah, Republicans need to quit their bitching about moot, pointless shit and actually work with the Democrats to make this country better. They can help out the banks and automotive industry, but not the unemployed? Okay... Seems American... Not really. I'm tired of all this party bullshit. It divides everything and makes it so where nothing can actually get done. I think all of this party crap needs to be thrown out the window. Only then will we see change.

[mustafabey]

Screw the little guy! It seems to be the mantra of both parties. I feel that pain as a senior citizen whose retirement account was all but wiped out by the 08 crash. Nobody bailed me out. When 2010 came i was informed that my social security would not receive a cost of living increase. Obama promised me a$250 'stimulus'. That got caught up in the same tug of war as unemployment and was finally passed to cover the donut hole in Medicare. Since I am not yet 65 and get my healthcare thru the VA I'm shit outta luck. Republicans seem to care only for corporate America and the super wealthy. They create their bases by appealing to various one issue groups. They fill the air waves with propaganda from Fox news and conservative talk radio,they feed racist hatred to secure the votes of those who dislike Obama because of his skin color, they pander to fringe groups, both religious and otherwise. I have always wondered when the working class Republicans are going to find out that their party doesn't give a shit. Probably never, if they listen to Fox. Meanwhile the Democrats are no better. They have their special interests and clog meaningful legislation with pork to line the pockets of their supporters. They, too, have their fringe groups of radical leftists, whose agendas have long forgotten the people. Whoever said government is broken is correct. The fact that congress can't come off their ideological soapboxes to help out the victims of this recession created by rampant greed is proof positive. Nobody in Washington is ready to give up the greed, remove corporate influence and lobbies, and return the government to the people. Obama had quite an agenda, hope and change, and America bought it, but what America got was not healthcare or wall street reform, but empty bills that seem to exist in name only, to say "OK, we've done it", when they havent done jack. Of course the American media gives us only the news they want us to hear and lots of fluff about celebrity mishaps and embarrassments, so most people have no idea whats going on. Someone once said:The Americans think that they live in a democracy, they haven't found out, that they don't.
You're right,Rani, two sides working together, some give and take, some love for this country should have a higher priority that pork and hatred.
I am hoping. that out of all this pain, a true populist movement may appear to put these dems and repubs out of business. Even if that happens, in time the same greedy demagogues will hijack the new party, stone it out on a diet of fluff and begin the rape of America again. That's what history, time and time again, says.

[Rani]

Go to www.GOP.com and read some of what's recently being posted. I think the "worm" is about to turn. Working class Republicans are hurting just as badly as Democrats. Liberal or Conservative, they've put us all in the same boat and if we don't start bailing [u]together[/u] we're going to sink and the CEOs of huge international corporations will do nothing but say they had a nice run and retire to Monaco where there are no taxes.

'Rani

[Venger]

this could all be resolved if they had a no pork clause. One bill,one idea (law), one vote. You can't have a bill that extends unemployment benies and tack on a pro-abortion law or (insert anything the other group would never vote for) and expect it to pass. What is even shittier is lets say no one hears about the tacked on pork and I as a senator vote no because I am against the ride-a-longs. I get labeled a douchbag for not voting on extending benefits. Even though by voting yes it would cost Americans billions of dollars and pushed an agenda my voter are against.
All anyone ever remembers is you hate unemployed people. There is no way to win this because there is too much to compromise.
one bill,one law,one vote.
Ray

[mustafabey]

One wonders what would happen to the American government if we got rid of pork,lobbyists and devised an electoral system free of cash donations. None of this exists in the Constitution

[TheScotsman]

pelosi and company are using you as the waterboy for their partisan politics, and you are falling for it.

they want to attach BS to it, call it an emergency spending, and not subject to pay-go, then cry like babies when it doesn't pass. that is stupid. they want to pass garbage people don't want, then sit there and ridicule the other side when the bill fails because of the rules they themselves attached to it. Who would fall for that tactic again? What's next? outlaw cars, and attach it to a bill granting every resident 100,000$... then go fire everyone up about not getting their 100,000$, when the real goal is outlawing cars? Your dem party in action again.

If it's so important, lets see it stand alone, and be presented for a vote, not suppressed by the socialists, er, I mean democrats before it is even brought to the floor. Hey, I have an idea, everyone go to to the harpie-of-the-house's (aka "the word" pelosi's) website, and tell her to bring a clean bill to the floor without adding allot of unfunded BS, and not trying to bring it under a rules suspension, where 2/3rds are required to pass it. After all, the dems COULD have brought in to the floor as a regular bill, and it would have passed easily. Instead, they want to add 35 billion to the budget, and suspend their own rules because they are chickenshit, and like to talk reduced spending... at least until they have to find the $$ to pay for something.

Democrats brought up the bill under a special procedure in which no amendments were allowed and debate was limited. Under the procedure, the bill needed a two-thirds majority to pass. The vote was 261-155, short of the two-thirds needed. It was a dem attempt to blackmail the reps into either supporting their bs, or facing the sheeple that can't understand the nature of the political game. Besides, it looks like there were 16 of your worship-worthy dems voting against it. Why don't you mention them???? your activist-bias is showing again. After all, if those 16 democrats would have supported the bill, guess what... that would have been the 2/3 needed. But wait, it can't be the fault of 16 democrats that decided the vote against it, it has to be the evil republicans.

All but two of the Democrats are members of the fiscally conservative Blue Dog Coalition. The 14 Blue Dogs were: Reps. Marion Berry (Ark.), Travis Childers (Miss.), Jim Cooper (Tenn.), Joe Donnelly (Ind.), Jim Marshall (Ga.), Betsy Markey (Colo.), Frank Kratovil (Md.), Baron Hill (Ind.), Stephanie Herseth Sandlin (S.D.), Walt Minnick (Idaho), Glenn Nye (Va.), Bobby Bright (Ala.) and Heath Shuler (N.C.). The other two were Reps. John Adler (N.J.) and Melissa Bean (Ill.). (shamelessly poached from [url="http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/801-economy/106289-house-lines-up-second-vote-on-unemployment-benefits"]HERE[/url])

They passed pay-go, then want to ignore it when they have to pay for a bill, and make hard choices --- how useless can they be?
The country is out of other people's money to give away, it's all gone. China has no more they want to loan on a high risk investment like the USA.


[u]
My grandchildren shouldn't have to pay for your unemployment, period-end, of story.[/u]




I think I am going to join Mustafabey in the no pork/no lobby party/no corporate donations idea. The only other reform I would like to see would be removing party affiliation from any ballot and all advertising for the last 60 days before any election. While we are at it, how about a requirement that every bill is no more than 100 pages, and has one topic only, or that each topic is voted on individually.

[matias]

Well, apart from the fact that I'd like to hear at least some criticism of the Republicans from the Scotsman, I think I can agree with most of what everyone said here.

This being said, all this criticizing of politicians is very fine but a fact remains: the people elect them, the responsibility to change them and change the system is the people's. I know they are being brain-washed and "can't see" how they are being led on, but it's still their responsibility.

Politicians polarize the people trying to make them believe in an enemy [read "Democrats", "Republicans", "Socialists", "Terrorists", "Illegal immigrants", "Enemies of America" (yes I know... there are people conceited and stupid enough to really think (as opposed to the lazy use of the word) that the United States of America are America, quite forgetting about all the other countries that form this beautiful continent), add other enemies at will]. If the people do not wake up to it, they will keep being screwed. Politicians are exploiting the "I can't be bothered to participate or see beyond my bigoted we-are-right-they-are-wrong, we-are-good-they-are-evil views " attitude. While this is wrong of the politicians, it is still the people's fault if they let them do it, especially as I am more and more of the opinion that this is because a vast number of people are putting "me" and "my own comfort" at the center of their consuming-centered life.

I am saying this for all of our so-called democracies, not only the USA. So-called not because their institutional structure is un-democratic but because when the people stop participating in the "Government of the People", stop checking and questioning what their representatives do, democracy is broken.

My take on it: do right at my level, check, participate, get involved, shout, protest, discuss, engage. When enough people do it, it will make a change at a global level. In the meantime, the fruits, as modest as they might be, can still be seen at a local level. Edited June 30, 2010 by matias

[mustafabey]

Heard today the dems are trying to tack on some Teacher's Union pork to the bill authorizing money for the troops in Afghanistan. Nasty business. It seems the Constitution worked just fine until the lawyers started to pick it apart and look for loopholes. Where did lobbying come from, what about that other thing that needs to be banned, filibuster. I don't have the votes to win, so nobody is gonna vote. Is that majority

Mtais said: "This being said, all this criticizing of politicians is very fine but a fact remains: the people elect them, the responsibility to change them and change the system is the people's. I know they are being brain-washed and "can't see" how they are being led on, but it's still their responsibility."
Its deeper than that, I,m afraid. Yes the people elect them, but who chooses the nominees? The party,private interests etc. You will notice that many major corporations give money to both sides, insuring they own the winner.
People have to choose between as Capt. jack Aubrey said" the lesser of two weevils" Why choose evil at all? Plus the American electorate is just plumb dumb. They react to fear, The (choose one commies, nazis, muslims,mexicans,atheists) are coming and they'll destroy America as we know it. Vote for me. Has nobody yet figured out that campaign promises almost never come true. Obama is a great example.. hope and change. he knows something of what America needs but can't deliver. he gets into office and finds out what reality is, Vested interests and a swollen bureauocracy afraid to lose their jobs rule. The system is rotten. It was good once, lets not throw it away but it needs serious revision.
And the electorate needs to stop listening to Limbaugh and Fox news.

[Rani]

[quote name='TheScotsman' date='29 June 2010 - 10:45 PM' timestamp='1277876742' post='473373']
pelosi and company are using you as the waterboy for their partisan politics, and you are falling for it.

they want to attach BS to it, call it an emergency spending, and not subject to pay-go, then cry like babies when it doesn't pass. that is stupid. they want to pass garbage people don't want, then sit there and ridicule the other side when the bill fails because of the rules they themselves attached to it. Who would fall for that tactic again? What's next? outlaw cars, and attach it to a bill granting every resident 100,000$... then go fire everyone up about not getting their 100,000$, when the real goal is outlawing cars? Your dem party in action again.

If it's so important, lets see it stand alone, and be presented for a vote, not suppressed by the socialists, er, I mean democrats before it is even brought to the floor. Hey, I have an idea, everyone go to to the harpie-of-the-house's (aka "the word" pelosi's) website, and tell her to bring a clean bill to the floor without adding allot of unfunded BS, and not trying to bring it under a rules suspension, where 2/3rds are required to pass it. After all, the dems COULD have brought in to the floor as a regular bill, and it would have passed easily. Instead, they want to add 35 billion to the budget, and suspend their own rules because they are chickenshit, and like to talk reduced spending... at least until they have to find the $ to pay for something.

Democrats brought up the bill under a special procedure in which no amendments were allowed and debate was limited. Under the procedure, the bill needed a two-thirds majority to pass. The vote was 261-155, short of the two-thirds needed. It was a dem attempt to blackmail the reps into either supporting their bs, or facing the sheeple that can't understand the nature of the political game. Besides, it looks like there were 16 of your worship-worthy dems voting against it. Why don't you mention them???? your activist-bias is showing again. After all, if those 16 democrats would have supported the bill, guess what... that would have been the 2/3 needed. But wait, it can't be the fault of 16 democrats that decided the vote against it, it has to be the evil republicans.

All but two of the Democrats are members of the fiscally conservative Blue Dog Coalition. The 14 Blue Dogs were: Reps. Marion Berry (Ark.), Travis Childers (Miss.), Jim Cooper (Tenn.), Joe Donnelly (Ind.), Jim Marshall (Ga.), Betsy Markey (Colo.), Frank Kratovil (Md.), Baron Hill (Ind.), Stephanie Herseth Sandlin (S.D.), Walt Minnick (Idaho), Glenn Nye (Va.), Bobby Bright (Ala.) and Heath Shuler (N.C.). The other two were Reps. John Adler (N.J.) and Melissa Bean (Ill.). (shamelessly poached from [url="http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/801-economy/106289-house-lines-up-second-vote-on-unemployment-benefits"]HERE[/url])

They passed pay-go, then want to ignore it when they have to pay for a bill, and make hard choices --- how useless can they be?
The country is out of other people's money to give away, it's all gone. China has no more they want to loan on a high risk investment like the USA.


[u]
My grandchildren shouldn't have to pay for your unemployment, period-end, of story.[/u]




I think I am going to join Mustafabey in the no pork/no lobby party/no corporate donations idea. The only other reform I would like to see would be removing party affiliation from any ballot and all advertising for the last 60 days before any election. While we are at it, how about a requirement that every bill is no more than 100 pages, and has one topic only, or that each topic is voted on individually.
[/quote]

Scotsman, you have got to get over the "it's all the Democrats fault" mentality It's both parties at fault, Scotsman, not just the Democrats. I had this discussion in depth with Eric once upon a time. He had a great deal of knowledge about the actual steps required to take a bill from idea to law and he finally managed to convince me that the reason things are bundled is because the one problem, one vote would slow things down dramatically. Both parties are actually equally guilty of bundling riders together. A little research would prove almost every single bill put forward by either party had plenty of riders and went back and forth before passing. And I get why they do it, but sometimes you just need to look at what you're doing, admit it's not working, and STOP.

Both parties tend to have these grandiose schemes so they can boast of "sweeping change" at their next election rally. And we all know it's all bullshit. But we've become tired, and apathetic, and we let them get away with it. In our technology we have today, every single bill needs to be broken down in simple language, put on a Congressional website and people allowed to vote electronically yay or nay, and our representatives in turn vote accordingly by the will of the people. Would certainly speed things up a hell of a lot and maybe they could get back to the one problem resolved at a time because they wouldn't have to filibuster about anything at all. They'd get the stats off the website of what their constituents want and vote accordingly. Their vote could be posted back to the stats on the website, and then we can actually review how they voted election time. Because right now it's damned near impossible for the average citizen at home to tell how his Congressperson actually voted on any individual issue. We're at the mercy of the media and they're certainly never biased are they?

As my original post mentioned both parties are so much at fault it's ridiculous. In an emergency case like this one, they shouldn't be bundling, and the Republicans shouldn't be yelling a simple no. Because I'm pretty damn sure they can pass one provision and not another. Just as the guy who writes the check gets to make the rules, so the guy who makes the laws gets to utilize them.

EDIT: And in my original post I blamed both parties equally and asked that everyone bitch at both parties equally.

'Rani

[Rani]

Bottom line is I think WE THE PEOPLE need to be more involved, louder, demand that we utilize the available technology to get better influence into our law makers. Hell, Scotsman and I are both pretty politically active and on opposite sides generally, but when was the last time either one of us did a search to see what's in the pipeline we didn't already know about? It's been weeks since I did, how about you Scotsman? Just a "what the hell is my government doing today?" kind of look-see? We don't. Nobody dues until it's part of their job as a lobbyist. Hell, even our lawmakers themselves don't have a clue what's in the other parties pipeline. Until we start getting more involved, until we start getting louder, and become the squeaky wheel demanding to be properly maintained and not just greased, these decrepit old fools are going to continue to run us into the ground. It's up to us to stop them, and it's not just with a vote every four or six years. We have to start yelling. Until they listen.

'Rani

[Dr. B]

[quote name='mustafabey' date='29 June 2010 - 04:13 PM' timestamp='1277846022' post='473308']
One wonders what would happen to the American government if we got rid of pork,lobbyists and devised an electoral system free of cash donations. None of this exists in the Constitution
[/quote]

It's called germaneness when additions to bills must be relevant to the initial proposal. Texas has it indoctrinated in its constitution. Say what you will about our political majority but at least I take some comfort in attributing our legal problems with the super short legislative sessions and not pork and fat.

I like lobbying in theory; but in practice the deep pockets are the only ones affecting any real legislation. This disheartens me.

[laronde20]

I hate being unemployed! Im glad I just got two jobs, I can start paying for supplies now

[brasssmunkye]

i'm not very happy with the unemployment system as it is.....

the business i worked for went out of business, i had 3 days notice.
i didn't get unemployment because i had only worked there for 6 months, and didn't have a job before that...
but, people who work somewhere for over a year, then get FIRED for being a terrible employee etc, STILL GET UNEMPLOYMENT.
so, i'm probably not going to be able to keep my house after this month (barely was able to get rent the past two months)

a friend of mine has been crashing on my couch for the past couple months and helping out with bills and whatnot with his unemployment....
he JUST got another extention, then it was revoked after one check due to this change in extensions...
wouldn't bother me much, but as far as i know there was no warning... which is really screwing us over to the point that we can't pay our bills
but, i can't say I'm too mad about the extension thing... he is abusing unemployment, not legitimately looking for a new job or anything

[Rani]

[quote name='brasssmunkye' date='14 July 2010 - 03:31 PM' timestamp='1279146705' post='475054']
i'm not very happy with the unemployment system as it is.....

the business i worked for went out of business, i had 3 days notice.
i didn't get unemployment because i had only worked there for 6 months, and didn't have a job before that...
but, people who work somewhere for over a year, then get FIRED for being a terrible employee etc, STILL GET UNEMPLOYMENT.
so, i'm probably not going to be able to keep my house after this month (barely was able to get rent the past two months)

a friend of mine has been crashing on my couch for the past couple months and helping out with bills and whatnot with his unemployment....
he JUST got another extention, then it was revoked after one check due to this change in extensions...
wouldn't bother me much, but as far as i know there was no warning... which is really screwing us over to the point that we can't pay our bills
but, i can't say I'm too mad about the extension thing... he is abusing unemployment, not legitimately looking for a new job or anything
[/quote]

Honestly while abuses occur in every system and even within every business, I kinda have to lay this one on your doorstep too, because you should be telling your friend..... "I'm helping you so long as you're willing to help yourself and look for a job, but I'm not going to help you scam the system, so start looking." Yet, I also see where you're coming from because he's helping you. I agree the system needs overhaul. As does just about everything else in our broken government.

'Rani

[brasssmunkye]

[quote name='Rani' date='14 July 2010 - 06:04 PM' timestamp='1279159484' post='475083']
[quote name='brasssmunkye' date='14 July 2010 - 03:31 PM' timestamp='1279146705' post='475054']
i'm not very happy with the unemployment system as it is.....

the business i worked for went out of business, i had 3 days notice.
i didn't get unemployment because i had only worked there for 6 months, and didn't have a job before that...
but, people who work somewhere for over a year, then get FIRED for being a terrible employee etc, STILL GET UNEMPLOYMENT.
so, i'm probably not going to be able to keep my house after this month (barely was able to get rent the past two months)

a friend of mine has been crashing on my couch for the past couple months and helping out with bills and whatnot with his unemployment....
he JUST got another extention, then it was revoked after one check due to this change in extensions...
wouldn't bother me much, but as far as i know there was no warning... which is really screwing us over to the point that we can't pay our bills
but, i can't say I'm too mad about the extension thing... he is abusing unemployment, not legitimately looking for a new job or anything
[/quote]

Honestly while abuses occur in every system and even within every business, I kinda have to lay this one on your doorstep too, because you should be telling your friend..... "I'm helping you so long as you're willing to help yourself and look for a job, but I'm not going to help you scam the system, so start looking." Yet, I also see where you're coming from because he's helping you. I agree the system needs overhaul. As does just about everything else in our broken government.

'Rani



[/quote]

yeah, i'm not really helping him in any way, he kinda came up to visit (roommates friend) and he liked being back up here, so when he came to visit we just told him he's welcome to stay, sleep on the couch or whatever as long as he chips in a bit for bills
he hated living in stockton

the only thing that really sucks about them denying extensions... is that he was already approved, got one check, then apparently they denied him after the first check, which just sucks because there was no notice to try and get affairs in order

[ClearwaterGuy]

[quote name='TheScotsman' date='30 June 2010 - 01:45 AM' timestamp='1277876742' post='473373']
They passed pay-go, then want to ignore it when they have to pay for a bill, and make hard choices --- how useless can they be?
The country is out of other people's money to give away, it's all gone. China has no more they want to loan on a high risk investment like the USA.
[/quote]

The Republicans want to ignore pay-go even more. All this talk about extending the Bush tax cuts, where does money come from? It comes from the fed and goes straight into the deficit. When GW took office he openly stated his intent to use up all of the money in our surplus, which he did and more, by cutting away the government revenue collected by the wealthiest 2%.

The problem is that conservatives are the ones who perceive a government surplus as a waste. That money can go to paying off the total national debt, or other unforeseen things that require more spending.

The Democrats generally collect the revenue to pay for what they spend, while the Republicans cut away a significant portion of the government's revenue and don't nearly cut as much in spending as necessary to balance that out. That makes the Republican party worse for reducing the national debt than the Democratic party.

And what exactly is China going to do? They are as dependent on us as we are dependent on them and their entire national stability depends on continuing business with it. A vast amount of the Chinese labour force supplies the demands of West. The markets are all connected. It's not as if the Chinese are going to adapt a Juche policy, it doesn't work for a nation of one billion people.