"natural Born Citizens"

[SafeSearchOff]

so i was having an arguement with my friend the other day... im one of those people who argues every chance i get. im belligerent, im stubborn, and im an antagonist. i like to argue and i pretty much argue for fun. so here's an issue that has come up in my life hundreds of times. i've defended both sides, even though one IS me.

so, lets get back down to business

Do you have to be born in the United States to become President? Can you be born on a US territory or US grounds such as embassies or military bases? What if your born to an American parent abroad and you declare citizenship for the child with the consulate beforehand?

Most people say that you must be born on exclusively United States soil, some say you can be born on embassies or bases, some say all of the above.
in the constitution it specifies that "natural born citizens" are eligible to become the president. so how do YOU interpret "natural born"?

discuss.

[Johnny_D]

Born on the countries soil. Which means embassies and bases are considered national soil.

Can't see what the debate is. It's fairly black and white to my mind.

JD

[gaia.plateau]

JD is right, it's pretty simple

"Natural Born Citizen" means that you are a citizen from birth, so if one or both of your parents are American, and you're born on US territory including bases and embassies, you're a natural born citizen.

Fox News has just spun John McCain's being born on a Panamanian military base into a headline news story to get a ratings kick. Edited March 8, 2008 by gaia.plateau

[mitchell8621]

Leave it to the bloody english to know our own rules better than we do

-love ya JD haha

[ahwahoo2006]

Embassies, military bases, and US-flagged ships are considered US "soil"

[cassinho]

In strict law terms, embassies and military bases are not country soil, that's a misconception (or a theory, if you want to call it that way)

Even tho, to add something else to the argue, i think that the "natural born citizen" rule to become president in every country in the world is illegal (unconstitutional), if you adquire a citizenship, you become just like any other citizen of that country, so you should adquire the right to become president to.

It's discriminatory

[KillZedKill]

I feel that anyone who is born on the planet earth should be allowed to live whever they would like to, borders should be broken down. What happend to equal opportunity? Maybe some day, some girl born in east india could be the best president the U.S. has ever seen, but we wouldnt know that, would we?

[r1v3th3ad]

so...illegal imigrant's children can become president...fuck that Edited March 10, 2008 by r1v3th3ad

[Oggie505]

In strict law terms, embassies and military bases are not country soil, that's a misconception (or a theory, if you want to call it that way)

This is not true, embassy's are considered US soil, but no embassy's have hospitals, atleast to my knowledge. Also some US bases are considered US soil, here in the UK all bases are leased from the UK gov, but if born on one, a child is automatically a US citizen, if born in a local hospital they are a US citizen, but one can also claim rights to be a citizen in that country. Not sure how the whole president thing goes, but if one is born overseas because their parents are stationed there or with dept. of state at an embassay I am sure they could be a president. It a whole different ball of wax if one is living overseas under a visa just to work or resident.

[yeshua_cxc]

In strict law terms, embassies and military bases are not country soil, that's a misconception (or a theory, if you want to call it that way)

Even tho, to add something else to the argue, i think that the "natural born citizen" rule to become president in every country in the world is illegal (unconstitutional), if you adquire a citizenship, you become just like any other citizen of that country, so you should adquire the right to become president to.

It's discriminatory

How can something be unconstitutional when it's in the constitution?

[oolatec]

Don't worry. McCain is a citizen and can run for President.

[HarryTheHookaMaster]

JD is right...

[TheScotsman]

In strict law terms, embassies and military bases are not country soil, that's a misconception (or a theory, if you want to call it that way)

This is not true, embassy's are considered US soil, but no embassy's have hospitals, atleast to my knowledge. Also some US bases are considered US soil, here in the UK all bases are leased from the UK gov, but if born on one, a child is automatically a US citizen, if born in a local hospital they are a US citizen, but one can also claim rights to be a citizen in that country. Not sure how the whole president thing goes, but if one is born overseas because their parents are stationed there or with dept. of state at an embassay I am sure they could be a president. It a whole different ball of wax if one is living overseas under a visa just to work or resident.

Exactly true... but only partially. There is also a claim to UK citizenship for many under those circumstances. Legally called "Jus sanguinis", or sometimes derivative citizenship, the child claims citizenship from one or both parents. I have citizenship in the UK, and the USA. In the USA under Jus Sanguinis, and the UK under Jus soli (law of the soil). Under international law (at least between the USA and UK) the nation in which you reside claims your allegiance, regardless of where you actually feel your allegiance belongs.) So, I guess the USA claims me... but I have a nice red passport issued by the Home Office. It does screw with customs though. Hell, good for them since they nearly always "randomly" pick me for the BS search. (anyone else get the "random" selection every time they travel? Loads of fun, isn't it?)

[Oggie505]

Well your red passport does not mean squat in the US, since the US does not recognize dual citizenship

[cassinho]

In strict law terms, embassies and military bases are not country soil, that's a misconception (or a theory, if you want to call it that way)

This is not true, embassy's are considered US soil, but no embassy's have hospitals, atleast to my knowledge. Also some US bases are considered US soil, here in the UK all bases are leased from the UK gov, but if born on one, a child is automatically a US citizen, if born in a local hospital they are a US citizen, but one can also claim rights to be a citizen in that country. Not sure how the whole president thing goes, but if one is born overseas because their parents are stationed there or with dept. of state at an embassay I am sure they could be a president. It a whole different ball of wax if one is living overseas under a visa just to work or resident.

Exactly true... but only partially. There is also a claim to UK citizenship for many under those circumstances. Legally called "Jus sanguinis", or sometimes derivative citizenship, the child claims citizenship from one or both parents. I have citizenship in the UK, and the USA. In the USA under Jus Sanguinis, and the UK under Jus soli (law of the soil). Under international law (at least between the USA and UK) the nation in which you reside claims your allegiance, regardless of where you actually feel your allegiance belongs.) So, I guess the USA claims me... but I have a nice red passport issued by the Home Office. It does screw with customs though. Hell, good for them since they nearly always "randomly" pick me for the BS search. (anyone else get the "random" selection every time they travel? Loads of fun, isn't it?)

You can become a ''natural born citizen'' by two ways, being son of american (ius sanguini) or getting born in american soil (ius soli), the true is that embassies or military bases are not american soil, it's just a zone where the local country has no jurisdiction (you can say they lend it to you and swear to god they wont interfere with you while you're there, but they dont give it to you as a gift).

In strict law terms, embassies and military bases are not country soil, that's a misconception (or a theory, if you want to call it that way)

Even tho, to add something else to the argue, i think that the "natural born citizen" rule to become president in every country in the world is illegal (unconstitutional), if you adquire a citizenship, you become just like any other citizen of that country, so you should adquire the right to become president to.

It's discriminatory

How can something be unconstitutional when it's in the constitution?

Constitutions has 2 different parts, the one that tells you about the organization of the state (organica in spanish, dont know the transaltion) and the catalog of rights, and there can be contradictory statements, this is hard for me to explain in english, but the point is that even a constitucional norm shouldn't be discriminatory and violate the equal to the law principle, if you beocme american, you should get absolutly all the rights a ''natural born citizen'' has, since... you both are americans.

Imho, there shouldn't be different grades of citizenship

[james]

Natural born = no epidural during labor.

Glad I could straighten things out here.

[IceCreamCakes]

In strict law terms, embassies and military bases are not country soil, that's a misconception (or a theory, if you want to call it that way)

Even tho, to add something else to the argue, i think that the "natural born citizen" rule to become president in every country in the world is illegal (unconstitutional), if you adquire a citizenship, you become just like any other citizen of that country, so you should adquire the right to become president to.

It's discriminatory

Uhhhhh that wouldnt work well cuz i could be a terriorist that got citizenship a few days ago then become president????

[TheScotsman]

In strict law terms, embassies and military bases are not country soil, that's a misconception (or a theory, if you want to call it that way)

Even tho, to add something else to the argue, i think that the "natural born citizen" rule to become president in every country in the world is illegal (unconstitutional), if you adquire a citizenship, you become just like any other citizen of that country, so you should adquire the right to become president to.

It's discriminatory

But to swear the Oath for citizenship the foreign national must swear to bear true faith and allegiance to, and protect the constitution, and it states unequivocally that only a natural citizen can run for those offices. To try to run would void the oath of citizenship, making them non-citizens, and obviously non-citizens can't run.

Who wants a non-native president? that would be silly on so many levels, Can you imagine Gaia for president? The White House Rose Garden would get iced over for a hockey arena!

[yeshua_cxc]

Trust me you do not want a non-native running the country. It's bad enough having one run our state (CA)!

[SafeSearchOff]

okay, this discussion is going pretty well. now let me add in my situation.

I was born in Japan, to one American parent, and one Phillipino parent who was in the process of gaining citizenship. According to Japanese law you can NEVER become a japanese citizen without ever having Japanese blood. Therefore when I was born, I never had the option nor ever will of becoming a Japanese citizen, because of my lack of Japanese blood. You can't even become a japanese citizen through marriage.

now, my parents went and pre-registered me an American citizen. Along with my birth certificate, I have a certificate from the US Consulate declaring that from my moment of birth I was an American citizen.


so. am I natural born or not?

[TheScotsman]

Yes, as long as one parent had lived in CONUS, Alaska, or Hawaii for at least 5 years before you were born. You too are a fellow 1401B, welcome to the club. You may also be considered a citizen of the Philippines, I am not at all familiar with how dual citizenship is handled with them.

8 USC 1401 for the Federal Code, but a summary:
Anyone born inside the United States
Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

[SafeSearchOff]

i know i'm an American citizen =P


what I want to know is if thats considered "naturally born"?


many of my friends say no, many of my teachers say yes, some of my teachers say no.
I really dont care, its just a nice debate, and a nice thought...


it also relates to mccaine as mentioned before...

[Voski]

Too bad Germany doesnt have natural born citizens =(

[TheScotsman]

i know i'm an American citizen =P


what I want to know is if thats considered "naturally born"?


many of my friends say no, many of my teachers say yes, some of my teachers say no.
I really dont care, its just a nice debate, and a nice thought...


it also relates to mccaine as mentioned before...

Oops, I forgot to get the rest of the header in there. Yes, those are the criteria for a naturally born citizen. Yes, Mccain is 100% naturally born.

[SafeSearchOff]

what site is that an exceprt from?