Tar Content

[ZenSilk]

Very nice, very nice indeed.

I will conduct this experiment again with more suitable evidence (mutiple bowls in a group, longer duration of smoke, etc.)

-QM

Not disagreeing with the outcome, but I do have a few questions about what you did exactly. First off, you said earlier on the thread that you can actually see yellow smoke? I dunno about most people on here, but the only smoke that I ever see is white... Also did you smoke actual shisha or did you just use glycerine (I think you mentioned something about it earlier)? Finally, what kind of coals did you use? I think I will set up my hookah this weekend with a cotton ball at the grommet where you hook the hose up as well as one in my hookah filter at the end of the hose (to see mostly if putting a cotton ball on the base catches most of the tar, which may actually be a good idea). I'll try Rolland quicklightes and some Diamente natural fingers as well to see the difference between natural and quicklight charcoal.

The differences between coals you won't see, just feel.

[staygone]

I never said the smoke was yellow, but that there is a coloration clearly shown on the tissue.

I used AF watermelon and a golden quicklight. CO and CO2 are COLOROUS!?! COLORLESS gas. There would not be color due to CO/CO2 gas.

Glycerin bowl is for later, I wanted to show a normal smoking situation first.

-QM Edited February 4, 2008 by QuiltedMaple

[zeppyrkr]

there are weird chemicals in quicklights that could show up in his test results ... ? i could be wrong.

[ZenSilk]

there are weird chemicals in quicklights that could show up in his test results ... ? i could be wrong.

Golden and 3K QL burn cleaner than my Exoticas.

[staygone]

unless you smoke potassium nitrate, IE quicklight coal gunpowder, then there could be a darker color. I never see colored smoke resinate off of my coals when I light them.

-QM

[Dom]

wow. there IS tar in the tobacco. i can't believe that the tobacco companies are lying to us saying that there is 0 tar.....
....... wait a minute..... yes, i CAN!

They tricked us, precious! Trixy Hobbitses!!!!

lol

[staygone]

Bastard tobacco companies and there compaigns to lure kids into smoking. Killin' our youth and shiz with designer packs,

-QM

[mathuv]

wow. there IS tar in the tobacco. i can't believe that the tobacco companies are lying to us saying that there is 0 tar.....
....... wait a minute..... yes, i CAN!

They tricked us, precious! Trixy Hobbitses!!!!

lol

technically they didnt trick us, they can claim that theres no tar in the shisha before its burnt..

[zeppyrkr]

there are weird chemicals in quicklights that could show up in his test results ... ? i could be wrong.

Golden and 3K QL burn cleaner than my Exoticas.

ha, what exoticas are you using?

[ZenSilk]

there are weird chemicals in quicklights that could show up in his test results ... ? i could be wrong.

Golden and 3K QL burn cleaner than my Exoticas.

ha, what exoticas are you using?

Read my thread. . Terrible ones.

And the tobacco comapnies can just say )% tar, cause they are talking about before you actuallt produce the tar. The amount of tar you actually inhale is subject to a myriad of variables, some beyond our control.

What the Hookah Bitchers need to do (the people who bash on hookahs) is measure the amount of Carbon Monoxide released from the coals, then how much is in the smoke, then compare it to a normal day in Mexico City.

[staygone]

"What the Hookah Bitchers need to do (the people who bash on hookahs) is measure the amount of Carbon Monoxide released from the coals, then how much is in the smoke, then compare it to a normal day in Mexico City. " (ZenSilk)

Gives me an idea,
Rig a carbon monoxide detector with a device to slip into the stem that'll read off the amount while you smoke.

-QM

Another variable, plug the downstem with a very breathable filter before entering the water (zeppy). Edited February 4, 2008 by QuiltedMaple

[amnite]

Its stupid to believe theres no tar in shisha tobacco, because nearly all plants that burn produce tar... But I have seen your experiment and it is pretty good. The fact is that theres research over the last 30-40 years and it hasent changed even today, one of the most famous scientists of tobacco (cigarettes) claimed that by lowering a cigarette's burning temperature from 700 degrees to 500 degrees produces a significant decrease on the cancer-causing agents...

Now compare burning a cigarette (700 degrees) and a shisha (around a 100 degrees).. Ofcourse tar produced but how harmful is it to you? What is in the tar that can cause cancer because its clear that shisha smoke or the ones that say its vapour is different to cigarette smoke.

Plus using a cigarette smoking-machine to measure tar of shisha tobacco is incorrect/inaccurate. How will you know that the flavour of the shisha is gone? This type of method has been used by some recent experiements in the past (e.g the ones that claim 1 hookah = 200 cigarettes). There has been experiements were the coal was kept in the same place the whole time. Edited February 5, 2008 by amnite

[staygone]

"Tar is purportedly the most destructive component in habitual tobacco smoking, accumulating in the smoker's lungs over time and damaging them through various biochemical and mechanical processes.

Tar includes the majority of mutagenic and carcinogenic agents in tobacco smoke (IARC, 1986). Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH), for example, are genotoxic via epoxidation." (wiki)

From my experiment, there was still tar in the water filtered smoke. Also, from what I heard on the forum, the coal burns at around 450F.

The best machine would be a human, we just have to wait till we are all old to see the true adverse effects (cancer, emphasima, etc.).

-QM

[amnite]

hmmm makes me wounder how bad is Herbal Shisha (No Tar, Nic, Tobacco), many people dislike it but I dont mind it... it has flavour and plenty of smoke but no buzz (no nic = no buzz) if only you could reduce how quick it burns out.... Maybe you should try using the filtering processes for the herbal shisha aswell as the tobacco shisha. See if any changes occur or anything gets filtered.

Still 450F is lower than what that scientist claimed. Edited February 5, 2008 by amnite

[staygone]

Gladly, if somebody is willing to send samples of the herbal stuff. After the adverse reviews, I don't feel like spending money on it.

With that herbal stuff too, I haven't seen any evidence that it doesn't carry carcinogens like tobacco. Maybe it's worst for you.

-QM

[Plain Old Me]

"Tar is purportedly the most destructive component in habitual tobacco smoking, accumulating in the smoker's lungs over time and damaging them through various biochemical and mechanical processes.

Tar includes the majority of mutagenic and carcinogenic agents in tobacco smoke (IARC, 1986). Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH), for example, are genotoxic via epoxidation." (wiki)

From my experiment, there was still tar in the water filtered smoke. Also, from what I heard on the forum, the coal burns at around 450F.

The best machine would be a human, we just have to wait till we are all old to see the true adverse effects (cancer, emphasima, etc.).

-QM

I think the temp mentioned above was in degrees C, but to be honest it should be difficult to measure a hookah coal's temp because it burns hotter as you inhale. However, I do not think that there is any question that cigarettes burn hotter than the heat a bowl gets when you inhale through a hookah.

[Dom]

from what I heard on the forum, the coal burns at around 450F.

the coal may be 450 degrees, but when you pull the heat down to the shisha, it only gets about 100 degrees F on the actual tobacco.

i have an infrared temperature gun and i think what i may do is use a screen to smoke a bowl of shisha and then, really quickly, when i am pulling hard on the hose, i'll take the screen off and quickly point the gun at the tobacco and get a reading. if i'm fast enough, i'm sure that i'll be able to catch it at a pretty acurate temperature. then, to make sure that the delay didn't cool it down too quickly, i'll also measure the temperature a couple secconds after i take the screen off to show how quickly it cools down. iono. maybe it could at least prove that the shisha does not get that hot.

(edited to remove the extra puntuation that tends to sneak into my sentances. ) Edited February 5, 2008 by Dom

[staygone]

Wierd, I wonder how the glycerin and nicotine vaporize considering their boiling points are 290C (554F) and 247C (477F).

-QM

Further reading indicates that nicotine vapor will combust at 95F, but glycerin will vaporize at 347F. Edited February 5, 2008 by QuiltedMaple

[Plain Old Me]

Wierd, I wonder how the glycerin and nicotine vaporize considering their boiling points are 290C (554F) and 247C (477F).

-QM

You don't need to have the whole mass at the boiling point to get vapor, just like you don't need to boil water for it to evaporate and condense at the top of a water bottle. However, I think that the temperature of the shisha gets a good bit above 100 degrees F. I am working on a electrical heating top to use as an alternative to coal possibly and the fillaments will glow around 600-700 degrees C (though it will be a convection heater so it will not be in direct contact with the shisha) but some temp readings would be great, though the fillaments are adjustable in temp.

[staygone]

Alternative heating ftw.

Yeah, I corrected my bogusness.

-QM

[ZenSilk]

Carbon Monoxide reader is a good idea man. I was looking for C. Monoxide filters today... Yeah, there isn't any.

[Bulldog_916]

Thing is, there has to be a chemical analysis of the particulate in the smoke. I'm sure there are bad things in there such as the aforementioned tar. Would it not help to space out your smoke sessions by a week or 2? This would give your lungs time to cleanse. The body is an amazing machine where people who have chain smoked for years stopped and became healthier over the time that they let their lungs repair themselves. I would think that giving time between smokes, maybe somewhere between a week and a month, could help your system pass the tar and other chemicals related to smoke. I suppose that until the WHO make it their top issue, which it seems they have, we'll see what the deal is.

[Sonthert]

Some thoughts.

1. Smoking Hookah is bad for you.

2. The term "tar" as applied to cigarettes and how it is applied to hookahs should be completely different. They are not that similar. That crap that sticks to your clothes and the walls...is tar. Hookah doesn't smell up the clothes or the walls...the glycerine, the flavor and other stuff could be thought of as tar, too...certainly less harmful "tar" than in cigarettes, presumably.

3. I read a study that showed a positive correlation between ignition temperature and amount of carcinogens produced. That is, the hotter the temperature the cigarette burned at, the more carcinogens were produced. Hookah tobacco operates at significantly lower temperatures than a cigarette which would lead us to believe less carcinogens are produced.

4. Cigar and Pipe smokers have lower mortality rates, in general than cigarette smokers, although they do indeed burn tobacco and presumably inhale the same type and variety of "tar"...The Surgeon General and other researchers have even taken to generalizing the results for cigarette studies to all types of smokers, although earlier data suggests, despite similarity in chemical composition, cigarettes are much more dangerous. These types of disparities have led some people to question whether its these chemicals or another factor (like the filter or the ammonia in cigarettes and a few types of cigars). That is, put another way, the earliest research indicate that pipes and cigars aren't as dangerous as cigarettes...but second hand smoking laws apply to all types of tobacco...equally.

[ASUSEAN1]

4. Cigar and Pipe smokers have lower mortality rates, in general than cigarette smokers, although they do indeed burn tobacco and presumably inhale the same type and variety of "tar"...The Surgeon General and other researchers have even taken to generalizing the results for cigarette studies to all types of smokers, although earlier data suggests, despite similarity in chemical composition, cigarettes are much more dangerous. These types of disparities have led some people to question whether its these chemicals or another factor (like the filter or the ammonia in cigarettes and a few types of cigars). That is, put another way, the earliest research indicate that pipes and cigars aren't as dangerous as cigarettes...but second hand smoking laws apply to all types of tobacco...equally.

i swear it is the zinc in the paper tht is the cause of cancer! i will give my evidence later, I have to go to class right now but its some solid stuff my grandpa paid to get researched.

btw this turned into a very good thread.. stayed on a good topic started from some objective arguing between myself and that crazy ninja

[mathuv]

4. Cigar and Pipe smokers have lower mortality rates, in general than cigarette smokers, although they do indeed burn tobacco and presumably inhale the same type and variety of "tar"...The Surgeon General and other researchers have even taken to generalizing the results for cigarette studies to all types of smokers, although earlier data suggests, despite similarity in chemical composition, cigarettes are much more dangerous. These types of disparities have led some people to question whether its these chemicals or another factor (like the filter or the ammonia in cigarettes and a few types of cigars). That is, put another way, the earliest research indicate that pipes and cigars aren't as dangerous as cigarettes...but second hand smoking laws apply to all types of tobacco...equally.

i swear it is the zinc in the paper tht is the cause of cancer! i will give my evidence later, I have to go to class right now but its some solid stuff my grandpa paid to get researched.

btw this turned into a very good thread.. stayed on a good topic started from some objective arguing between myself and that crazy ninja

zinc..and phosporous..and sulfur..those are some of the chemicals used in cigarette paper so that it would burn without the cigarette being puffed on, thats why hand rolled cigarettes go out on their own.