Religion And Relationships

[Damethe]

So I am Catholic, I was raised Catholic and I believe very strongly in most of Catholic values. Well my boyfriend is an atheist. I love him, and he is too important to me to only see the fact that he dosent believe in God, but it sometimes makes things difficult.

Advice?
And what are your views on religion and relationships?

[Stuie]

It's kind of a tricky question actually.

Here is what I have seen:

If you have your beliefs and neither one is that devout to them or don't care what the other one believes, it's usually okay until one starts to feel more strongly about their beliefs.

If one or both believes strongly in your beliefs you are most likely doomed. It's just the nature of the beast on how religious views happens. Usually once kids enter the picture the powder keg explodes.

Had 2 friends one protestant, one pagan. Together for 9 years. Go to get married and they start planning the wedding.... didn't survive opening arguments.

These are just my observations.

[Vladimir]

It is what it is. Your faith is strong and your worldview comes from a completely different foundation than his does- even if your worldviews are similar! It can work out, but I think it would be very hard- and if it doesn't there is nothing to be ashamed about. It not-working is not a sign of you being intolerant or anything like that. It is what it is.

And I'm Orthodox so I know where you are coming from .

[Charley]

love is love. regardless of beliefs. If you chose to believe in god then believe in god but dont try to save someone that dosent even if you love them. that is what has ruined most of my relationships. I am an atheist and I dont care what the woman I am dating believes in or how strongly they believe it as long as they dont try to force it upon me. when this happens it ruins the relationship.

do what you do and let them do what they do its that simple.

when kids become involved then its time to set down and decuse the pros and cons of raising the kids to believe what you believe or dont believe.

remember tho he probably feels the same about his choice as you do about yours. I have seen other ppl in mixed faith or religious/atheist relationships also deal with the child issue this way expose the children to both sides and when they are old enough they will gravitate to what they feel is right.

it is tricky tho and both sides truly have to understand and make sacrifices. you know your right and he knows hes right sometimes when two ppl both know there right they have to give and just say we agree to disagree and move on.

dont preach or try to convert him but also ask him to respect your right to believe and warship in your own way.

in other words respect his decision and tell him to respect yours. and if you both do that your relationship will endure.

[Vladimir]

dont preach or try to convert him but also ask him to respect your right to believe and warship in your own way.

Here is the problem with that. This is one of those few times where the opposite does not have anything in common. For an Atheist to not "preach" to a Christian is easy- who cares? All the Christian is doing is "wasting some time," so that isn't worth a big battle over*.

The reverse situation however, is very different. For a Christian, not "preaching" to an Atheist is akin to settling for them to spend eternity in Hell... now put yourself in a Christian's shoes, is that something you would be willing to accept for the love of your life?

I agree, it CAN work, and I agree that Children need to be exposed to both sides and allowed to choose for themselves (and this can be easier in certain cases compared to others- a Jewish man and Catholic woman may have a harder time than an Atheist and a Catholic would).

* I know there is a little more to it than "wasting time" from an Atheists perspective- but ultimately you are not dealing with "eternal damnation." Edited June 1, 2009 by Vladimir

[Tati]

This is always hard...Im jewish, and most of the guys Ive dated arent. At first its fine, but once you get into the whole wedding, kids, family thing, then it gets more complicated.
If the love is strong enough to get through it, then youre golden, if not...shit happens...

[Sherwood]

I'm going to take a different tack than Charley here, much as I respect him and enjoy his contributions. Scripture addresses this issue clearly in 2 Corinthians 6:14 -- "Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?" [NIV]

The Christianese for this is called being "unequally yoked". It comes off really harsh, but it can avoid more pain down the line. Here are a few situations your relationship will have to address

- Where do you get married? Will he attend a ceremony at a church, knowing that some of the oaths he takes would be lies?
- Will you have children? Catholicism takes a strict view on birth control, so you should expect to have some.
- Will your children be christened? That's a promise to raise them in the Church.
- Are you prepared to convert? Is he? If the answer to both is "no", then it will be constant source of conflict.

I can't in good conscience say it will work out for the best. All the options involve you thrusting your faith on him, or you diminishing your faith for him. Neither of those is good for a healthy relationship.

[delSol_si]

This is always hard...Im jewish, and most of the guys Ive dated arent. At first its fine, but once you get into the whole wedding, kids, family thing, then it gets more complicated.
If the love is strong enough to get through it, then youre golden, if not...shit happens...

My sister is Christian and is dating a Jewish guy. I don't think it is that big of a deal. They both believe the same basics, just the details are different. Well, except the Jesus part. BUT, both believe there was a Jesus and a God, just the description of Jesus is different.

Anyway back to the OP's question. One thing I want to warn you about is death. When you both die, your boyfriend will probably not be going to heaven if he doesn't convert, meaning you may not be able to spend eternity with him...food for thought.

[Vladimir]

Anyway back to the OP's question. One thing I want to warn you about is death. When you both die, your boyfriend will probably not be going to heaven if he doesn't convert, meaning you may not be able to spend eternity with him...food for thought.

“At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven." Matthew 22:30

[Damethe]

love is love. regardless of beliefs. If you chose to believe in god then believe in god but dont try to save someone that dosent even if you love them. that is what has ruined most of my relationships. I am an atheist and I dont care what the woman I am dating believes in or how strongly they believe it as long as they dont try to force it upon me. when this happens it ruins the relationship.

do what you do and let them do what they do its that simple.

when kids become involved then its time to set down and decuse the pros and cons of raising the kids to believe what you believe or dont believe.

remember tho he probably feels the same about his choice as you do about yours. I have seen other ppl in mixed faith or religious/atheist relationships also deal with the child issue this way expose the children to both sides and when they are old enough they will gravitate to what they feel is right.

it is tricky tho and both sides truly have to understand and make sacrifices. you know your right and he knows hes right sometimes when two ppl both know there right they have to give and just say we agree to disagree and move on.

dont preach or try to convert him but also ask him to respect your right to believe and warship in your own way.

in other words respect his decision and tell him to respect yours. and if you both do that your relationship will endure.

That makes alot of sense. you sound alot like my boyfriend. lol. but yeah another thing that worries me is planning the wedding, our veiws clash, but i still wanna have a nice wedding. you know? I like the child idea, about exposing them to both, the only thing is would a child get confused that they were hearing two different points of view?

[Damethe]

Anyway back to the OP's question. One thing I want to warn you about is death. When you both die, your boyfriend will probably not be going to heaven if he doesn't convert, meaning you may not be able to spend eternity with him...food for thought.

Yeah, believe me, I have been thinking about it. And i really dont think that he is ever going to convert. Its just not who he is. :/

[Dr. B]

If the love is there, I feel confident that the minor differences can be worked out. There are very few important spiritual, as opposed to material, differences between religions and it might be difficult to decide in what church to hold the marriage for example, but even through the word of the sovereign it can be worked out. Similar to what delSol said, general faith in a higher power should be enough to unite two souls.

However, an atheist and a believer coming together does introduce some problems, mostly for the believer. The best advice I can offer for a situation like that is find what the atheist believes in (we all believe in something, the absurdist doesn't fall in love) and appeal to that. Don't be offended if they reject your dogma. If they are content with not feeling subservient to anything at all, then it is perhaps a deep-rooted personality difference and means you are truly incompatible: This is of course if you, the believer, really believe in the importance of religion, not just the goodness of man. If you can look past the incongruity, there shouldn't be a problem.

I personally, in the future, would prefer to marry a Jewish woman; but that doesn't mean I can't fall in love with an atheist or a woman of another faith. This may stem from some selfishness: There are a few religious milestones I find important enough in my faith that I'd rather not compromise on; but I've found women of my own faith easier to be compatible with. While I wouldn't make a fuss about what church we got married in, I wouldn't tolerate opposition to having my son circumcised, for example (barring extraneous factors). If no conflict arose, my belief in the goodness of man would most likely prevent me from getting hung up on my spouse's religion.

Though I feel a common culture unites people of the same faith, I am not so naive to believe that women with characteristics of one culture could have a different faith, nor that women from one faith could not share the respective common culture. Considering this, I feel love is powerful enough to command some prudence out of either partner.

[Damethe]

If the love is there, I feel confident that the minor differences can be worked out. There are very few important spiritual, as opposed to material, differences between religions and it might be difficult to decide in what church to hold the marriage for example, but even through the word of the sovereign it can be worked out. Similar to what delSol said, general faith in a higher power should be enough to unite two souls.

However, an atheist and a believer coming together does introduce some problems, mostly for the believer. The best advice I can offer for a situation like that is find what the atheist believes in (we all believe in something, the absurdist doesn't fall in love) and appeal to that. Don't be offended if they reject your dogma. If they are content with not feeling subservient to anything at all, then it is perhaps a deep-rooted personality difference and means you are truly incompatible: This is of course if you, the believer, really believe in the importance of religion, not just the goodness of man. If you can look past the incongruity, there shouldn't be a problem.

I personally, in the future, would prefer to marry a Jewish woman; but that doesn't mean I can't fall in love with an atheist or a woman of another faith. This may stem from some selfishness: There are a few religious milestones I find important enough in my faith that I'd rather not compromise on; but I've found women of my own faith easier to be compatible with. While I wouldn't make a fuss about what church we got married in, I wouldn't tolerate opposition to having my son circumcised, for example (barring extraneous factors). If no conflict arose, my belief in the goodness of man would most likely prevent me from getting hung up on my spouse's religion.

Though I feel a common culture unites people of the same faith, I am not so naive to believe that women with characteristics of one culture could have a different faith, nor that women from one faith could not share the respective common culture. Considering this, I feel love is powerful enough to command some prudence out of either partner.

Thank you for your advice.

[delSol_si]

Anyway back to the OP's question. One thing I want to warn you about is death. When you both die, your boyfriend will probably not be going to heaven if he doesn't convert, meaning you may not be able to spend eternity with him...food for thought.

“At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven." Matthew 22:30

I don't quite think you understood what my point was. To my understanding, people must believe in God to get into heaven. An atheist doesn't believe in God, hence no heaven. Not to mention I don't think they believe in heaven in the first place. I completely understand the scripture you quoted, but it doesn't really have anything to do with what I was saying.

Edit: On second though, maybe you do understand, I don't know. Were you in agreeance with my statement or opposition? If you were agreeing with my statement, then disregard this post, if you were opposing it, then read what I have written above. I am not trying to force my beliefs on you in any way, simply giving my opinion. Edited June 1, 2009 by delSol_si

[Charley]

children are smarter than us grown ups give them credit for. simply tell them this is what mommy believes and this is what daddy believes. they will figure out who in there mind is right. but treat them with respect when telling them this.

dont say well daddys an idiot because he believes this and dont let him do the same. make sure you state it in clear English without bashing the other persons belief. most of the time when kids get confused its because we as adults talk to them like there kids. (I know THEY ARE KIDS but our presumption of what kids can understand is far different than what is truth.)

and as for weddings give a little on both sides he loves you and he wants you to have the wedding of your dreams. (or as close to it as possible) he will be willing to have a church wedding. he may ask to write his own vows instead of using the religious ones. and thats where your part of the compromise would come in by allowing him to do so.

when I was with my ex we had our wedding planed out it was to be a church wedding but we had the preacher rewrite the parts that pertained to me so they were non religious. Unfortunately we never made it that far.

[tinyj316]

I suppose I don't hold my religious beliefs in as high as a regard as most people....I am a PK, my dad is part of a rotating pastorate at my church, and my mom is a very devout believer... Before my parents met, my dad was an agnostic. (Keep in mind, agnosticism is not a lack of belief, it is a lack of knowledge. Agnosticism and atheism are not interchangeable. ) I was raised in the church, saw the way that other "Christians" act, most of the stuff didn't jive with me. I believe that there is a god. I'm not sure if its the Christian god, the Jewish god, the Hindu god, the Buddhist god, etc.... I will never have the capacity to hold that knowledge. I do know, from my short time on this earth, that organized religion is not my bag... I guess you could call me an Agnostic Theist.... I have also studied many religions (one of the things I thank my parents for letting me experience in my youth). I've been to numerous churches, temples, mosques, etc. Its all the same ends, just a different means... People just want to believe in something (Christians believe in God, Atheists believe there is no God)...Hell even nihilists believe in something (nothing)...That's just a little background so you can keep my perspective in context.

I would first ask the question: Is this person truly an atheist, or do they just hold the belief that there can not be a god since there is know knowledge proving a god exists? This is where most "atheists" become agnostic... Many "atheists" believe that something...some higher power... not necessarily God...is out there... they just don't have the ability to believe it because it can't be proven (AKA having no faith, as Christians call it)... This type of person will be easier to work with, as certain things can be shown to them that might make them change their views... be careful with this though, as you don't want to become too preachy, or trying to convert the person... And DO NOT...under any circumstance...berate or belittle them because they don't believe in the same thing as you do... not only will things not end well, but it will make you look like a jackass...even things like "I can't believe you don't believe in God" are bad to say, unless you are explicitly discussing religion...

Now for the second part...

I've noticed over the years that the three religions that have the biggest beef with falling in love with someone outside of their sect-of-choice are Catholics, Jews, and Muslims. Three of the worlds oldest sects... Three of the worlds most hated sects (most of the hatred is between the differing sects)... Is this a coincidence? Probably... but then again... These three sects push have staunch beliefs when it comes to those who are non-believers... these beliefs are passed down over generations, making it so Catholics only want to marry Catholics, Jews to Jews, Muslims to Muslims.... Is this right? To each their own... Just because its been ingrained into your subconscious beliefs, doesn't mean that it has to become an issue...It only becomes a deal breaker when you make it one.

I have friends that have married outside of their particular religious affiliations, and things, thus far, have worked out nicely for them. One couple (He's a Muslim, she's a Catholic) have been married for 5 years now and are expecting their first child. They got married in a Catholic church... As you may or may not know, in order to get married in most Catholic churches, you have to become a Catholic.... Which he did... Its not hard to sit through 4 hours of Catechism for 4-6 weeks, pick a confirmation name, then forget all about it and go back to your own religion... While Muhammad and Jesus/God probably got pissed off about this, they did it... They love each other very much, and they plan on teaching their children to become more tolerant of other religions by teaching them both religions, as well as Judaism. The second couple (He's an Atheist, she's a Jew) have been married for 2 years now. They got married in a Temple...you know what that means! He converted to Judaism... He even got to read from the Torah.... Did he start believing in the God of Abraham? No. But they both love each other, and religion doesn't play a big roll in their lives...When they decide to have kids, the kids will be raised Jewish, but will not be forced to go Temple if they do not want to.... The third couple (He's a Catholic, she's an Atheist) have been married for over 20 years... She didn't convert to Catholicism, they got married on the beach of Lake Michigan, and they have 3 kids, of which 1 is Catholic, 1 is Atheist, and 1 picked up Paganism along the line... They're a happy family...The biggest thing with all three couples is the fact that they don't try to push their beliefs onto their partners, and they have both agreed to be open about religion with their children.

Truth is subjective...

If you want things to go well, they will go well... if you don't want them to go well (consciously or not), they're destined for failure...Being in a relationship is all about making concessions...

I hope this helps either the OP or it will spark new debate...

[Dr. B]

Endearing post Tiny. The whole concessions idea we're espousing becomes a little easier to digest with your anecdotes.

[Sapphire]

Well..

From what I have seen, things work pretty good until there are major life changes like oh...KIDS?

Most the time if its just two diff religions/faith that " DO " things a diff way, but have kinda the same Values...its not a prob.
But still there is trouble when Kids come in to play.

With something like this... where it is totaly opposite... I think it would be much more diffacult in the long run.

[Rani]

People who know me could give you a 1,000 different reasons why they would believe me to be pro-religion, and yet despite my personal beliefs, I'm not. The Catholic church is one of the oldest denominational Christian churches, and like so many it's emphasis is on conversion for a very simple reason: Economics. The clergy have a career in the church. Housing, food, clothing, etc. all provided by the church. Where does the church get it's money? It's offering plates which fill directly out of the pockets of the congregatiions. No converts, no congregation, no money. That's not to say money is the primary reason behind any church, but it is reality that all financial support is provided by it's members. Becasuse of this there is an emphasis on preaching and gaining new members. It's deeply integrated into nearly every dogma because of the reality that without it, they will cease to exist. Yet they miss one essential element......

No one can possibly be responsible for the state or fate of someone elses soul. No one can presume to know the mind of God and say with any reason of certainty that someone is or is not condemned because of their beliefs or even their actions. Because you cannot read the mind of God. We have religious doctrine passed down through generations however, we have no absolute proof that those are the actual words and intentions of God. To assume they are, assumes to know the mind of God. And I don't know about anyone else, but I don't come built with that kind of arrogance.

I take the middle road. I cannot prove God exists, I cannot prove he/she does not exist. Since I cannot even prove existence, I certainly can't prove God's intentions. I choose to believe it is my responsibility to behave in a way consistent with what I consider to be honorable and good regardless of formal religion, and to give others the respect to do the same according to their personal beliefs. I choose to believe God in whatever form is omnipotent and able to work out a personal relationship with each person on earth including agnostic and atheist. I choose to allow God to be God. I kinda figure that's why he/she get's the fancy title and heavenly office. If you can come to the same place, the religion of the people you love becomes a moot point.

'Rani

[newjacksm]

My brother is orthodox christian and he married a catholic woman. It wasn't to big of a deal till marriage, what they ended up doing was marrying in both churches. Now when they get kids it is a different story they will have to figure that one out. It's all about compromise.

[judgeposer]

So I am Catholic, I was raised Catholic and I believe very strongly in most of Catholic values. Well my boyfriend is an atheist. I love him, and he is too important to me to only see the fact that he dosent believe in God, but it sometimes makes things difficult.

Advice?
And what are your views on religion and relationships?

What do you mean "most of Catholic values"? I ask because one of the Church's teachings/requirements is an obligation to raise a Catholic family. That means that when you have children, if you do, you have an obligation to raise them Catholic. Most dioceses, if they keep to the Church law, require that in the case of mixed-faith marriages (this is what your would be), the Catholic spouse must give assurances and promise to raise any children born of the marriage Catholic.

Inasmuch as I think "love will/can overcome" is a bit naive, I do think they a couple of mixed faiths can marry and live happily, but that one or both will have to make concessions on deeply-held beliefs. When those beliefs have something to do with salvation, eternity, and even how to live as a married couple, I wonder whether two people of comparable, strong conviction can make concessions without watering-down their respective beliefs. In this respect, I think you should discuss this, and a future that might involve having children.

Catholics are Catholic because we believe it is right, not simply "right for us." Having children and letting them decide, as some have suggested, seems to enable them to make a decision that, from a Catholic/religious perspective, might lead them away from what you've determined, as a Catholic, to be the one, true faith. Though, perhaps, on this account, since I don't know more about your personal Catholic faith, I might be wrong.

My sister, once-Catholic, married a Jewish man. They're coming up on their fifteenth year of marriage! Although my brother-in-law is what I would call a "secular Jew," my sister's lack of Catholic conviction has done wonders for their marriage, in the sense that in giving up her faith, they have not had to deal with it in making decisions about their marriage. They're quite happy together, no doubt, but their respective lack of religious faith seems to me a precursor for this.

[Vladimir]

My brother is orthodox christian and he married a catholic woman. It wasn't to big of a deal till marriage, what they ended up doing was marrying in both churches. Now when they get kids it is a different story they will have to figure that one out. It's all about compromise.

! As an Orthodox Christian I thought this would have been one of the easier combinations out there! Part of that may be my conversion though I guess, though I have few ties to my protestant childhood, I am more willing to embrace a sort of compromise over faith than many cradle orthodox I guess. (If only because had there been no Protestant church, I probably wouldn't have ended up in the Orthodox Church).

[Tyler]

The most important question you can ask yourself is how important is your relationship to God? If you think of your religion as one of the major facets of your life, you must ask yourself is your relationship with this man worth your relationship with God? Have you asked him what he thinks about the situation? If you're strong enough in your faith, ask if and when you have children, if you can raise them in your religion, because that's whats important to you. Explain to him the moral lessons one can learn from such an upbringing. Also, make sure he's Atheist and not Agnostic. Atheist, being broken down into it's greek roots means "without God" while Agnostic means "without knowledge," maybe he just doesn't know what he believes. No matter what the outcome of this situation, make sure that you're staying true to your relationship with God, it might mean the end of your relationship with this man, and that could be a very bad thing, it's really dependant on, again, how important your faith is to you.

[Damethe]

I suppose I don't hold my religious beliefs in as high as a regard as most people....I am a PK, my dad is part of a rotating pastorate at my church, and my mom is a very devout believer... Before my parents met, my dad was an agnostic. (Keep in mind, agnosticism is not a lack of belief, it is a lack of knowledge. Agnosticism and atheism are not interchangeable. ) I was raised in the church, saw the way that other "Christians" act, most of the stuff didn't jive with me. I believe that there is a god. I'm not sure if its the Christian god, the Jewish god, the Hindu god, the Buddhist god, etc.... I will never have the capacity to hold that knowledge. I do know, from my short time on this earth, that organized religion is not my bag... I guess you could call me an Agnostic Theist.... I have also studied many religions (one of the things I thank my parents for letting me experience in my youth). I've been to numerous churches, temples, mosques, etc. Its all the same ends, just a different means... People just want to believe in something (Christians believe in God, Atheists believe there is no God)...Hell even nihilists believe in something (nothing)...That's just a little background so you can keep my perspective in context.

I would first ask the question: Is this person truly an atheist, or do they just hold the belief that there can not be a god since there is know knowledge proving a god exists? This is where most "atheists" become agnostic... Many "atheists" believe that something...some higher power... not necessarily God...is out there... they just don't have the ability to believe it because it can't be proven (AKA having no faith, as Christians call it)... This type of person will be easier to work with, as certain things can be shown to them that might make them change their views... be careful with this though, as you don't want to become too preachy, or trying to convert the person... And DO NOT...under any circumstance...berate or belittle them because they don't believe in the same thing as you do... not only will things not end well, but it will make you look like a jackass...even things like "I can't believe you don't believe in God" are bad to say, unless you are explicitly discussing religion...

Now for the second part...

I've noticed over the years that the three religions that have the biggest beef with falling in love with someone outside of their sect-of-choice are Catholics, Jews, and Muslims. Three of the worlds oldest sects... Three of the worlds most hated sects (most of the hatred is between the differing sects)... Is this a coincidence? Probably... but then again... These three sects push have staunch beliefs when it comes to those who are non-believers... these beliefs are passed down over generations, making it so Catholics only want to marry Catholics, Jews to Jews, Muslims to Muslims.... Is this right? To each their own... Just because its been ingrained into your subconscious beliefs, doesn't mean that it has to become an issue...It only becomes a deal breaker when you make it one.

I have friends that have married outside of their particular religious affiliations, and things, thus far, have worked out nicely for them. One couple (He's a Muslim, she's a Catholic) have been married for 5 years now and are expecting their first child. They got married in a Catholic church... As you may or may not know, in order to get married in most Catholic churches, you have to become a Catholic.... Which he did... Its not hard to sit through 4 hours of Catechism for 4-6 weeks, pick a confirmation name, then forget all about it and go back to your own religion... While Muhammad and Jesus/God probably got pissed off about this, they did it... They love each other very much, and they plan on teaching their children to become more tolerant of other religions by teaching them both religions, as well as Judaism. The second couple (He's an Atheist, she's a Jew) have been married for 2 years now. They got married in a Temple...you know what that means! He converted to Judaism... He even got to read from the Torah.... Did he start believing in the God of Abraham? No. But they both love each other, and religion doesn't play a big roll in their lives...When they decide to have kids, the kids will be raised Jewish, but will not be forced to go Temple if they do not want to.... The third couple (He's a Catholic, she's an Atheist) have been married for over 20 years... She didn't convert to Catholicism, they got married on the beach of Lake Michigan, and they have 3 kids, of which 1 is Catholic, 1 is Atheist, and 1 picked up Paganism along the line... They're a happy family...The biggest thing with all three couples is the fact that they don't try to push their beliefs onto their partners, and they have both agreed to be open about religion with their children.

Truth is subjective...

If you want things to go well, they will go well... if you don't want them to go well (consciously or not), they're destined for failure...Being in a relationship is all about making concessions...

I hope this helps either the OP or it will spark new debate...

Wow, that gave me alot to think about. thank you so much for your post.

[Damethe]

children are smarter than us grown ups give them credit for. simply tell them this is what mommy believes and this is what daddy believes. they will figure out who in there mind is right. but treat them with respect when telling them this.

dont say well daddys an idiot because he believes this and dont let him do the same. make sure you state it in clear English without bashing the other persons belief. most of the time when kids get confused its because we as adults talk to them like there kids. (I know THEY ARE KIDS but our presumption of what kids can understand is far different than what is truth.)

and as for weddings give a little on both sides he loves you and he wants you to have the wedding of your dreams. (or as close to it as possible) he will be willing to have a church wedding. he may ask to write his own vows instead of using the religious ones. and thats where your part of the compromise would come in by allowing him to do so.

when I was with my ex we had our wedding planed out it was to be a church wedding but we had the preacher rewrite the parts that pertained to me so they were non religious. Unfortunately we never made it that far.

Thank you. you have been sooooo much help to me. lol