Obama Or Mccain?

[SuburbanSmoker]

So i was having a little chat with one of my buddies about who would win the up an coming election. First it started with just bullshit facts then it really got kinda deep.

Seeing how i am bored at work im curious what people have to say about the two and perspectives on who is going to win, and why.


And just to add a little of my own fuel to the fire, i think if the obama homosexual accusations gain any following, the suspicion alone will cost him many votes. (im not in any way a sexist just the reallity of the world we live in)

[Mahir]

Obama

[Big Boss]

I don't know who I'm going to vote for yet.

[Bulldog_916]

Obama, for sure. McCain has lobbyists from the energy companies where he said he would fight special interests. He is for drilling off the state coasts where before he was against it. He was against the Bush tax cuts and now he is for them. I would have voted for the McCain of 2000, not this shell of a wannabe maverick that we have now.

[TheScotsman]

Man, what a choice! get beat in the head with a hammer, or a different hammer.

McCain=3rd Bush term, sorta

Obama=2nd Carter term.

Obama's numbers don't work out on his "plans" at all. He really hasn't said anything of any real substance, no real, true ideas, just a flapping mouth. Seems to appeal to the people who really don't look past the rhetoric. Has had some questionable dealings, and a few that appear downright criminal. Government by fear of reality.


McCain's just another old geezer that needed to retire long ago. Can't count on what he says for anything! i just another "big gov't" republicasaurus looking to bloat a system with more laws, prisons, and abridgment of our rights in the name of some made-up terrorism boogeyman. Government by fear of terrorism.

Economically, Obama will do more damage to industry, but McCain will finish tanking the USD. Anyone that votes for Obama has zero right to complain about their coming $6.50/gal petrol. Guess it's time to buy some good walking shoes, and hang on for the BS ride.

[boulderkid303]

Obama 08!!!!

Its time for change.

[Bulldog_916]

Man, what a choice! get beat in the head with a hammer, or a different hammer.

McCain=3rd Bush term, sorta

Obama=2nd Carter term.

Obama's numbers don't work out on his "plans" at all. He really hasn't said anything of any real substance, no real, true ideas, just a flapping mouth. Seems to appeal to the people who really don't look past the rhetoric. Has had some questionable dealings, and a few that appear downright criminal. Government by fear of reality.


McCain's just another old geezer that needed to retire long ago. Can't count on what he says for anything! i just another "big gov't" republicasaurus looking to bloat a system with more laws, prisons, and abridgment of our rights in the name of some made-up terrorism boogeyman. Government by fear of terrorism.

Economically, Obama will do more damage to industry, but McCain will finish tanking the USD. Anyone that votes for Obama has zero right to complain about their coming $6.50/gal petrol. Guess it's time to buy some good walking shoes, and hang on for the BS ride.

It should be higher than that. The only way to shift Americans' thinking is by hitting them in the pocket book. The Prius has only done well in the era of $3.00 a gallon gas. The Honda CVX that runs on natural gas at under $2.00 a gallon is only available in California and New York. WTF is that about? The price of gas is hurting me too, but it's going to do us no good for it to get a little bit cheaper in the short term. You can drill and drill and drill until you get gas down to $3.00 a gallon. Then it's only a matter of time before demand once again outstrips supply. Then price returns to $4-5 a gallon. Demand for gasoline is falling, but price is rising, absolutely counter to market fundamentals. That means you have to slash demand further. That means cleaner technology, hydrogen fuel cells, natural gas, electric cars, etc. This is going to take massive infrastructure changes, mass transit investment, changes in thinking, changes in habit, etc. We cant live this way anymore.

If we go by McCain's plan we'll be back to 3.50 a gallon gas by 2015, if we get there at all. There needs to be a change of minds in the Whitehouse. I dont think Obama is just a bunch of hollow speeches. You dont pay enough attention if you think he doesnt have actual bulleted plans behind what he's saying. You're letting the rhetoric overshadow the specifics.

[NoPeace]

obama definetly but not by too much cause all the moderates are gonna start getting persuaded my mccains filthy bush like antics and so its gonna be like a few moderates with all the liberals and about half the republicans for obama and the majority of the moderates mccain and about half the republicans for mccain

[TheScotsman]

It goes allot farther than shifting some one's view, and such a statement shows a definite lack of understanding, or forethought. Drive your prius, but do you think your prius is going to harvest a crop? How about getting it to market? Any prius-based petrochemical fertilizers? Every penny of added fuel cost is going to hit YOU and your prius driving granola-crunching-whale-worshiping-city dwellers right in the lunch box. Fuel costs have driven the planting cost of spring wheat into the 200$/acre range. Figure a bushel of wheat is costing the farmer about $5.00 before employees. About 35% over last year. Hope you can eat that prius! Hawaii is seeing a gallon of orange juice for $10.00... because of transport cost. Higher fuel cost hits the lower income worst, good plan there, tell the single mom working a min wage job to go get a prius!

Allot more to oil cost than transportation, how about heating cost. What do you think $3.50/gal crude is going to do to heating costs this fall? Just who do you think that hurts the worst? Hint... not the higher income people.

Obamessiah wants a capitol gains increase, then we all switch to munis, no taxes there, and the economy slips a bit farther into the crapper. It will be easy to just move away from the taxes, and weather the four years he is in office.

Windfall profits tax for oil companies, good idea... they make about 8 cents on a gallon, the gov't gets 46 cents... Now who is getting the windfall, tell me again?

Come on... he said "Uhhhh" 144 times in an 11 minute press conference... I guess the golden tongue doesn't work if he can't read a prepared speech on a teleprompter. Any time he can he has used race as a tool to his benefit, respect that if you want, but I think it is the chickenshit way out of a situation without addressing the issues.

Reality sucks, doesn't it! Obamamessiah did SO much good in Illinois, I guess we all need some of that on a national level.

[derogatory]

I think they both suck pretty bad. I'm waiting to see who their running mates will be before I decide. I hate the two-party system.

[Stuie]

I am with derogatory. I am going to do what I have been doing for years - Libertarian Vote - Bob Barr!

I agree with them on principle, but honestly its doing whatever I can to shift us away from a 2 party system. If they aren't on the ballot in Texas, I will vote for whoever else isn't a Dem or Rep.

4 More years of heavy drinking to drown the sorrows of another dem or rep in the white house.

[Endlesssummer63]

mccain baby. oboma is a socialist. nationalized healthcare!!! come on people we dont live in "A Brave New World". Haven't you all seen socialism fail before? this man and his socialist agenda has to be stopped. This country was made on core principles that the liberal/democratic party has failed to acknowledge. Like allowing CA judges to make law from the bench when they ruled on gay marriage!!!!!!

come on people do you all really want to pay for the bum on the side street to get the same medical coverage as you after you work endless hours in the office/job??? You dont get a choice! it will be another social security! no choice and most of us will never see that money. why dont we just let the government wipe our asses while there at it.

Seriously... what the F is oboma going to change? huh..... He has been a senator for 2 years. why do you think this man can run a country? this is insane.

[Winter]

Obama 08!!!!

Its time for change.

This is the kind of stuff I can't stand; when people spew this garbage over and over and over again. Okay, we understand that Obama has great speeches that inspire not only the youth, but the middle aged as well, but do you REALLY think he has any experience at all? I have barely heard him actually state how he's going to change certain things. Shit, I can stand on a platform and promise things too.

I don't know who to vote for either. There are pros and cons in both candidates. I'm going to have to agree with derogatory and wait for their running mates before I vote.

[boulderkid303]

Winter tell me what just does experience get us????? Nothing! Bush has way more experience than kerry ddi, and look where it has gotten us. Another thing is yes I DO believe in change, no one has ever gotten me more motivated than obama. And I dont know if you missed it or not, but al gore mad some fantastic points in his backing of obama about his experience issue. And im sorry, but I gotta say fuck mccain he is the same as bush, and no im not saying the shit hilary was saying like mcbush. But if mccain is elected it will be the same administration 90% of it will stay in place, but a different devil running hell.

Vote Obama 08!

[TheScotsman]

Obama 08!!!!

Its time for change.

Sounds a bit like...

"The change we must make isn't liberal or
conservative." Bill clinton in 92.


If all he's got is some lame call for change he can join the ranks of every other non-incumbent using that mantra throughout history. The funny part is all the zombies willing to carry that torch another round, talk about a lack of new material!

Obama for change... Hmmmm anyone notice that Jimmy Carters 1976 slogan was " A Leader for Change"?
1984, Walter Mondale's slogan was "America needs a Change" Your messiah is in some telling company there. Remember, not all change is good, and change without a valid clear plan of action is foolish at best. Just how do you figure John Khon has less experience than Curious George? proof? basis of such a statement?

On the other hand, McCain was brown-nosing the the Hispanics, and had the gall to say Spanish was the first language spoken in his state of Arizona. Obviously he's a retard.

The devil could take them both, and I'd thank him for his trouble.

[boulderkid303]

but with our system you must pick the lesser of the 2 evil's do you not? IMO that is obama. And yes not all change is good, but it cannot get any worse than it is now.

[Mahir]

+1

[jezter6]

In the lesser of two evils (because I'm not for McCain, but I despise Osama bin Obama) - I'll take the fiscal conservative over the tax-n-spend liberal.

I hate the christian right telling me how to raise my children and I hate the tree hugging left telling me that I'm killing the ozone with my SUV and that I'm not allowed to smoke anywhere near other people because they might get (oh my god please NO!!! ) second hand smoke.

At this point, politicians on both sides have made us so PC that we can't ever go back to normal living. All this watching out for everyone else but ourselves has killed this country. I have nothing agasint people - but it's not my job to make their life comfortable. I'm tired of giving my money to crack fiends on welfare who don't want to work. I'm tired of NOT drilling for oil in a land not inhabited by anyone (and is pretty much not inhabitable ANYWAYS) for the sake of a seal or two when I'm paying $5 a gallon for gas.

But - in the 'who is less evil' I'll have to take an old crazy man over an over idealistic man who screams for (as pointed out above) change for the sake of change. You can rally up all you want - but in the end, will the policies the man puts in place be beneficial to me? No way. Maybe to others, but I'm not voting for how a candidate benefits others.

[Dr. Atkins]

You ARE killing the ozone with your SUV... asshole

[TheScotsman]

You ARE killing the ozone with your SUV... asshole

wow, aren't you just the genius with words.

[John Stuart Mill]

Obama can woo the masses, and much of what you need is confidence. If people think our country has vision they will be filled with vitality. Industries change their perception of the country and invest; it’s a cycle that builds on itself. For instance, Putin initiated numerous beneficial changes to the Russian economy, but his greatest gift may have been the confidence he exuded. Despite what many believe, growth has been substantial in industry, services and finance. The percentage of their GDP from natural resources is decreasing despite favorable pricing. Was it sudden change in actual governmental action that facilitated this? No, his reforms in the grand scheme of things did little aside from the confidence they engendered. Banks began to flourish in a market were Russians began investing at home. Even the efficiency of the average Russian worker improved under his reign. I’m not commenting on his politics, but rather his incredible ability to rally the Russian people. We could use a charismatic and ambitious man in the white house.

[Bulldog_916]

It goes allot farther than shifting some one's view, and such a statement shows a definite lack of understanding, or forethought. Drive your prius, but do you think your prius is going to harvest a crop? How about getting it to market? Any prius-based petrochemical fertilizers? Every penny of added fuel cost is going to hit YOU and your prius driving granola-crunching-whale-worshiping-city dwellers right in the lunch box. Fuel costs have driven the planting cost of spring wheat into the 200$/acre range. Figure a bushel of wheat is costing the farmer about $5.00 before employees. About 35% over last year. Hope you can eat that prius! Hawaii is seeing a gallon of orange juice for $10.00... because of transport cost. Higher fuel cost hits the lower income worst, good plan there, tell the single mom working a min wage job to go get a prius!

Allot more to oil cost than transportation, how about heating cost. What do you think $3.50/gal crude is going to do to heating costs this fall? Just who do you think that hurts the worst? Hint... not the higher income people.

Obamessiah wants a capitol gains increase, then we all switch to munis, no taxes there, and the economy slips a bit farther into the crapper. It will be easy to just move away from the taxes, and weather the four years he is in office.

Windfall profits tax for oil companies, good idea... they make about 8 cents on a gallon, the gov't gets 46 cents... Now who is getting the windfall, tell me again?

Come on... he said "Uhhhh" 144 times in an 11 minute press conference... I guess the golden tongue doesn't work if he can't read a prepared speech on a teleprompter. Any time he can he has used race as a tool to his benefit, respect that if you want, but I think it is the chickenshit way out of a situation without addressing the issues.

Reality sucks, doesn't it! Obamamessiah did SO much good in Illinois, I guess we all need some of that on a national level.

Obama 08!!!!

Its time for change.

This is the kind of stuff I can't stand; when people spew this garbage over and over and over again. Okay, we understand that Obama has great speeches that inspire not only the youth, but the middle aged as well, but do you REALLY think he has any experience at all? I have barely heard him actually state how he's going to change certain things. Shit, I can stand on a platform and promise things too.

I don't know who to vote for either. There are pros and cons in both candidates. I'm going to have to agree with derogatory and wait for their running mates before I vote.

Obama 08!!!!

Its time for change.

Sounds a bit like...

"The change we must make isn't liberal or
conservative." Bill clinton in 92.


If all he's got is some lame call for change he can join the ranks of every other non-incumbent using that mantra throughout history. The funny part is all the zombies willing to carry that torch another round, talk about a lack of new material!

Obama for change... Hmmmm anyone notice that Jimmy Carters 1976 slogan was " A Leader for Change"?
1984, Walter Mondale's slogan was "America needs a Change" Your messiah is in some telling company there. Remember, not all change is good, and change without a valid clear plan of action is foolish at best. Just how do you figure John Khon has less experience than Curious George? proof? basis of such a statement?

On the other hand, McCain was brown-nosing the the Hispanics, and had the gall to say Spanish was the first language spoken in his state of Arizona. Obviously he's a retard.

The devil could take them both, and I'd thank him for his trouble.

In the lesser of two evils (because I'm not for McCain, but I despise Osama bin Obama) - I'll take the fiscal conservative over the tax-n-spend liberal.

I hate the christian right telling me how to raise my children and I hate the tree hugging left telling me that I'm killing the ozone with my SUV and that I'm not allowed to smoke anywhere near other people because they might get (oh my god please NO!!! ) second hand smoke.

At this point, politicians on both sides have made us so PC that we can't ever go back to normal living. All this watching out for everyone else but ourselves has killed this country. I have nothing agasint people - but it's not my job to make their life comfortable. I'm tired of giving my money to crack fiends on welfare who don't want to work. I'm tired of NOT drilling for oil in a land not inhabited by anyone (and is pretty much not inhabitable ANYWAYS) for the sake of a seal or two when I'm paying $5 a gallon for gas.

But - in the 'who is less evil' I'll have to take an old crazy man over an over idealistic man who screams for (as pointed out above) change for the sake of change. You can rally up all you want - but in the end, will the policies the man puts in place be beneficial to me? No way. Maybe to others, but I'm not voting for how a candidate benefits others.

Scotsman, I dont drive a fucking Prius, though right now I kinda wish I did. I drive a 2004 Nissan Frontier Crew Cab, nicest vehicle I've ever had the privilege of driving. But chews gas at 20 mpg. I dont want my future to be laden with oilmen trying in vein to get what's left of a shattered oil supply to fuel our nation a little bit longer. THAT is a recipe for DISASTER. Should I be leading by example? Maybe, but example is expensive right now. Obama has an energy plan that doesnt involve drilling into a finite resource. Maybe in the last 8 years we should have been continuing what Clinton started. Bush gutted Clinton's energy policy and took away all regulation in the markets. That is why we have $5 a gallon gas.

For now, I just have to say we have to slog through the toughest times in our energy costs to get to the better times. If we dont start really making a concerted effort to change our ways, we may as well welcome back the stoneage.

Winter, right now, I dont care about experience. I want someone who is going to surround themselves with the best policy minds. They are the ones who make policy, the president just guides them to do what it takes to get it through congress. Just some of the names that have appeared on Obamas VP short list would make great cabinet members. I think he will keep his word when he said he will actually reach across the isle. I trust him, which is far more than I can say for McCain. Is Obama going back on his word about financing the elections publicly? Yep, but think about it. If the republicans had the same advantage in raising money as Obama does, you know they wouldnt go for public funding either. It's common sense. I guess Obama has that doesnt he? LOL

Jezter, that is the most outrageous shit I have heard in my life. First off, who are you to call him Osama bin Obama? Spreading bullshit names like that is tantamount to smearing someone's character cheaply, especially using it from a name who instills so much terror in Americans' minds today. Obama is the EXACT opposite of that fear, he stands to make this country something better than it is now. That's all I can hope for, quite frankly. Something better.

I hope you are eating the cost of owning that SUV and I bet it tastes fantastic. Good luck with that. Oh yea, drill drill drill, that will get us out of EVERYTHING. We wont even see the benefit for 10 years if that. Oil companies own leases on land right now they could drill on today but they choose not to, it's not in their interest. Record profits + drilling more to get the price down for us = NO FINANCIAL SENSE! If you really think the crazy old man is going to get the price of oil down, you are not only a fool, but a fool without a grasp of history or reality.

A real change would be re-establishing rail transit in this country. We can do it 10X better than Japan and they have a MagLev train that hits 150mph without breaking a sweat. We already have the infrastructure to do it, all it would take is a company that can produce the products necessary on a mass scale. At "Manhattan Project" pace, we could have a country wide MagLev rail system done and operational in 8 years.

A real change would be utilizing desert countries and states to produce solar energy. Death Valley could be the next Terrawatt energy source. Arizona could hold several megawatt power generation centers and the same goes for Southern Nevada and West Texas.

Biodeisel made from trash grass, sugar cane and wood pulp could fuel several million cars in this country or go to generate mass power. Ultimately, the electric car will come to dominate the scene. It will be powered by the alternative mass power generation methods. In combination with new technology that requires less power to do the same function, that will boost conservation. In conjunction with a new generation of rail transit, we will no longer require air travel as a means for transit over long distances.

Cutting demand for fossil fuels will require a fast change in thinking. Time to re-energize infrastructure. I dont think the question should be "how do we pay for all of this?" It should be, "how will we pay if none of this is done?"

[boulderkid303]

[quote name='jezter6' date='Jun 20 2008, 07:42 PM' post='265582']
In the lesser of two evils (because I'm not for McCain, but I despise Osama bin Obama) - I'll take the fiscal conservative over the tax-n-spend liberal.


please shut up. Were you just not thinking.....or do you not have a brain?

[Big Boss]

please shut up. Were you just not thinking.....or do you not have a brain?

Everyone is free to express their own opinions. You don't have the right to insult them just because you don't agree with them.

[boulderkid303]

Yes express there own opinion on the subject which hopefully makes sense. Im sick of hearing that BS about obama. Its a cheap way to try and get at him. All Im saying is learn to respect him and then you might get some respect urself.

please shut up. Were you just not thinking.....or do you not have a brain?

Everyone is free to express their own opinions. You don't have the right to insult them just because you don't agree with them.