King Mo Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 After an illegal a war (Operation Iraqi Liberation - OIL) on iraq (in which over a million civilians have died since gulf war 1), is it any surprise that someone related to the army would commit criminal acts? Stealin oil, stealin money, stealin civilian's rights and lives. Same thing really. Ironic humour aside, usually when you don't receive something, you can make a claim from paypal who will freeze the guy's account/money if they investigate and he gives no proof. (something along those lines) Perhaps if everyone makes a claim to paypal, then maybe he'll be forced to pay up, as paypal usually are great from a buyer's perspective, and crap from a seller's perspective. If he has taken the money though, he may not care that his paypal account is frozen/negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofdavid Posted October 24, 2006 Share Posted October 24, 2006 Yup, I haven't heard from him either. I have emailed him several times without any response. I am in the process of working with paypal to get my money back. I encourage you to do the same since he is a no call, no show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[LB] Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 read the whole thread guys, and dont dishonor soldiers thats not fair. Get mad at bush, cheney and condie rice, not the soldiers. They are riskings their lives out their because they believe that their country would not send them into battle for nothing. cmon man have some respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mo Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 I think you should look at a certain boxer known as the greatest who threw away his olympic medal because he didn't want to go murder totally innocent people anyways this is not for this forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey32b Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 [quote name='King Mo']After an illegal a war (Operation Iraqi Liberation - OIL) on iraq (in which over a million civilians have died since gulf war 1), is it any surprise that someone related to the army would commit criminal acts? Stealin oil, stealin money, stealin civilian's rights and lives. Same thing really.[/quote] Unnecessary low blow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 [quote name='King Mo']I think you should look at a certain boxer known as the greatest who threw away his olympic medal because he didn't want to go murder totally innocent people anyways this is not for this forum [/quote] If this is not for this forum, why put it here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mo Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 If you want to go off-topic, you can PM me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonthert Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Oh, you guys...don't take King Mo's sardonic humor so seriously. His point is valid though, no? If someone's willing to kill another person, why wouldn't they be willing to steal? Not to say the guy made off with the money or whatnot...just a hypothetical question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[LB] Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 king mos been back for liek 2 weeks and im already sick of his self righteous and blatantly disrespectful jargon *edited* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakemonster Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 I would be willing to kill, but not steal..... Service Men and Women dont pick the wars they fight. Military leaders and Governments do. The same sense of duty and honor to the flag must be held even if it is unpopular....otherwise we would lack the will to fight as a nation like we did in WWII (more civilians killed in that war BTW. no one is complainin.) I respect your take on the Iraq war. I have reservations about it myself . but I dont take it out on people that are upholding the oath they have taken to asnwer the call of duty. Because they kill does not mean they want to..... or have it in their blood.... these guys are gonna come home one day.... and they will have nightmares of the things they had to do. Every real Vet I have known, family included, did not care to be asked about the killing or guesome things. They never wanted to do those things... or see the things they saw. They go and do this because it is their duty. It is our duty as citizens to see that the Government does not abuse the service. You can bitch or you can vote. November is comin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey32b Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 [quote name='Sonthert']Oh, you guys...don't take King Mo's sardonic humor so seriously. His point is valid though, no? If someone's willing to kill another person, why wouldn't they be willing to steal? Not to say the guy made off with the money or whatnot...just a hypothetical question.[/quote] King Mo's statement implied that soldiers are immoral people. He can mask it as a humorous statement, but you don't say something like that unless you want to start an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosepotatoes Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Yeah man that bullshit. You're fucking ungrateful. I dont care if you are for the war or not in this case. Shut the hell up. The soldiers deserve every goddamn bit of respect we can give them. That was uncalled for and pretentious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 If they don;t want to kill why join the millitary? The millitarys job is to kill, and people who kill are responsible for their actions. We have had soldiers who regained a sense of morality and have refused to go back to kill more, I really admire those who are able to see that their past actions are wrong and refuse to contenue to do immoral things, like kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonthert Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 See? King Mo is good for conversations...just don't let him get ya-all to upset. We're just talking... First off, King Mo is British, I don't think he has to be thankful for our troops in Iraq or anywhere else. I think soldiers do deserve consideration, not respect...the only problem is they are put into difficult situations and ask to make life-or-death decisions and that screws up people's brains. It took 15 years after Vietnam for people to look at the military as a respectable profession again...the continued involvement in Iraq is driving people back towards hating the military...spitting on them and other such crap. How many PC bandwagon types are going to be out there spitting in 5 years? "Baby Murderers" ans some-such signs waving in the breeze. Michael Moore put it very nicely, at the end of Fahrenheit 9-11...they serve our country and they only ask that they be put in harm's way when there is something at stake. The US military has been errand boy of death, carrying out acts of terror and aggression to people all over the world in reference to political influences who have a vested interest in making the war happen. Iraq is a war for the minority of Americans. It does not benefit the majority of Americans, it harms the majority of Americans and it risks the lifes of good men and women in the US. I think the most effective strategy is work together, establish a multinationalistic, egalitarian peace. The second most effective strategy is "kill them all and let god sort them out." One of the things I hate Bush for is his moves to cut the pay for active duty military personnel, cut the benefits for wounded soldiers, their families, cut benefits for families of soldiers on active duty. I do vote and I do bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosepotatoes Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 o he's british? pardon me I didn't know then I guess he doesnt need to respect our soldiers.... BUT GUESS WHAT? IGOT A JOKE!!! How do you disperse a crowd of Brits? Throw a toothbrush at them! HA HA. BAbabababa I'm lovin' it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[LB] Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 [quote name='Sonthert']Michael Moore put it very nicely, at the end of Fahrenheit 9-11...they serve our country and they only ask that they be put in harm's way when there is something at stake. [/quote] you nailed it. support the troops, not the administration that put them in harms way. vote dem this november. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mo Posted October 26, 2006 Author Share Posted October 26, 2006 To a certain extent, the hispanics, blacks, and other racial minorities are encouraged to live in poverty so that they can fill up army places. Ironically, these people are the first to die for a country that treats them like shit. Now for my comment. If LB is sick of my attitude, then don't respond to me, I have reasons for my posts and if you wish to know them, I can explain them comfortably. Now, most people who back the army, back them because they feel it is their patriotic duty to do so. The fact of the matter is, that America is so far away from the rest of the world, that they are not at a direct military threat from any of the Middle East. Russia was an issue at one stage, but I'm speaking generally. Most people do not realise that they are brainwashed into reducing the value of life. ONE million Iraqis died due to American backed sanctions. The government did not get affected One million Iranians died, due to America supplying weapons to Saddam. More and more Iraqis are dying due to the way the country has been destroyed under the false pretense that a) Saddam has some weapons which have never been found Iraq is linked to 20 random psychos who were on those planes on 9/11 and part of a terrorist group that has probably killed more muslims and arabs than foreigners Now, if some of you get off your false patriotic and unhumanitarian high-horse and realise that if your family were wiped out, how sad would you be?? If your friends family was wiped out, how sad would you be?? Just picture your mother or father being murdered tomorrow. Now, picture that grief, and imagine millions of people feeling like that, due to the millions killed Picture it???? I may be trying to play on emotions, but human life cannot be devalued. Totally innocent lives. Now, the soldiers deserve no respect, as , despite it being understandable they may need money or direction, they are not forced to murder. They are essentially hitmen for a mafia boss. They know they will kill, they know they will kill, they know they will kill. They can take the Muhammad Ali stance, or they can go and kill. Now, remember the grief of those millions? remember the grief of yourself if your parents were murdered tomorrow?? do you honestly give a flying shit about the hitmen?? Simplicity sometimes may detract from the intellectual quality of a point, but equally, it may be the only way to appeal to the hearts of some who have been hardened by the media into thinking life is a statistic. People going out to murder should be put in jail and tried as murderers. Not elevated to war heroes. Blame the government (mafia), but don't remove blame or feel sympathy for the 'hitmen' who rip apart and destroy millions of lives by firing guns, firing missiles, and torturing and raping (according to government reports, let alone the actual reality) Food for thought from the king. Those who are sick of me need not respond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey32b Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 I get your point and it is a fair opinion. However, you are making the assumption that wars can't be fought for just reasons. Yes, signing up for the military would mean that you know you will have to kill. But, if you're killing for a just cause, than I believe it is ok to kill. I think that you would have to admit that it is at least arguable that wars can be fought for a just reason. If this is true, than you can't generalize that soldiers are murderers. Are the soldiers who killed nazi officials in WWII murderers? I think instead of blaming American soldiers, who are forced to do everything they can to not kill civilians, you should blame the insurgents in Iraq, who hide with civilians in order to make it difficult to be caught. They are a bunch of cowards and they are the ones putting the civilians at risk. Oh, and a side note...Blacks aren't encouraged by the government to live in poverty, as you say. The reason so many blacks are in poverty is because over 70% of black babies are born to a single mother out of wedlock. That is some sad stuff if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 Tell me when it is just for me to drop a bomb on your mom and dad and siblings or your partener. Tell me what cause will make you cheer as they slowly and painfully die. Ghandi was able to help overthrow the most powerful empire in the world, he didn't need to kill. As a society we are trained to think that every problem must have a millitary solution. When all you have is a hammer every problem becomes a nail, and the United State's only tool for foreign policy is a huge millitary. The world should learn from the example of Jesus, the Buddha, or Ghandi and see that the world can be made a better place through active non-violent methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey32b Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 It is just for you to drop a bomb on my mom or dad when my mom or dad is a dictator who kills hundreds of thousands of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mo Posted October 26, 2006 Author Share Posted October 26, 2006 [quote name='Joey32b']I get your point and it is a fair opinion. However, you are making the assumption that wars can't be fought for just reasons. Yes, signing up for the military would mean that you know you will have to kill. But, if you're killing for a just cause, than I believe it is ok to kill. I think that you would have to admit that it is at least arguable that wars can be fought for a just reason. If this is true, than you can't generalize that soldiers are murderers. Are the soldiers who killed nazi officials in WWII murderers? I think instead of blaming American soldiers, who are forced to do everything they can to not kill civilians, you should blame the insurgents in Iraq, who hide with civilians in order to make it difficult to be caught. They are a bunch of cowards and they are the ones putting the civilians at risk. Oh, and a side note...Blacks aren't encouraged by the government to live in poverty, as you say. The reason so many blacks are in poverty is because over 70% of black babies are born to a single mother out of wedlock. That is some sad stuff if you ask me.[/quote] There are no insurgents. There are just terrorists who are having a blast (literally and metaphorically) because America has completely devestated a country they had already pissed all over. How the hell was 'Shock and Awe' targetting any 'insurgents'. The bottom line, Iraq was never a threat to the USA and was in fact armed by the USA to kill innocent Iranians. Where is the justification in pulling a trigger on an innocent civilian?? where is the justification in hitting a civilian area to 'shock and awe' them. There isn't any. Soldiers are hitmen. They are paid to kill and have done so successfully. just did a google, and here's what came up [url="http://www.iraqvictims.com"]http://www.iraqvictims.com[/url] I take no responsibility for this site, I just simply googled 'iraq victims', but in a brief overview, it seems to at least illustrate what it is like for people to be murdered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 In iraq did only the dictator die? The lancet, a highly respected medical journal, reported that over 100,000 people have died in Iraq due to the American invasion. Were all of these people dictators who killed hundreds of thousands of people? What if you mom or dad were just in the way when I wanted to remove someone else? Why couldn't peaceful methods have been used in Iraq, like was used effectivley in India to remove the british, or were advocated By Jesus or the Buddha (I know non-violence has been advocated by many, those are just the first two people to come to mind). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey32b Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 [quote name='King Mo']There are no insurgents. There are just terrorists who are having a blast (literally and metaphorically) because America has completely devestated a country they had already pissed all over. How the hell was 'Shock and Awe' targetting any 'insurgents'. The bottom line, Iraq was never a threat to the USA and was in fact armed by the USA to kill innocent Iranians. Where is the justification in pulling a trigger on an innocent civilian?? where is the justification in hitting a civilian area to 'shock and awe' them. There isn't any. Soldiers are hitmen. They are paid to kill and have done so successfully. just did a google, and here's what came up [url="http://www.iraqvictims.com"]http://www.iraqvictims.com[/url] I take no responsibility for this site, I just simply googled 'iraq victims', but in a brief overview, it seems to at least illustrate what it is like for people to be murdered.[/quote] I'll be honest Mo, I like what you've brought to the table the last couple weeks here, even though I disagree with you. Anyway, you didn't address my point. I wasn't saying that Iraq was a threat or that you could go up to a civilian and just kill them. I was saying that there are legitimate reasons that we fought this war. That being said, if there are legitimate reasons to fight a war and the government decides to go that route, then you can't blame soldiers for killing people. They do their best to only kill militants, but unfortunately, a side effect of war is that some civilians will get killed too. It sucks, but that doesn't mean we should be pacifists. America does its best to fight wars properly. If you want to disagree with the whole concept of fighting this war, that's fine, but not everyone believes that this war was unjustified . [quote name='Joseph']In iraq did only the dictator die? The lancet, a highly respected medical journal, reported that over 100,000 people have died in Iraq due to the American invasion. Were all of these people dictators who killed hundreds of thousands of people? What if you mom or dad were just in the way when I wanted to remove someone else? Why couldn't peaceful methods have been used in Iraq, like was used effectivley in India to remove the british, or were advocated By Jesus or the Buddha (I know non-violence has been advocated by many, those are just the first two people to come to mind).[/quote] If peace worked, that would be great. Believe me, I believe war is a horrible thing. I'm just defending the rights of a country to defend itself when it feels its necessary. The last time we tried peace, it failed miserably and could end up getting us into a war anyway. When Clinton was in office, he went the peace route with North Korea. They talked out all their problems and the US agreed to pay North Korea money in order for them to not develop nuclear weapons. Well, North Korea took that money and used our money to directly start up their program. Ten years later, they have their nukes and now we might have to fight them anyway. Peace doesn't work with madmen. On that note, I'm off to Eric's lounge to smoke some Tangiers. I'll see if he'll let me take a picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mo Posted October 26, 2006 Author Share Posted October 26, 2006 [quote name='Joey32b']Anyway, you didn't address my point. I wasn't saying that Iraq was a threat or that you could go up to a civilian and just kill them. I was saying that there are legitimate reasons that we fought this war. That being said, if there are legitimate reasons to fight a war and the government decides to go that route, then you can't blame soldiers for killing people. They do their best to only kill militants, but unfortunately, a side effect of war is that some civilians will get killed too. It sucks, but that doesn't mean we should be pacifists. America does its best to fight wars properly. If you want to disagree with the whole concept of fighting this war, that's fine, but not everyone believes that this war was unjustified .[/quote] The legitimate reason was weapons of mass destruction that STILL have not been found. The only result of the Iraq war has been some wonderful Oil contracts from one of the top 5 suppliers in the world. Has America ever actually fought a proper war for just reasons?? Casualties can happen as a result of war, but there is no legitimate reason for attacking and destroying iraq and its people (Twice). Perhaps it was only to erase the history of USA supporting Saddam in his war with Iran?? Oil is obviously the most likely reason though. Soldiers may be unfortunate, but at the end of the day, they are murdering innocent people. You may not like it, I don't like it, but certainly they are not heroes. If USA was under attack and they were defending their country, then fair enough. Perceptions can mean self-defence or attack can be confused by I am being specific here. Iraq was attacked by the USA and the USA were the aggressors. Lets not even get into the sanctions and the uranium from gulf war 1 that ruined generations of kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Posted October 26, 2006 Share Posted October 26, 2006 And Ghandi tried the "peace route" and helped throw the british out of India where violence failed. The US seems to "feel it neccessary ot defend itself" when they are not in danger from a specific country, such as all the US actions in south america, vietnam, and now Iraq. It seems to be more about money then defending anyone. Our VP was CEO of Haliburton and who is now making BILLIONS off of Iraq? Haliburton of course. Does that seem an odd coincidence to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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