Social and Moral implications of hookah smoking.

[MrGuy]

Sort of a continuation of the thread about hookah etiquette in the other thingy.What can be said/done about people who are narrowminded towards hookah smokers. The kind of people that think as soon as you smoke hookah, you're a different person and you're destined to become a drug addict and end up ont he streets.also, what are your views on people smoking other stuff in a hookah (be it marijuana and other illegal substances, or salvia (Semi legal) or tea leaves (legal))

[Sonthert]

To each, his own. Why judge other people by one's own subjective standards? 

[DarthHookah]

question 1- kill them.
question 2- doesnt bother me, though  idont smoke anything else.

[MrGuy]

question 2- doesnt bother me, though  idont smoke anything else.me either, doesnt stop people assuming i do and my life is going to become a wreck because of something i don't do.

[pauldavis]

well i do smoke other stuff and my life is not in shambles...smoking bud is blown out of proportion by the anti-drug people. i smoke bud a good bit and i still have a 3.7 in school and a wonderful life...so there's to that

[MrGuy]

yes sorry, i wasn't implying your life would be a shambles. A few months ago, before i discovered shisha, i might have. hooakh smoking has made me a lot more open minded and tolerent (probably because on my second hookah session, my girlfriend told me she smokes weed lol)I do agree it is blown way out of proportion. even though im not a canabis user, im a sympathizer, i think it has been blow out of proportion. to be honest, i think everyone who is anti marijuana but who drinks alcohol is a hypocritte. Thats just my opinion though.Even though i don't really support or encourage marijuana use, i don't think it should be illegal. i think it's doing more harm than good bein illegal.

[Sonthert]

Yeah, ya know prohibition, Volstead Act, social erosion, blah, blah. Now, its not the fault of the philosophy or policy, its simply a public relations problem. We can kill innocent civilians arbitrarily if we spin it right.

[Scheetz]

[quote name='MrGuy']Even though i don't really support or encourage marijuana use, i don't think it should be illegal. i think it's doing more harm than good bein illegal.[/quote] lol, that reminded me of the emo kid that wanted mary jane to become legal in my public speaking class. He made a speach about it thought it was hot shit, till I shot him down with 5 questions he couldnt possible come up a reasonable answer to.Simple problems with making it legal is this:1. You would have to control its use just like alcohol2. Are you going to have DUI's for it(your going to have to)3. Not only do you have drunk drivers who swerve when driving, now you have baked drivers who think everything is in slow motion or however the MJ will effect them.4. Now you have drunk and baked drivers. Under both influences5. Now the US is completely F'd6. You have to create some system to how baked you can be to legaly do anything (operate a vehicle, machine, be in public)7. Our school system would be worse then it is now, now the kids that were dumbasses without weed will become worse, kids who smoked occasionaly cause they didnt want to get caught by mommy and daddy will now smoke all the time, which inturn = Dropout.8. So now the average dropout rate will probably hit somewhere close to, oh lets say 70% from its 50%. Talk about a destroyed economy. 9. Do something about the damn hippies ............... the list would continue. Therefore, MJ will never become legal in our lifetime. And if it became close to being legal, I would be one of the first on capital hill protesting against it. And trust me, I dont protest sh*t.

[Scheetz]

[quote name='pauldavis']well i do smoke other stuff and my life is not in shambles...smoking bud is blown out of proportion by the anti-drug people. i smoke bud a good bit and i still have a 3.7 in school and a wonderful life...so there's to that[/quote] yes, but you make up 5% of the pot smoking population. I have good friends that smoke weed constantly and they have 3.0 gpa's in college. I also see alot of kids come in and smoke their way right back home. There arnt many pot heads who are capable of smoking and doing their school work. For every 1 there is probably 10 who cant.I have one buddy, who god help him. Cant go through the day without being baked. He goes to sleep baked and wakes up baked and continues about 8-10 smoke breaks a day. Inbetween these sessions he is taking extacy, pcp, or whatever else he can get his hands on. Hes a smart kid, has close to a 4.0 GPA but cant go without being high. I guess the big question is, how will the corporate world take him in.

[DarthHookah]

eh, protest all you want, but i think legalising marajuana would free up law enforcement, create tax income for the gov't, and remove from soceity those criminals who sell marajuana illegally (if we legalize their product, they wont make anymore money). and fopr all those other reasons you mentioned- its like that anyway. kids smoke it, people drive and smoke it, and all of your other reasons are apocolyptic worst case scenarios that probably wont happen.

[MrGuy]

[quote name='Scheetz'] [quote name='MrGuy'] Even though i don't really support or encourage marijuana use, i don't think it should be illegal. i think it's doing more harm than good bein illegal.[/quote] lol, that reminded me of the emo kid that wanted mary jane to become legal in my public speaking class. He made a speach about it thought it was hot shit, till I shot him down with 5 questions he couldnt possible come up a reasonable answer to.Simple problems with making it legal is this:1. You would have to control its use just like alcohol2. Are you going to have DUI's for it(your going to have to)3. Not only do you have drunk drivers who swerve when driving, now you have baked drivers who think everything is in slow motion or however the MJ will effect them.4. Now you have drunk and baked drivers. Under both influences5. Now the US is completely F'd6. You have to create some system to how baked you can be to legaly do anything (operate a vehicle, machine, be in public)7. Our school system would be worse then it is now, now the kids that were dumbasses without weed will become worse, kids who smoked occasionaly cause they didnt want to get caught by mommy and daddy will now smoke all the time, which inturn = Dropout.8. So now the average dropout rate will probably hit somewhere close to, oh lets say 70% from its 50%. Talk about a destroyed economy. 9. Do something about the damn hippies ............... the list would continue. Therefore, MJ will never become legal in our lifetime. And if it became close to being legal, I would be one of the first on capital hill protesting against it. And trust me, I dont protest sh*t. [/quote] Okay, in your opinion, what caused more death damage and crime, prohibition or leglization of alcohol. Think about it. Prohibition bought: - organised crime - more drinking addicts - more law enforcement required - more death because the government didnt have any control over it, thus people were dying and going blind from moonshine - more expensive alcohol.Now im not saying legalizing alcohol was all good because that bought: - DUI, law enforcement needed to control it - easier access to it.and theres probably more. but legalizing alcohol also bought: - less organised crime - less drinking addicts - safer alcohol because it was regulated - cheaper alcohol because it was safely mass produced by big companies. - income for government in alcohol salesI think MJ is a bigger problem across the pind in the UK here. now, the only way the government can go is to legalise it. recently a government document slipped out that was a study into alcohol purely based on scientific information, and based on that, it concluded alcohol should be a class A drug! and after the (relatively) recent reclassificatio of MJ as a class C drug, our government is in a shambles on it's drug policies. As i said, the only way it can go now is to legalize it. Legalizing it would have the same benefits as lifting prohibiton on alcohol, but as you said the same downsides. But these downsides have been handled with prohibition (well, sort of handled lol) so they can be done again with MJ.As i said, im not an MJ user, look through any posts relating to it and i usually chip in my opinion. I dont smoke weed and i don't intend to, it's just not my thing. it doesn't taste nice. i'm not saying i never will. if the laws change again, i might consider it but for the time being, i'm a law abiding citizen (apart from the numerous alcohol related police cautions i have)And the hippies issue, we don't really have them, we just have really gothic stoners. dont have a problem with moshers, metalheads and goths, but the "stoner" ones are just wierd and pretty sadistic to be honest lol.

[Barnzy02]

i had made a new thread, but then i started reading this and realized this is almost exactly what i was talking about. i just quit drinking because i feel it is a much bigger demon (atleast in my case) than smoking pot.alcohol turns people into assholes. a few beers isn't so bad but, its pretty much the same story with anything, when something is abused it turns into a problem. now, i just started smoking pot about 2 years ago. i had smoked it before, but i never 'smoked' (more than once a month) i smoke now 4-5 times a day. i work a 9-5 job, i live with my girlfriend, i pay my rent and my bills. why the hell shouldn't i be able to get high when i get home. But johnny drunk can go to the bar after work, get sloshed then come home and beat his wife and kids. now there are plenty of deadbeat pot heads, but theres just as many dead beat alcoholics. so that isnt an argument against marijuana.

[Scheetz]

[quote name='MrGuy']As i said, im not an MJ user, look through any posts relating to it and i usually chip in my opinion. I dont smoke weed and i don't intend to, it's just not my thing. it doesn't taste nice. i'm not saying i never will. if the laws change again, i might consider it but for the time being, i'm a law abiding citizen (apart from the numerous alcohol related police cautions i have)[/quote] Yes, but the other issue is America is a fairly new country compared to Europe. Englands drinking age is 18 correct? Maybe younger, italy doesnt have a drinking age, just the bartenders discretion. Germany is young as are most of the countries in the east.The issue comes to the fact that we have a 21 year old age limit for alcohol and even that is never followed. Its abused before you are even close to coming of age. Pornography is frowned upon here, where as in Europe you see tits and ass in a shampoo comercial, and porn hotline numbers come on tv with nude women at 10:00. We are very sheltered in the US, which is why legalizing MJ wouldnt work. It would be worse then it is now, its abused already, and the people who fear the law who dont touch it would. Sure the Gov. could make bank from its sale, but its abuse would be worse than alcohol. Plus they would have a decision to make, a legal smoking age of 18? or no. Doesnt matter really, every kid is going to have it on him.Legalize it in Europe, you dont have any problems that could compare to what would happen in the US. Maybe in about 200 years when our laws unshelter the population. Until then Christian Idealists will be damned if they let anything happen they dont condone.

[Sonthert]

Foreword: In the course of this discussion, it really doesn't matter who does and doesn't smoke marijuana.Scheetz, you blew away a mo-mo...1. People are goin to continue to use drugs anyways. The prohibition of alcohol almost detroyed the democracy and free government of the Unites States, moreso than many people realize. Drugs are grown and imported from other countries. Countries that in the very near future could pose a terrorist or even military threat. Since many of these countries have lots of money and the lins betwen big drug business and government have blurred. We continue to send them money. I would say that poses a security risk. More to the point, that money is leaving the economy, which is making a bad problem (trade deficit) worse without a good accounting of how bad it is. 2. Demonizing drunk and/or stoned drivers doesn't help your case. People are already driving stoned and drunk, doing it right now. Once you offer an illegal substance, people do it to break society's rules, whats next...obviously DUI doesn't matter to them anyways. With legalizing alcohol, we have been able to educate people about drunk driving and lower its incidence. Marijuana remaining illegal doesn't allow that possibility as easily.3. Alcohol is physically addictive, marijuana is not. People die on a daily basis from alcohol withdrawl. Alcohol is one of the only drugs you can die from the chemical effects of withdrawl from. Marijuana, is then, much safer to stop using than alcohol in a macro-sense. Smoking cigarettes is just inviting death, sorry. Smoking marijuana may not be much better, but its more likely that its no worse than smoking a cigar, and cigar smokers have lower cancer rates according to some studies than cigarette smokers. More to the point, caffeine isn't regulated at all and its more addictive than alcohol, marijuana, heroine, cocaine, PCP or almost any illegal drug (Except Meth). 4. In the Netherlands, when drugs were "legalized", drug use rates increased for a couple of years and then dropped off significantly. Bearing in mind that visitors to the country account for some of that activity, it means legalizing drugs has reduced the problem rather than exacerbated it. 5. Its not as big a problem with marijuana, but purity levels would go up, insuring people weren't receiving PCP-laced weed or whatnot which would reduce medical costs associated with overdoses or accidental poisoning. I know. You're gonna say "overdoses will increase". Perhaps, in countries where drugs are decriminalized or legalized, they don;t see increases. The US is a different country, fine. Its not provable either way, which would be true. The truth is dumbass druggies will end up in a hospital one way or another. 6. I remeber when the legal drinking age was 18 in this country. What alcohol's age of ascension is has no relevance to the conversation. In my opinion, marijuana should be legal for anyone 16 years of age or older, tobacco products (cigarettes specifically, if I could get away with it) 18 and alcohol 24 years old to buy or consume it. The two are completely different arguments.7. I am shocked AND appalled. You seem like a nice guy, Scheetz, I can't believe you want children smoking marijuana so badly. From recent high school graduates across the country, I have informally surveyed high school people and it is easier or them to buy weed than get alcoholic beverages. By continuing to have marijuana illegal, that is the reality thats in existence. The transparent taxation and regulation of alcohol allows it to be super-regulated, more than illegal drugs, making it harder for teens to get ahold of it. Despite your argument (regarding it destroying children's lives), which I find to be out of sync with the empirical evidence of the situation, marijuana use, an illegal drug, in national studies exceeds the use of alcohol in high school age children. Marijuana use in high school teens is over 50% in most areas, over 67% in some. It seems to me, although admittedly counter-intuitive, that not legalizing marijuana is actually bringing about the prognostications you prophesized for making it legal, destroying the lives of children. Check into it, forget about what you know. Marijuana use right now is more prevalant and destructive in children's lives than alcohol. If that is the case, shouldn't it be legalized to protect our children?8. We are sheltered by a fake, religious veneer that is prohibited by the constitution of the United States (Actually the Amendments thereof). US high school seniors are, on average, also the most ignorant and poorly prepared 18 year olds of almost any modern, industrialized country (must be all the illegal marijuana they've been smokin'). We are sheltered, our sheltered-ness makes for ignorant high-school seniors. So, since we are sheltered that must be OK, by your argument. I would disagree however, being sheltered can be good, but because something is screwed up doesn't mean we can roll out a blanket excuse and apologize and ignore the situation that is screwed up. I say, take of the blanket, shake out the cobwebs, lets get out there and maybe test scores will go up. Being sheltered is no excuse if something is wrong. Your logic was also the same logic that the State of South Carolina used to try and block the desegregation of the public schools in the 60s. "Everybody knows it wouldn't work, I can tell, I've been observing the people of South Carolina all my life, I know." Was a paraphrase of one witness for South Carolina's reasoning behind not integrating whites and blacks. Either way, whether people were prepared for desegregation, sheltered or not, it came very quickly, thank the good spirit of human determination. Some people argued that we should wait, not rock the boat and people weren't ready, they lost their end of the argument. The same with the argument that people aren't ready for legalized marijuana. Ready or not, we can adapt...if its the right thing to do, being ready has nothing to do with it. In fact, I'm going to start a poll.

[Barnzy02]

[quote name='Tangiers'] 3. Alcohol is physically addictive, marijuana is not. People die on a daily basis from alcohol withdrawl. Alcohol is one of the only drugs you can die from the chemical effects of withdrawl from. Marijuana, is then, much safer  to stop using than alcohol in a macro-sense. Smoking cigarettes is just inviting death, sorry. Smoking marijuana may not be much better, but its more likely that its no worse than smoking a cigar, and cigar smokers have lower cancer rates according to some studies than cigarette smokers. More to the point, caffeine isn't regulated at all and its more addictive than alcohol, marijuana, heroine, cocaine, PCP or almost any illegal drug (Except Meth).  [/quote] you nailed everything right on the head, that i could ever possibly have wanted to say.but i will say this, i agree here, but the only problem is that it is so hard to do research on marijuana b/c of the fact that it is illegal. also that any information and studies done on it are so outdated and taken from such a small group that it isn't worth anything. i just wish some people would stop and realize that it is something that has been used by people all over the world for a really really long time. They've found charred hemp seeds in places like macedonia in temple/ritual areas. i just dont understand why both marijuana and alcohol were both demonized in the early 20th century. yet alcohol is still socially acceptable and probably worse for you.

[Sonthert]

No offense, old man, but that logic is a little shaky. People practiced slavery for 4000 years, so should we legalize slavery since it has been used for a really, really long time? I say no, the merits of the argument are everything, slavery is wrong and being used by ancient peoples does not make a compelling argument.

[Sonthert]

Crap! Polls don't work, still in the new software!

[MrGuy]

pwned!!But to argue from Scheetz side for a minute, i was looking on my drinking habbits (for my age, they're quiet heavy, a lot heavier than they should be.) I (relatively) regularly binge drink, at least once a month i'd say i get totally bladdered and im 2 years under the drinking age. i wouldn't mind if i looked 18 (legal drinking age) but i don't, personally i think i look about 15, maybe younger. A legal age for consumption of purchase of a substance usually plays little role in who uses it. If a kid wants to smoke or drink, a kid will regardless of age laws so i see what you mean by putting an age law on it would be useless.But on the flip side, as i said, a kid will smoke if i kid wants to smoke, regardless of laws. so having laws prohibiting it altogether aren't and don't really stop those who wanna smoke from smoking.our legal drinking age is 18 and is never stuck to. Ever. just last week, me and a friend were walking through our local town at 12:30am, pretty trashed. there is a curfew on in our town for 10:30 on under 16 years old. We walked past 2 pairs of police men, we were both obviously intoxicated, and neither did anything. i'm not saying they drove past, the literally walked within cm of us, and did nothing but say hi. on other hand, about 2 months ago, i got an informal caution for underage possesion of alcohol. between 4 of us, we had a 24 crate, 3 bottles of random peach and coconut spirits, and 3 liters of strongbow and a bottle of absynth (yes, the stuff that like 80% alcohol and illegal in europe apart from UK france and spain) the police came and spoke to us, poored away about 10 beers a bottle of the spirits. he started pooring away the absynth so we asked him not to. he told us to get our bag and put the remainding 3/4 of the bottle of absynth in it. I think this proves that fact that your current alcohol laws not being abided anyway can't be used in arguement.I don't know about the US government but it would be nice int he UK, just or the government and advertising people to present the whole arguement. I'd say ones or twice a month i see an ad somewhere saying how drug abuse (alright, not always specifically MJ) is bad and such for your general health. i see ads regularly on how smoking kills. but i very rarely see anything saying about alcohol harming people. i mean yeah you get the odd drink driving commercial but nothing that describes alcohol and its effects entirely, e.g. the pickling of the liver, the killing of braincells, the beating of the wife etc.The number of MJ users is rising all over the world and like it or not, i think it will probably be legalised in the UK in under 50 years and will eventually be legalized in US. There's no way they can continue allowing alcohol and not MJ, it's just (for lack of a better word) stupid.

[Scheetz]

[quote name='Tangiers']7. I am shocked AND appalled. You seem like a nice guy, Scheetz, I can't believe you want children smoking marijuana so badly.  [/quote] ??? I NEVER said I wanted high schoolers smoking weed? i stated why it wouldnt happen, but I in no way stand to legalize MJ.I see what your saying, and it makes sense. However.......Im sorry, but no matter how many scientists say MJ isnt addictive, I believe its complete and utter bullshit. In MY lifetime I have never met a highschooler or college student/ recent grad who smokes on a regular basis and can just walk away from it. I've lost to many friends to MJ use, their lives have become complete wrecks and are now worthless. They work at fast food restaurants and make minimum wage when they should be atleast a junior in college working towards a degree. Even one of my best friends we thought we had saved. Got him to stop smoking and straightened his life out. 2 years later, hes back smoking hardcore and again, living at home and making minimum wage.Gateway drug or not, I dont care. Its addictive, just because someone smokes weed once every month doesnt mean anything to me. Sure alcohol can ruin your life just as much as MJ or any other drug, but theres a huge line drawn between failing out of college because you party too much (i.e. drinking all the time) and failing out from being stoned all day. Ones easier to fix than the other.This argument follows the same line as pro life/ pro choice, it goes both ways and neither can be right. You keep it illegal and people will fight to legalize it. You make it legal and people will fight to make it illegal once again.I dont see legalizing MJ a solution to anything in this country. I do believe that our age limit should be reduced to 18 for legal drinking. Just like you stated with MJ in the Netherlands, problems will raise by atleast 20% for a couple years, however when this country becomes more along the lines of Europe teen drinking issues wont be as high. Kids wont go to college and have their first beer there(yes their are still kids that have never drank before freshman year). College dropout rates will probably be less, students will be use to drinking and keeping moderation in tabs. Yes you will still have kids who just want to drink and not do anything, they are helpless and nothing you can do will change their drinking views. But who can complain, they are just like the kids who think drugs answer all their problems and give them an escape from reality.I also believe a huge push in legalizing MJ has come from this EMO lifestyle bullshit. The suburban kids with family incomes of 80k+ that think life is just so god damn hard. Yes, cause living at home when your 17, with no bills and no need for a job where your only requirement is to go to highschool and not be a complete fuck up is so hard. High school is a joke, these kids think its hard now, wait till they get out. The real world will kick their ass like it does to the ones that get that far.Meh, legalize dont legalize, either way 50% of the highschool population is fucked. Its sad when the dropout rate is that high. Wait, its not sad, its pathetic.[img]http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n31/inurface012391/e7f455ee.jpg[/img]and this is what pisses me off. Forget the joke with the nike shit. I guarentee you the chick in the following photo has wealthy parents. But oh man, at age 16 I think I need to commit suicide or slit my wrists every day because I cant take the "so many" pressures of life.[img]http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i286/rastarajah/emodoit.jpg[/img]sorry about going off topic with the EMO, but I think its a cause for alot of the drug related/ dropout rate problems.

[MrGuy]

I'll use an analogy i used on friends. CHEMICALLY, MJ isnt addictive. It's only addictive like, for example, chocolate is. people like eating chocolate, so they do it more. same with weed, peolpe arnt chemically addicted, but they like doing it so much.yeah the emo things is a loada bull. it annoys me. in the UK, hte emo trend seems ot be turning a bit. a new breed of emo's are cumming round. i dont know the name for them, but they're sort of like emo, emo hair, some emo clothing, emo attitude, but its all a big joke! they're funny as, they joke about being emo and laugh and are happy and random and cool!!

[DownZero]

My answer to the original question.. when someone who is ignorant to hookah - I just explain what it is. Most people accept it. My father did and of all people, thats all that matters. He even said that he would like to try it sometime and he doesn't even smoke anything to begin with. Why would I care what people think of me when they see me smoking at a bar while they drive down the street? I don't do any type of drug, not even smoke weed. I drink occasionally, but I can easily control my drinking. As for people smoking anyting other than shisha out of the hookah - I don't agree with it but it's their life, their hookah. When it comes to my hookah, strictly hookah tobacco.Legalizing weed - it won't be legalized in the near future IMO.. but I could care less about weed.Emo kids - i hate them and the music. It's a terrible trend that is evolving. These are the people who smoke weed because they think they look cool doing it and post it all over myspace. and thats my 2 cents.

[Barnzy02]

addiction is all about personal choice. it is their personal choice to smoke, drink, or do whatever. it is also their personal choice if they want to quit or keep going.i believe you can get addicted to things, it's pretty easy. i was addicted to cigarettes and am probably addicted to booze and maybe even weed. but i am making a conscious choice by quitting cigarettes(have been done with them for about 2-3 months) and quitting booze(just started with this one). the thing about it is, i could never do it before. not because i was addicted. Just because i didnt really want to quit. i could say i did, but i really didnt mean it. If you want to break a habit, you can. you have to actually make the effort to rid yourself of something like that. i believe in moderation. i don't feel that anything should be abused. that's the problem with most things, is that people(moreso americans) don't understand the concept of moderation. when we do things we have to do it to the extreme and that goes for all things. it's ashame but that is just the way things work.

[Sonthert]

Actually, chocalate generally contains caffeine which makes it far more addictive than marijuana.I think the general point is, Scheetz, right now, it is easier for a 16 year old high school student to buy marijuana than to buy alcohol. Difference in legal status. The illegal drug's interdiction fails because drug dealers don't check IDs the same way liquor retailers do. Marijuana is a plant, it grows more freely and easily than opium poppies, which are everywhere, still, despite the fact that they contain a highly addictive mixture of opioids including morphine. You, in fact, can't control it. It hasn't worked to this point, despite "Just Say No" and "The War on Drugs". If it isn't working to stop children from using this incredibly stupid drug, we are funneling money out of the country to potential security threats against the United States and we are spending billions of dollars as a country to continue to have it illegal, why is it illegal?Despite your irrational refusal that marijuana is addictive, scientists do know what they are talking about. The chemical details of why marijuana is not addictive are long and drawn out, but it doesn't serve to "imprint" itself in the brain where as cocaine and opioids do. Strongly. Caffeine, also strongly. People like sexing, but are they addicted? Some people do it everyday! Are they losers, addicted, dooming themselves to minimum wage jobs? I've known girls that showered 3-5 times a day...are they addicted? Just because people engage in repeated activites doesn't make them addicts. You are blaming a drug for stupid people (no offense, man) screwing up their lives. In my fraternity they teach us that persistence is everything. Many smart people are unsuccessful, many talented people are unsuccessful, many educated people are unsuccessful. The thing that separates successful people from unsuccessful ones is persistence. Marijuana has nothing to do with those stories. Those people you mentioned had no drive, no sustained ambition, the marijuana didn't take anything away except the concern for being a loser. Me personally, I can't smoke the stuff, like my old man, it has the opposite effect as its intended. It would make me unhappy as hell, but I could easily smoke marijuana next to continuously and it wouldn't change me, who I am or where I am going. People on the road to nowhere don't get lost, they just stop, look around and keep on going. Sad but true...a little drug isn't a demon, it doesn't stop people who are driven from getting where they want to. I have known people that smoked daily and then stopped, pretty much permanantly, several when I went to College. The habitual (note I said habitual, not recreational) use of drugs statistically plummets around 38-40 years of age. Something you never heard about, alcoholism cures itself about half the time (I heard two thirds of people, but that sounds wrong). Strange, but true. It would follow that marijuana "addiction" would be similar. Look at it this way, Scheetz, the world needs average people, statistically, they are indispensible. Drugs are the surest way to being an average person. Let them do it, its no skin off our noses, and there is absolutely wrong with being an average person. There are too many college graduates in this country and they aren't getting paid jack. In So. California, a starting wet chemist is making around $40,000 a year ($20/hr). We pay the cleaning lady $60 for three hours work. Construction workers, especially heavy equipment operators make as much as $100/Hr (allthough the hours are short). Airline pilots make $75/hr. That coveted college degree is crap. It doesn't mean you are going to make more money at all. In fact, unless you are an accountant or an engineer, don;t plan on making much at all from college. Marijuana is not the most common gateway drug, smoking and alcohol are far more prevalant. You've lost friends, I lost my niece to a speedball (cocaine/heroin), she died at the age of 25, leaving four kids behind. I greive, but I am resolute. Continuing interdiction of most drugs is deleterious to the economy, to people, to the governement and to our democracy.

[pauldavis]

ot to mention the fact that if marijuana was legalized it would stop, for the most part, being a gateway drug. the reasoning behind this is that the reason pot smokers sometimes move to harder drugs is because they get their pot from dealers who also offer harder substances. if i started buying marlboro greens (and yes, marlboro already has a line of spliffs ready for the big day) from 7-11, you can be damn sure they won't have a rack of china white sitting behind the counter as well

[pauldavis]

sorry for the double post, but in response to the whole "emo" thing, i started smoking pot in 7th grade, not because i wanted to get high, not because of "pressures." i have understood from the begining that i was getting a free ride in high school. i have also not known anyone who has smoked pot for those reasons...everyone i know has smoked because a majority of people (tangiers type excluded) ENJOY GETTING HIGH! same as people enjoy having a couple of drinks