Gun Laws

[Scarecrow]

[quote name='gunsboy']Nice collection ... I wanna join a gun club but on the
east coast we have very limited options and we don't
have good ranges for hand guns or restricted
weapons. [/quote]

By east coast what province? Are you a member of CGN? All the Canadian gun owners on the net hang over there.

[DarthHookah]

is that a friggin Luger in those pics? yikes! i havent seen one of those for less than a grand. and a real walther P38? not a P38/P1? impressive. most impressive.

[Sonthert]

My father had a Walther P38. He got it during his stint fighting in WWII. My sister insisted that she get it when he passed away. I don't know why...at least I've shot a gun before. 

[ghostofdavid]

[quote name='Scarecrow']What you think is the Hakim is the gun its based off of, the AG42B from
sweden. The Czech guns we get are infact built on old machinegun
receivers somehow, selector still goes into the 3rd position, but its
welded up and grinded inside, would take quite a bit of welding and
milling to bring it back to FA. However I know US gun laws, and you
have A) an import ban on assault rifles, home grown is fine now though.
BATF decided once a machinegun, always a machinegun, you'd need to
start from a bare receiver. The only reason we get them in Canada is a
technicality cause they where supposebly never assembled receivers

Anyhow the folding black rifle next to my rubin 1911 is a SG550/PE90
rifle called a "Black Special". Its a swiss assault rifle thats
marketed under SIG. Soon you'll see a bastardized version from SIGARMS.

My M4 is a model 1 sales upper on a Canadian made lower with an Israeli sling.

Wish I had more up to date pics of my benelli M4 and others. I love collecting WW2 and postwar guns.[/quote]I have already bought and paid for the American release of th SG550. I will not receive it until as late as November. I am very, very excited to get my hands on the "556." It will be my first rifle that is not comblock. I cannot wait!

[DarthHookah]

yeah, i only have a walther P38/P1. same basic model, except that the firing pin is shaped differently, and the frame is an aluminum alloy instead of steel, so it is lighter. also, it was made in 1967. its still an awesome freakin gun, though. won me some money at tournaments.

[Scarecrow]

My luger is a Finnish model with 5" barrel. The barrel is actually made
by Tikka who if you dint already know makes some fine rifles. 
Here it is next to my Tikka captured Nagant:

[url="http://img482.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc000450ma.jpg"][img]http://img482.imageshack.us/img482/9849/dsc000450ma.th.jpg[/img]


As for my P38 its a real P38, AC44 (walther made in 1944) its in
excellent condition and I got a holster for it. Got all the swastikas
and proofs along with it. The origional German owner scratched his
initials into the grips on one side.  In the 3 handgun picture the
complete top gun is a Nazi Radom from around the 1944 period that was
used after the war by german police, kind of rounds out the picture.
Here is a crappy picture of the P38 up close:
[img]http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/9431/p38244iw.th.jpg[/img]

The SG550 is an awesome gun. I dont know how the US made version will
stack up, you have to realize the swiss test shoot these rifles and if
1 of them doesnt reach there accuracy standard (1.1MOA or less I
beleive) they take apart all the machinery and re-tool and calibrate
everything. Here is a pic of my friend shooting it, he was quite
impressed by the quality:
[img]http://img482.imageshack.us/img482/5882/dsc000091ha.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[Scheetz]

kinda brought back from the dead but im also 1 for gun laws.  i agree with alot of what is said. i myself in about 7 months will be appearing in class for my concealed weapon permit in VA.  I meant to take a run to the gun meet down the street from me to see if I could pick up an ak if they had any. im an avid skeet shooter, target shooter, and at the age of 12 was a master marksmen with the young guns NRA shooting group. It took me half the time to max my rank then everyone else. At the end of the season I was even offered a spot on the junior olympic team for summer. my dumbass declined, wish i hadnt though.
i cant imagine carrying outside and not concealed. just the looks i would get would kinda weird me out. however, when you do see someone in a starbucks or a local store with a gun you feel somewhat safer knowing that if something was going to happen that guy will probably do something. well if he feels he is in danger.
i not only want to carry because of the wack jobs i see everyday, but also my business i plan to own is going to pull some pretty rowdy people. the thought of being robbed hasnt left my mind after walking accross the street from a college party and less than 1 minute later my friend trying to catch up was robbed at gun point right behind me. out of most of my family close to 60 percent have been robbed in their lifetime or had their car stolen at gun point.  I wouldnt count myself out either.  my number will be up soon, i plan to do something about it though.
a funny joke (i use joke loosely)i heard if its really a joke, mind you dont take it seriously, cause these are the types of people who if they did this, shouldnt be carrying.
2 men who didnt know each other were in a eisle reaching for some goldfish. there was only 1 box left and both of them wanted it. when man number 1 reached for it, number 2 showed him his carry and said "do you really want that box of goldfish"
stupid yes, not really funny well maybe. but its these people that scare the sh*t out of me.

[Sonthert]

I had a rather profound experience, that somehow relates to guns and the protection of our basic freedoms and liberties: I lay out sticky traps and a good sized roof rat got stuck on the thing. It was squirming around and moved the trap a good two feet. The son of a bitch had ripped half of his guts out trying to get free of the thing. I guess some people (things) are so dedicated to being free they're willing to tear themselves open to do it. In a way, I'd like to be more like that rat, and I think most Americans would be more appreciative of this country if they were more like that rat, this country was built by the founding fathers with that same attitude. It was all built with guns. Now, just because we "made it" we can forget what it took and may take again to be free? Not in my lifetime, man. Regulate them yes, but when you stop us from owning guns, you take away the lethal backing to our desire for freedom. "They" can take our freedom without worrying about consequences. That's it. I hope somebody else found the rat story inspiring in a manner.

[Lakemonster]

Indeed.
Seems to be a fundemental instinct....

[Scheetz]

lol at roof rats, where they this big

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[c4r80n]

Guns. Why do more americans kill each other than canadians when they have more guns per person than we do?I like the right of owning a gun, but in reality, it doesn't do me any purpose.I live in california, where you can buy a gun, but only get it 14 days after you buy it. But then you can't carry in public unless you have a permit. You can drive it somewhere, as long as the bullets are at least 5 feet away. And you can't shoot it, unless you are at a fireing range.Guns are toys for most people. Very few carry it on themselves for protection. Besides, if you shoot someone mugging you or whatnot, youll end up on the shorter end of the stick...unless they have a gun as well.Anyways,  I think the people who aren't supposed to have guns, are going to get them anyways, regaurdless of laws. So it's useless.

[Lakemonster]

It depends on where you are.
 
different states have different laws about the use of lethal force.... and where and how you transport a firearm.
 
For instance. In Texas you can use lethal force if YOU feel that your life is in danger or if YOU feel your property is threatened.
 
If in the home.. it doesnt make a damn.... if they come in.... they are fair game.
 
Hell...... I can shoot someone trying to steal my truck.. and I dont even have to be in it.... I can shoot someone trying to cut the lock on my tool shed.
 
I carry an Ak-47 on the passenger side of my cab.
 
Its a mindset thing.
 
"An armed society is a polite society."

[DarthHookah]

tang- your tale about the rat was indeed very inspiring. im sure many americans now would prefer that someone else set them free. they want everything wrapped in plastic, all nice and safe where no one gets hurt. i say f**k that.

[Buford]

I own three pistols, a rifle, a shotgun, and a blackpowder revolver:Kimber Stainless 1911 (.45 ACP)CZ-85 Combat (9mm)Kahr P9 Covert (9mm)Yugoslav M59/66A SKS (7.62x39mm)Remington 870 Express Magnum (12 gauge)Remington 1858 New Model Army (.44) - working Civil War era design replica I got the shotgun when I was 14, and used it for several years as a squirrel hunting gun. My dad has a bunch of rifles and shotguns, and also has my grandfather's old .32 S&W "lemonsqueezer" revolver from either the 30s or 40s. It's never been fired more than 5 times or so - still has the mostly-full original box of ammo that was bought with it.That blackpowder revolver is a lot of fun, but it's messy as hell to clean that thing up after shooting it. It's also a lot of hassle to load and shoot it (as the ammo components are separate - no cartridges), so I don't do it very often.Here in VA concealed (and open carry) is more prevalent than you would think. I myself carry the Kimber whenever I leave the house and have been for nearly 5 years. I keep the other two pistols loaded and in strategic locations at home.The rifle was more of something I picked up as a toy, and I've never run more than about 150-200 rounds through it. It's old military surplus, and even has a (useless) grenade launcher attached. I pretty much picked it up on a whim, cost me about $170.The laws here in VA aren't perfect, but they're pretty good overall. No waiting periods, no restrictions on ammo, no registration, no owner licensing, unrestricted private (non-dealer) sale, etc. Full-auto and "destructive device" BATFE classed firearms (with one exception) are legal here as well, provided you meet the federal requirements. There is still a remnant of one-gun-a-month still on the books, but concealed carry permit holders are exempt.I've never had to use a firearm for anything but hunting or target shooting, and I'd prefer to keep it that way. However, I do carry in case that day ever does come. VA doesn't have a "stand your ground" statute like CO or FL, but one isn't really necessary as VA case law backs up that interpretation.

[DarthHookah]

i just heard from a friend of mine that a woman in ohio was transporting an unloaded gun in her trunk in a locked case, and she was arrested for carrying a concealed weapon without a permit. is this true? what the fuck else are we supposed to do?

[Lakemonster]

IF the story does turn out to be true, then it would be another one of those annoying cases of passing legislation with a badge.Sometimes folks get arrested and have to prove themselves in court. This is what is called a Rap/ride situation. Police can arrest and let you stand trial..... pay bail/bond/attorney.... and or any court fees and lost time away from work. If they know you can beat the Rap, they figure the "ride" will at least punish you.Yes, this works great when it gets a crack dealer off the corner. It sucks when a soccer mom gets pulled over on the way home from the indoor firing range.I respect cops. I know the job is hard and dangerous.... but it doesnt give them the right to stretch things and use the system to railroad you into the ground. (note that all cops are not this way.)I like crime off my street... but at what price?

[ghostofdavid]

I doubt it would be true. Those are meeting federal requirements for the transportation of firearms. Packing.org is a great resource for firearm information as I am constanting take guns in and out of Ohio.

[Sonthert]

Ohio, that was the state that recently arrested a man for drunk driving from the passenger's seat. He was sitting in the passenger's seat and his friend was driving and he got arrested for DUI. True story...if you can trust CNN. I think there's something wrong with Ohio cops. Ohio is also the only state I ever got a speeding ticket in.

[DarthHookah]

i have gotten speeding tickets in pennsylvania, virginia, ohio, and i think florida. i consider them to be annual fees for driving.

[ghostofdavid]

I've actually never had a speeding ticket in my life. That said, I expect to receive one in the next few days or so. Darth: Do you ever go to Target World in Sharonville?In an unrelated note, remember when politics involved fighting for rights in the other guy or in the belief system that you did not subscribe to. For example, when our founding fathers started this country it was for the rights to exercise how YOU saw fit to do things. Now, when people fight, it is for what THEY see fit and THEIR right to do "x". I know that is not necessarily deep or mind shattering, but something to think about if you have already not.

[Sonthert]

This is spillover from a conversation that Ghost of David and I were having over on the terrorism thread. I should point out that George Washington and the founding fathers strongly warned against maintaining a standing army, its what did Rome in, its what will do us in. Without a standing army, what else are you to do? Have the second amendment. Many of the provisions of the constitution are there to protect against a "counterfeit government". Thats why the president must be at least 35 years old...to prevent illegitamit takeovers that had a child leader backed by a regency. Moreover, that government would certainly ban owning guns, since there was no standing army, we'd be defenseless.

[GuyWithTheGun]

Okay, first my little intro and then my insight.The past two years, I've worked the Sporting Goods counter at my local wal-mart, and I've learned a lot about guns and the people who own them. Let me assure you that at Wal-Mart, we are actually discouraged from selling firearms, and the only reason we do is because Sam Walton wanted it that way and nobody has gotten around to changing it. They've taken them out of the "bottom" 1000 stores, leaving only 600 or so stores left with them. My store happens to be one.Now, I think a big issue is the type of guns being sold. There's a big difference between a scoped .30-06 bolt action Remington 700, and a 14-inch barrel on a shotgun. One is made to kill a human, the other [i]could[/i]kill one, but it's really made for other reasons. I believe the sale of a firearm intended solely to harm another human being (riot shotguns, pistols, assault rifles, etc) should be more closely regulated than guns made to put holes in animals and targets. A person who buys the bolt action rifle is much less likely to kill a person than the person who buys that shotgun. I don't have any statistics, but I can guarantee you most gun crime isn't perpetrated by sporting arms. A hunter/sportsman has much more respect for weapon safety than your average citizen. Their weapons tend to stay securely locked, their non-alcohol related firearms accidents are lower. Hell, I've met dedicated alcoholics that refused to hunt because they had too much to drink.But I'm not saying they're perfect. There are a fair number of hunting accidents, but less of them are fatal than violent crime.I advocate hunting, even though I'm not a hunter. I think it's important for a kid to look at that animal through the rifle scope and decide right there how willing he is to take a life. I think many of our nations hungry can be fed with food found in the wild, such as deer and boar. Many hunters hunt only for trophies like heads, hides, and taxidermy, among others, but what happens to all that meat? Here in Texas, there's a fairly popular donation program that feeds the homeless in soup kitchens with leftover meat from hunters.Hunting is just a thing that people need, primally, deep down within themselves. Even vegans eat food that simulate meat. It's part of being human.As for the aforementioned assault arms, those are the ones we need to be regulating closer. Those are the arms that crimes are perpetrated with. The second amendment mentions "well-regulated militias", not "every dude that the FBI tells me is totally cool to own a gun". Gun dealers should be more careful who they sell too. Most are too eager to push guns on uneducated people, and this is how accidents and murders happen. Time should be taken, maybe a class not unlike hunter safety education. People need to know the legal ramifications of owning and using their assault arms in defense of themselves and other people. They need to be taught proper cleaning procedures, proper range etiquette, and basic shooting principles.Girls my age are always telling me they've bought a gun, and then immediately ask me to teach them how to shoot. That's the problem. You need to know some stuff before you start plugging holes in things.And one last thing, I don't agree with concealed carry. Handguns should be worn in plain view, at all times, at least 30% of the gun or holster visible. Not only is this a deterrent for potential attackers, but it's also a lot better from a law enforcement standpoint. Your average police officer doesn't conceal his handgun (although some do), so why should we?Anyways, I'll quit rambling now. I'm sure someone is gonna pick this apart and make me look clueless, but that's exactly why I love this issue so much.

[DarthHookah]

sorry guy with a gun, but i disagree with you whole-heartedly. if a man feels the need to have the remington 700, then he should have one. fact- most crimes are not commited with "assault weapons". you are a firearms dealer and you should know that the term "assault weapon" is a misnomer. most crimes are commited with cheap, easy to conceal weapons, such as the raven arms .25 pistol. you can buy one for about 90 bucks, use it, and throw it away. high points are also commonly used. think about it- if you were to commit crime, would you drop the $700+ on an AR-15 rifle that is big and bulky, and is readily identifieble, or a small little revolver that you can stuff in your pocket?since when do off-duty police officers NOT carry? this is the most absurd assumption i have heard yet. cops carry guns, so civilians should carry guns. many guns, concealed so that no criminal would ever know the difference.personal safety is everyones own responsibility. were it otherwise, you would wake up every morning with your own state-issued personal body guard. there is no law until the law arrives. if you are attacked on the street, you are ON YOUR OWN until the police arrive. i wish i could calculate the amount of murders that have occured while the victim tried to call 911. all this coming from someone with hunter s. thompsons quote in his signature.Ghost of David- i have many friends who work at target world. i have never purchased a weapon from them, because i dont like paying double (i go to aim surplus), but they do have a range that i use from time to time.

[GuyWithTheGun]

I'm not advocating disarming citizens. I agree with gun laws as they are now, I just don't feel they should extend to other firearms. I wrote that post at about 4am, so let me make myself a little clearer.Education is the cure for ignorance. Yes, a man should be able to own a sporting arm if he desires, because that much is guaranteed to him. Be it a muzzleloading rifle, a centerfire or rimfire, or even a long barrel shotgun, these should be handed over without the intense scrutiny that they get. I just think there should be some sort of basic firearm safety class, to teach a persn the basics. I go to gun stores and the owners are more concerned with shoving a gun down my throat than teaching me to use it.But a handgun? An AR-15? Short barrel shotguns? Are you really going to tell me the primary purpose of these guns isn't to end human life? These are the guns we should be regulating a little closer. I agree, these are the guns crimes are commited with, but with an unregulated, no-permit-required, unconcealed carry law, any citizen who is able to buy a gun is able to carry it, in the open. We do away with cops carrying concealed off duty, and we just let them wear it anyways, out in the open.I wouldn't advocate a ban on any type of weapon, save for explosives, incendiary devices, etc. I just think closely monitoring these weapons and allowing more people to have  the basic needs of home defense, such as a shotgun, or a rifle, or even a handgun, would make the country a lot safer.As for Hunter Thompson, he once imagined his town in Aspen, Colorado with himself as Mayor, shortly after he ran for Sheriff of that same town. His vision was one without tourists, where the police wouldn't carry firearms, only pepper spray/mace and an electrical stun device. He was a big advocate of self-defense, but he also had the sense to realize that guns help crimes be commited. But if everyone is allowed a basic gun, as is their right, that is unable to be easily concealed, then crime rates would plummet. A gun is most effective against an unarmed opponent. Arm all the opponents, and thus decrease the criminal effectiveness of firearms across the board.Here in Texas, if I had the paperwork with me and the correct licensing (which isn't hard, just expensive), I could theoretically carry a fully automatic AK-47 in the passenger side or back window of my car, or for that matter, slung across my back walking down the street. Why not a handgun?

[Sonthert]

I agree with you, guy with a gun, to some extent. My father always said, "One of the two ways to stop a bear is a .30-06". He owned one, of course. Nice, Darth, but a gun in the home is three times more likely to shoot someone in your own family that you are to stop a burglar or some such bullshirt statistic. Gun laws should only exist to stop stupid and insane people from having guns or at least slow them down as much as possible. Fathers used to teach their sons how to shoot, teach them how to operate a gun responsibly. A gun was associated with a man the same way an apron was associated with a woman. Now that doesn't happen, fathers don't teach their children jack about guns. Own one or not, everybody should know how to use and operate firearms, in my opinion. We should have a national ruling and go with the Texas standard...if they're on your property, you can blast away.