Canadian Duties On Shisha Tobacco

[booya]

According to H-S and Hookahlife, the Canadian government is doing a "crackdown" on shisha.

Anyway, I was just cleaning my hookahs, something I find to be good for meditation and lucidity, and I had an idea so crazy and radical that it just might... be crazy and radical. Maybe it's silly and useless, but let me know what you think.

We know that North American governments tend to be ultra-sensitive about being PC and maintaining cultural sensitivity... We know that there is a disgustingly widespread trend in America, and to a lesser extent, Canada, to express discrimination, hatred and fear toward Muslims and Islamic culture.

What if we started an obnoxious but loud, blatant but clandestine, and manipulative but potentially effective website calling out for the total banning of Ma'assal because it is "terrorist smoke" or some equally ridiculous assertion. There could be newsletters, etc., to get lots of loud but politically impotent rednecks behind the movement. Would it be enough to compell Canadian customs laws to relax shisha taxation as a reactionary gesture?

Or maybe it's just something to muse over while you're cleaning your hookahs.

THAT is f-ing hilarious!

and about this crackdown... what exactly are they doing? Edited November 18, 2007 by booya

[bradfordr]

mnhookah.com..

call them, you will get your package without customs knowing

True Fact; I'm from McGill University in Montreal and have ordered huge quantities over 5 times from these guys; never had a problem yet.

But their shipping rates to Canada are so astronomical that it doesn't make much difference in the end.

Well, I wouldn't go that far. At a dime a gram duties, surely the premium they're placing on the shipping isn't as "astronomical" as the duties you'd pay.

I just ordered 12 cans of Starbuzz (3 Kilos, 6.6 Pounds!) from them and paid like 40$ for the fastest method of shipping; I didnt think it was too bad.

[ASUSEAN1]

mnhookah.com..

call them, you will get your package without customs knowing

True Fact; I'm from McGill University in Montreal and have ordered huge quantities over 5 times from these guys; never had a problem yet.

But their shipping rates to Canada are so astronomical that it doesn't make much difference in the end.

Well, I wouldn't go that far. At a dime a gram duties, surely the premium they're placing on the shipping isn't as "astronomical" as the duties you'd pay.

I just ordered 12 cans of Starbuzz (3 Kilos, 6.6 Pounds!) from them and paid like 40$ for the fastest method of shipping; I didnt think it was too bad.

better than the hundreds of dollars worth of duties you would have to pay for it.. if i lived in Canada i wouldnt even second guess who I should order from..

[gaia.plateau]

Well, I wouldn't go that far. At a dime a gram duties, surely the premium they're placing on the shipping isn't as "astronomical" as the duties you'd pay.

I just ordered 12 cans of Starbuzz (3 Kilos, 6.6 Pounds!) from them and paid like 40$ for the fastest method of shipping; I didnt think it was too bad.

When I ordered the merchandise came to $18, and the s&h was $22 for the slowest method. I looked up how much it would be to ship 3 250g cans of tobacco, and for under $60 the shipping was still $27 for the slowest method. For orders under $80, you're looking at a 200% increase over competitors.

For 1 box of Golden Coals, you're looking at $23 shipping as opposed to competitors like Hookah-Shisha, PirateHookah, Hookahlife, etc., who charge between $9 and $12 and more than $1 less for the product to boot. The first hookah site I began to order from was based in Jordan, and they shipped for less than one quarter the cost of MNHookah by equal weight. I call that astronomical.

I'm considering ordering from them again, because they're the only company I've found that sells scalli mods, super chiefs, and glass phunnels (and I plan on buying at least one of these in the near future), but I'm not happy about it. Edited November 19, 2007 by gaia.plateau

[gaia.plateau]

better than the hundreds of dollars worth of duties you would have to pay for it.. if i lived in Canada i wouldnt even second guess who I should order from..

As far as I'm aware, there are no Canadian shisha companies... or we would be ordering from them.

And if the word of a customs official is to be trusted, as long as you give them an invoice of your order beforehand, you can get away with only paying .18 cents per 100g. Mind you those are Canadian cents, so that's something like $400 American. (It's our turn now!).

[Johnny_D]

better than the hundreds of dollars worth of duties you would have to pay for it.. if i lived in Canada i wouldnt even second guess who I should order from..

As far as I'm aware, there are no Canadian shisha companies... or we would be ordering from them.

And if the word of a customs official is to be trusted, as long as you give them an invoice of your order beforehand, you can get away with only paying .18 cents per 100g. Mind you those are Canadian cents, so that's something like $400 American. (It's our turn now!).

You [and others from canada] have totally missed the point made a few times by myself and Sean.

There are some vendors [in america] who are happy to get your goodies to you without having to worry with customs.

I live in the UK and our taxes and customs are just as over zealous as yours. yet i have had well over 20 packages in the past year from one supplier and not one has been hit.

JD

[gaia.plateau]

You [and others from canada] have totally missed the point made a few times by myself and Sean.

There are some vendors [in america] who are happy to get your goodies to you without having to worry with customs.

I live in the UK and our taxes and customs are just as over zealous as yours. yet i have had well over 20 packages in the past year from one supplier and not one has been hit.

JD

What point have you made? I only came to this site a month ago, and if you've expressed a point regarding shipping to Canada in something I might have read since then, I would appreciate some help in realizing what I've missed.

Who is your supplier? Which vendors are you talking about? 6 of the 7 I have contacted via e-mail have outright refused to risk breaking customs law by mislabeling or otherwise.

Edit: and the 1 that is willing to ship as "molasses" has a very small product selection. Edited November 19, 2007 by gaia.plateau

[Johnny_D]

You [and others from canada] have totally missed the point made a few times by myself and Sean.
JD

Who is your supplier? Which vendors are you talking about? .

Edit: and the 1 that is willing to ship as "molasses" has a very small product selection.

speak to mnhookahs.com

It has been said a couple of times within this thread allready.

They are the only place i will shop from for international orders.

There are no guarantees of course. But it's certainly worth a shot. and keep your orders resonable. I suggest no more than 3 boxes of shisha [that is my own personal limit]

JD

[gaia.plateau]

You [and others from canada] have totally missed the point made a few times by myself and Sean.
JD

Who is your supplier? Which vendors are you talking about? .

Edit: and the 1 that is willing to ship as "molasses" has a very small product selection.

speak to mnhookahs.com

It has been said a couple of times within this thread allready.

They are the only place i will shop from for international orders.

There are no guarantees of course. But it's certainly worth a shot. and keep your orders resonable. I suggest no more than 3 boxes of shisha [that is my own personal limit]

JD

I'll shoot them an e-mail about it, though its taken them 3 days and counting to respond to my last one... my qualms about ordering from mnhookahs would be that they are pretty limited in tobacco selection (only one flavour of Tangiers in stock, for example), and their shipping price would cancel out the savings from not having to pay customs fees. (I imagine that the shipping markup would become neglible if I were ordering 8+ boxes of shisha, but as you say that would likely deter them from slipping it through customs).

Edit: I checked on the shipping cost to Suffolk, UK for MNHookah, Hookah Life, Hookah-Shisha, and Hookah Hookah, and I noticed that the shipping difference is negligible - only $4-$5. For Saskatchewan, however, MNHookah charges roughly 100% more than comparable companies Edited November 19, 2007 by gaia.plateau

[MN Hookah]

gaia.plateau,

Im sorry if we havent responded to your emails , but we usally dont respond on the weekends as we are not open during that time. Also if the shipping prices are , our shipping system was not working correctly this weekend and was changing peoples shipping to Express but that problem has been fixed. On tangiers we have more than one flavor in stock , but we do sell alot of tangiers and fast so we are awaiting a shipment from him .

If you have any other questions please feel free to contact me directly at tarik@mnhookah.com

Tarik
MNH

[chinamon]

ok. i got an email back from the Canadian Border Services Agency.. here is what they said...

We presume you are referring to postal importations.

Information on duties and taxes payable on tobacco products imported by mail is accessible from the "Publications" section of the Canada Border Services Agency Web site at the following URLs:

Provincial Sales Tax (PST) and Tobacco Tax
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/pu...1-eng.html#P010

Importing Non-Commercial Goods by Mail
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/pub/rc4051-eng.html

We also invite you to contact the Border Information Service (BIS) by telephone and speak to an agent directly for additional assistance with your enquiry. You can access the BIS line free of charge throughout Canada by calling 1-800-461-9999. If you are calling from outside Canada, you can access the BIS line by calling (204) 983-3500 or (506) 636-5064 (long-distance charges will apply).

If you call during regular business hours (8:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. local time, Monday to Friday, except holidays), you can speak directly to an agent by pressing "0" at any time.

Thank you for contacting the Canada Border Services Agency.

Internet: www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca
E-mail: cbsa-asfc@canada.gc.ca

Canada Border Services Agency
Ottawa, ON K1A 0L8

Government of Canada | Gouvernement du Canada

i read through some of the stuff and this is whats going on for ontario..
PST is collected (7%) on the declared value + whatever the current tax rate is for loose tobacco (i think it was $0.1235 ?)
also.....

When items are imported by mail, Canada Post is authorized to charge the recipient a fee for the collection and remittance of the duty and taxes owing the government. If your mail item is duty and/or tax-free, you do not have to pay the fee.

the pdf file that is linked in the pst & tobacco tax page is slightly outdated since it lists pst as 8%.

[gaia.plateau]

gaia.plateau,

Im sorry if we havent responded to your emails , but we usally dont respond on the weekends as we are not open during that time. Also if the shipping prices are , our shipping system was not working correctly this weekend and was changing peoples shipping to Express but that problem has been fixed. On tangiers we have more than one flavor in stock , but we do sell alot of tangiers and fast so we are awaiting a shipment from him .

If you have any other questions please feel free to contact me directly at tarik@mnhookah.com

Tarik
MNH

No worries MNH.

I'm basing my perceptions of your shipping prices on a. my last order from you, several weeks ago, and b. some investigation this weekend. I didn't notice a discrepancy between the prices of the two experiences. Has this problem with changing shipping to express been going on that long?

Regarding Tangiers, on your website drop-down menu the only available option is cola... which is actually the one massel flavour above all overs that I imagine would be irredeemably disgusting. Do you have other flavours available? I noticed that Tangiers is not actually selectable from your tobacco menu, but rather from your main page specials.

Apart from the shipping costs, I was satisfied with my first order from you. I will likely order again in a month or two as you are seem to currently be the exclusive dealer for several items I am interested in (glass phunnel, scalli mod, superchief)... but if you were able to find a way to make your international shipping costs competitive and if you do indeed have more Tangiers flavours, you could become my primary supplier. Edited November 20, 2007 by gaia.plateau

[booya]

Aright, so last night my order from h-s came in....

3X starbuzz
3X al fakher
2X nakhla
a vortex replacement base
phunnel bowl
free pumpkin hookah
1 silver flint coals

total with shipping came 220CAD

tax and handling was another 13 bucks when i picked up the package...

looks like customs missed this one.

i think now thats its christmas time and what not, packages will get cleared quicker and without being opened...

[zagadka]

Still haven't heard from customs (I send the package or appeal a week ago). I wonder when they'll call. Reaching them seems impossible - an endless "your call is important to us, please continue to hold"....

[Brownman18]

Agreed customs is slackiing.


I just got

2x Grape
1x Banana
2x Orange
1x Mixed Fruit
1x Mango

All Nakhla came to about $64 canadian (lol it was 66.20 USD i bought when the CDN $ was high!(also nice to see its done in real time via hookah-shisha))

Anyways H-S wrote on the contents

Middle Eastern Shish. Tob. (1750G) QTY: 7 Weght: 10 OZ Value $(US) 4 Total Value (7x4) $28 Postage/Fees $20.14

Was declared contents as other.

ill scan a copy and post it up here later.

I wonder what that H-S Guy said about "Ontario and no more duty free?"



Customs completely missed it, and H-S definitely marked it in my favour since i paid $64 and its listed as $28 + 20.14



All my orders have been listed like this previously as well, hopefully they dont change it anytime soon when i order. the sender is well i guess i shouldn't post that so as to not get any1 in trouble!

[zagadka]

Update:

still didn't hear back from anybady (I've sent the package for appeal and the postal office worker told me somebody would get back to me within a week. well, it's been almost 3 weeks)

anyhow, I called CSBA and got through within 30 seconds. However, my luck stopped there. I was informed they don't have a tracking system so my best bet would be to call Canada Post.

I did, somebody got back to me within the next day, with a direct number, but my luck once again, stopped there. He told me they have no control over the package as it's been sent back to CSBA.

arghh.

called CSBA again, was told that the appeal process can take up to 8 weeks (???), and was transferred to a voice mail of Toronto Internation Mail Department. Left a message, buy my guess is that I will not hear from them till new year's.

ARGHHH. so very mad. Now it seems that paying $300 on top of the $140 order would have been a lot easier, and quicker.

Oh well, you learn from your mistakes.

[MaxT0]

^

They overcharged me on my last order too...I picked up the package and paid it anyhow, then sent in the forms for an appeal. It took about 2 months or so before the cheque came in.

[erufiku]

Once again, our overinflated and overpayed bureaucracy is "here to serve the citizens and make their lifes easier".
That being said, I'm waiting for my order to arrive sometime next week. We'll see what happens...

[chinamon]

H-S definitely marked it in my favour since i paid $64 and its listed as $28 + 20.14

tobacco duty isnt based on value of tobacco. its based on weight so h-s didnt really mark it in your favour. they marked it honestly.

[zagadka]

^

They overcharged me on my last order too...I picked up the package and paid it anyhow, then sent in the forms for an appeal. It took about 2 months or so before the cheque came in.

i'm glad it worked out for you. i was told i HAVE to send the package back for appeal, i can't take it and then appeal.

what kind of form were they? are you in Ontario?



PS. I called CSBA and Canada Post and then CSBA and C.P. again. It seems they LOST my package. AAAAAA. This isn't happening. And to be honestly I think it got lost on C.P. side and not on CSBA. WIll go to the postal office and physically check whether they actually sent the package to customs, because it says online they did, but it's clearly sitting somewhere.

[gaia.plateau]

Okay, so some of you were wondering about the status of my correspondance with Canadian customs...

It just got resolved this evening, with the verdict that I will from this point forth pay 0% customs tax on shisha tobacco.

The official federal policy is now that it is an insignificant source of tobacco, and that its taxation simply isn't worth the paperwork. At the provincial level (in Saskatchewan) it's apparently still working on a case-by-case basis, but expect this to be implemented into official policy in the near future.

Yay!

[zagadka]

Okay, so some of you were wondering about the status of my correspondance with Canadian customs...

It just got resolved this evening, with the verdict that I will from this point forth pay 0% customs tax on shisha tobacco.

The official federal policy is now that it is an insignificant source of tobacco, and that its taxation simply isn't worth the paperwork. At the provincial level (in Saskatchewan) it's apparently still working on a case-by-case basis, but expect this to be implemented into official policy in the near future.

Yay!

that is awesome. have they sent you an official link?

[gaia.plateau]

Okay, so some of you were wondering about the status of my correspondance with Canadian customs...

It just got resolved this evening, with the verdict that I will from this point forth pay 0% customs tax on shisha tobacco.

The official federal policy is now that it is an insignificant source of tobacco, and that its taxation simply isn't worth the paperwork. At the provincial level (in Saskatchewan) it's apparently still working on a case-by-case basis, but expect this to be implemented into official policy in the near future.

Yay!

that is awesome. have they sent you an official link?

Link?

I've just been going through a provincial customs agent as a liason, and I'm pretty sure that all of us Canadians will have to go through the provincial level as a first step at this point, but no one should have any problems. Import tarriffs are a matter of federal policy, it's only administrated at the provincial level so I really doubt that any province would differ from the national shisha position.

Basically, what I did was stress that orders for shisha almost always included equipment and coals, and that the value of the tobacco, which only constitutes part of moassel, was neglible. I faxed the labels for some Al Waha and Soex molasses as well, to show the emphasis of molasses in moassel.

[zagadka]

Dec 12 2007 UPDATE:

they FOUND It. I'm so happy. I thought my package was lost forever. Canada Post thought they shipped it to customs, customs were convinced they've never received it.

however, I got a call today from a very nice guy from customs telling me he received the package. he re-evaluated the duties and told me instead of $300, he only thought it would be $200.

he told me that since hookah is a fairly new product to canada, there is no set rules to use when calculating the taxes. I've told him about "my search on the internet, and how a guy from Saskatchewan didn't pay taxes because his customs liason though there is too little tobacco to charge so much tax". customs guy agreed with me , and told me that since this is a new product, and he can use his discretion in how much taxes I'd pay, he'll waive ALL THE DUTY for me.

WooHoo. Thanks gaia.plateau. Thank you to everyone who took part in this discussion. I think my strongest argument was that
1) there is fairly little tobacco in those products and
2) other people across Canada did not have to pay tax on their orders.

to sum up: there are no set rules for this, and it depends a lot on which customs officer you deal with, and whats their mood at the time. but there is a way not to pay anything.

hell, he didn't even charge the GST.

Hopefully I get to see the package soon.

PS. I beleive it was found after I went to the postal outlet and aksed them to look for it. I don't think they ever shipped it out.

Happy holidays to all of you! Hope this thread helps somebody.

[gaia.plateau]

Congrats Zag!