Canadian Duties On Shisha Tobacco

[ASUSEAN1]

mnhookah.com..

call them, you will get your package without customs knowing

[booya]

I basically just explained what ma'assal is. Firstly, I explained that of a package containing equipment, charcoals, accessories, and etc., only a portion of the payment is for the tobacco. Moreover, ma'assal only contains -some- tobacco (I exaggerated this a bit, I admit), and that we shouldn't have to pay tax on the molasses or flavour. I subtly dropped the culture card as well, explaining that an important bastion of intercultural harmony in Canada is upheld through Hookah culture, and that taxing this bastion is constitutionally questionable.

Booya: what province do you live in? I'm in Saskatchewan, so I simply contacted the provincial customs office in Regina.

i'm in alberta. i'll give you 10 bucks if you call these guys for me!

[zagadka]

So here is an update.

I went to the postal office. My package was opened by customs (probably because the sender only put "gift" in the declaration and no other description, and the box is large and heavy). Argh. This is not the first box he shipped overseas, I don't beleive he doesn't know how to fill the declaration properly. Oh well, what's done is done.

Anyhow, the breakdown was as follows:
$19.77 GST (they put a value of $50, so it's a mystery as to how the GST came to $19.77)
$8 service charge (ok, that's fine, lower than UPS or FeDex)
$0 excise tax (weird, I thought tobacco should have this)
and hte winner is: $279.50 DUTY

for a grand total of $307.27. Considering I paid around $160 less discount for the entire order, this is very frustrating, but I've already mentioned that.


The rude lady at the post office told me that I have 2 options: pay or appeal.

Paying and appealing later is not possible (or so she told me).

I spent 30 minutes on the phoner with CBSA (border services) agency listening to their very nice and relaxing "you are on hold" music. And decided to just appeal and see what happens. CBSA put classification of the package as "pipe tobacco" so hopefully I'll be able to use the great advice of Regina man and try to persuade them to lower the tax since "hookah tobacco has very little actual tobacco in it, and it's a cultural thing, you don'yt smoke it in a pipe like you would regular tobacco, and that a 250gr box of shisha does not contain 250gr of tobacco".

I mean - how worse can this get? The worse case scenario is that I'll refuse the package, or pay the $307. Hopefully they will not increase this amount.

Oh yeah, the rude post office lady didn't allow me to look inside the package. It makes sense (since I could take something out), but I'm still upset. I wanted to see if it is all worth it.

[zagadka]

I still hope that Gaia.Plateau would write the wording that he used with CSBA.

If anyone is wondering, CBSA phone number is 1-800-461-999. And it's 0 to speak to a live person. Edited November 16, 2007 by zagadka

[booya]

So here is an update.

I went to the postal office. My package was opened by customs (probably because the sender only put "gift" in the declaration and no other description, and the box is large and heavy). Argh. This is not the first box he shipped overseas, I don't beleive he doesn't know how to fill the declaration properly. Oh well, what's done is done.

Anyhow, the breakdown was as follows:
$19.77 GST (they put a value of $50, so it's a mystery as to how the GST came to $19.77)
$8 service charge (ok, that's fine, lower than UPS or FeDex)
$0 excise tax (weird, I thought tobacco should have this)
and hte winner is: $279.50 DUTY

for a grand total of $307.27. Considering I paid around $160 less discount for the entire order, this is very frustrating, but I've already mentioned that.


The rude lady at the post office told me that I have 2 options: pay or appeal.

Paying and appealing later is not possible (or so she told me).

I spent 30 minutes on the phoner with CBSA (border services) agency listening to their very nice and relaxing "you are on hold" music. And decided to just appeal and see what happens. CBSA put classification of the package as "pipe tobacco" so hopefully I'll be able to use the great advice of Regina man and try to persuade them to lower the tax since "hookah tobacco has very little actual tobacco in it, and it's a cultural thing, you don'yt smoke it in a pipe like you would regular tobacco, and that a 250gr box of shisha does not contain 250gr of tobacco".

I mean - how worse can this get? The worse case scenario is that I'll refuse the package, or pay the $307. Hopefully they will not increase this amount.

Oh yeah, the rude post office lady didn't allow me to look inside the package. It makes sense (since I could take something out), but I'm still upset. I wanted to see if it is all worth it.

Zag... i don't think your duties stem from the tobacco actually.... i tihnk its because your package was shipped from overseas... if it had been shipped fro mthe states it would be different. NAFTA covers things made in the states and shipped to canada.

Edit: also customs levies duty and GST on what they think your package is worth. not the insured value. Edited November 16, 2007 by booya

[booya]

I still hope that Gaia.Plateau would write the wording that he used with CSBA.

If anyone is wondering, CBSA phone number is 1-800-461-999. And it's 0 to speak to a live person.

and take the package and appeal. most of the time the government is wrong..hence the ability to appeal...

[zagadka]

Zag... i don't think your duties stem from the tobacco actually.... i tihnk its because your package was shipped from overseas... if it had been shipped fro mthe states it would be different. NAFTA covers things made in the states and shipped to canada.

Edit: also customs levies duty and GST on what they think your package is worth. not the insured value.

Non-tobacco stuff is only GST and PST (I had a packaged shipped to me a few years ago, and Canada Post charges $5 service fee + GST and PST of like $2. LOL)

The Duty is for tobacoo. They (CBSA) put estimated value of $50 on the package, so $280 is like 600%. LOL. That's a lot of duty.

PS. Nafta is bs, most shisha is made overseas, thus it is not covered by NAFTA.

[zagadka]

this is what I found on one of online hookah sites:

Canadian Tobacco Customs & Duties
Duty - 4%
Excise Duty - $53.98 / Kg (0.0598 / Gram)
Excise Tax - $0.00
PST - $179.00 / Kg (0.179 / Gram)
GST - 7% (Duty + Excise Duty + Excise Tax)

It seems to be roughly correct, except there was no PST.

[booya]

Zag... i don't think your duties stem from the tobacco actually.... i tihnk its because your package was shipped from overseas... if it had been shipped fro mthe states it would be different. NAFTA covers things made in the states and shipped to canada.

Edit: also customs levies duty and GST on what they think your package is worth. not the insured value.

Non-tobacco stuff is only GST and PST (I had a packaged shipped to me a few years ago, and Canada Post charges $5 service fee + GST and PST of like $2. LOL)

The Duty is for tobacoo. They (CBSA) put estimated value of $50 on the package, so $280 is like 600%. LOL. That's a lot of duty.

PS. Nafta is bs, most shisha is made overseas, thus it is not covered by NAFTA.

true but its shipped fro mthe states so unless the shipper puts the country of origin in the box cbsa usually doesn't care. the last packege you got you said you only paid gst/pst on, where did it come from?

[zagadka]

true but its shipped fro mthe states so unless the shipper puts the country of origin in the box cbsa usually doesn't care. the last packege you got you said you only paid gst/pst on, where did it come from?

it came from the states, and it was cosmetics for about $20 or so. and I think it is actually made in the states.

Or maybe not. ANyway, it was only $20 value so customs didn't even open it. I got the money back later, since the package was market as "gift"

[booya]

true but its shipped fro mthe states so unless the shipper puts the country of origin in the box cbsa usually doesn't care. the last packege you got you said you only paid gst/pst on, where did it come from?

it came from the states, and it was cosmetics for about $20 or so. and I think it is actually made in the states.

Or maybe not. ANyway, it was only $20 value so customs didn't even open it. I got the money back later, since the package was market as "gift"

ya i tihnk it has a lot to do with your package coming from overseas... either way, please let me know what happens with the CBSA. i think all us northies need the info!

[zagadka]

will do.


overseas has a lot to do with it, but also the way declaration form was filled out. the box is pretty large and somewhat heavy, and there was absolutely nothing in the description. So obviously customs opened it.

[Brownman18]

Well my fellow canucks.

I have paid much duties in the past and the best way to avoid it, is simply to order shipments of 4 boxes.

Everytime i have ordered 4 boxes of Nakhla from H-S i never get dinged by customs.

I have placed an order for 15 boxes and coals once, and i paid duty of $152 on a $160 order.. so i ended up paying about $300 or so for 15 boxes of shisha..

The street rate is $25 around were i live (although he wants $28 now per box of Nakhla and $40 for al falkher)


So my trick is to order 4 boxes of Nakhla from h-S at a time and maybe do 3 orders so i get 12 boxes. And ive never had a problem.

However H-S would mark these boxes as molasses Shisha and have a net value of $10 on the order attached to the box.

In the discount forum they say they will no longer do this, so i guess ill have to wait and see what happens with the 7 box order i placed on my birthday. It should be here by late next week .

h-s also ships from Texas. Edited November 17, 2007 by Brownman18

[chinamon]

Well my fellow canucks.

I have paid much duties in the past and the best way to avoid it, is simply to order shipments of 4 boxes.

Everytime i have ordered 4 boxes of Nakhla from H-S i never get dinged by customs.

I have placed an order for 15 boxes and coals once, and i paid duty of $152 on a $160 order.. so i ended up paying about $300 or so for 15 boxes of shisha..

The street rate is $25 around were i live (although he wants $28 now per box of Nakhla and $40 for al falkher)


So my trick is to order 4 boxes of Nakhla from h-S at a time and maybe do 3 orders so i get 12 boxes. And ive never had a problem.

However H-S would mark these boxes as molasses Shisha and have a net value of $10 on the order attached to the box.

In the discount forum they say they will no longer do this, so i guess ill have to wait and see what happens with the 7 box order i placed on my birthday. It should be here by late next week .

h-s also ships from Texas.

give hookah-life.com a try. they have the lowest online price for 250g nakhla that ive ever seen.
im pretty sure mike or eugene will declare whatever you want on the package. just send them an email.

[Brownman18]

give hookah-life.com a try. they have the lowest online price for 250g nakhla that ive ever seen.
im pretty sure mike or eugene will declare whatever you want on the package. just send them an email.

Have you done any orders with them personally Chinamon?

Also how large orders and did they clear customs?

Just curious, i want to do one big like 14 box order maybe 3-4 of these to stock up so i dont have to keep ordering in small amounts.

[bradfordr]

mnhookah.com..

call them, you will get your package without customs knowing

True Fact; I'm from McGill University in Montreal and have ordered huge quantities over 5 times from these guys; never had a problem yet.

[gaia.plateau]

mnhookah.com..

call them, you will get your package without customs knowing

True Fact; I'm from McGill University in Montreal and have ordered huge quantities over 5 times from these guys; never had a problem yet.

But their shipping rates to Canada are so astronomical that it doesn't make much difference in the end.

[chinamon]

Have you done any orders with them personally Chinamon?

Also how large orders and did they clear customs?

Just curious, i want to do one big like 14 box order maybe 3-4 of these to stock up so i dont have to keep ordering in small amounts.

i have never ordered from them yet but i have talked to them and they are very accommodating.
however, ordering that much tobacco at one time will raise a flag with customs no matter whom you order from. i would suggest not ordering more than 5 or 6 tubs at a time. maybe send them an email and they can give you a better idea.

[manntis]

there are a couple shisha lounges going but only one sells tobacco... and now thats on the rocks because there is a province wide smoking ban coming into effect in '08. i wanted to open a lounge here but i don't think that will ahppen now because of the laws...

Yeah, I was going to open one in Saskatoon, but the city enacted a smoking ban in advance of the provincial one. And unlike BC's ban, which specifies cigarettes and cigars, Saskatoon's specifies any burning substance meant to be inhaled. Of course, I'm sure there's a loophole for sweetgrass cerimonies.

[booya]

there are a couple shisha lounges going but only one sells tobacco... and now thats on the rocks because there is a province wide smoking ban coming into effect in '08. i wanted to open a lounge here but i don't think that will ahppen now because of the laws...

Yeah, I was going to open one in Saskatoon, but the city enacted a smoking ban in advance of the provincial one. And unlike BC's ban, which specifies cigarettes and cigars, Saskatoon's specifies any burning substance meant to be inhaled. Of course, I'm sure there's a loophole for sweetgrass cerimonies.

ya i wonder how a guy could find out how places are getting around the ban... is there a resource somewhere that will divulge such information? i wonder....

[manntis]

ya i wonder how a guy could find out how places are getting around the ban... is there a resource somewhere that will divulge such information? i wonder....

The ones who are seem to be tight-lipped. The first thing I did, knowing a Sask ban was coming, was call ones in BC to find out how they circumvented BC regs. They were slippery about it (probably presuming I was an investigative reporter or VPD or something), but further research showed that the BC version of the ban (at the time - it may have changed) didn't include all tobacco, but cigarettes and cigars specifically.

[booya]

ya i wonder how a guy could find out how places are getting around the ban... is there a resource somewhere that will divulge such information? i wonder....

The ones who are seem to be tight-lipped. The first thing I did, knowing a Sask ban was coming, was call ones in BC to find out how they circumvented BC regs. They were slippery about it (probably presuming I was an investigative reporter or VPD or something), but further research showed that the BC version of the ban (at the time - it may have changed) didn't include all tobacco, but cigarettes and cigars specifically.

Ah... see calgarys bylaw states "tobacoo burning of any kind" so i guess that covers it all... but herbal shisha is exempt. but now the rumor is that all shisha is exempt. so who knows... i ithnk the only way to find out for sure is to hire a lawyer.

[manntis]

Ah... see calgarys bylaw states "tobacoo burning of any kind" so i guess that covers it all... but herbal shisha is exempt. but now the rumor is that all shisha is exempt. so who knows... i ithnk the only way to find out for sure is to hire a lawyer.

There was another thread somewhere in which a forum member was complaining about hookah lounges successfully lobbying to get them permitted under cultural practices. However, there are other precidents for this such as natives being able to perform sweetgrass burning, etc.

If laws are made too extreme against burning substances being inhaled, then Catholic and Ukranian Orthodox wouldn't be able to burn incense in church.

i'm for general smoking bans - I shouldn't have to choke on second hand smoke while enjoying a meal in a restaurant because someone wants to light up a cigarette, nor should wait staff have to breathe it in all day. But when someone is entering an establishment who's prime function is smoking, like a hookah or cigar lounge - whether as customer or because they want to work there - they should be reasonably willing to accept that there will be smoking and the government should allow adults to make that decision.

[zagadka]

i'm for general smoking bans - I shouldn't have to choke on second hand smoke while enjoying a meal in a restaurant because someone wants to light up a cigarette, nor should wait staff have to breathe it in all day. But when someone is entering an establishment who's prime function is smoking, like a hookah or cigar lounge - whether as customer or because they want to work there - they should be reasonably willing to accept that there will be smoking and the government should allow adults to make that decision.

agree 100%

I think Ontario's ban is for tobacco, so non tobacco smoking is ok (i.e. herbal shisha)

[gaia.plateau]

According to H-S and Hookahlife, the Canadian government is doing a "crackdown" on shisha.

Anyway, I was just cleaning my hookahs, something I find to be good for meditation and lucidity, and I had an idea so crazy and radical that it just might... be crazy and radical. Maybe it's silly and useless, but let me know what you think.

We know that North American governments tend to be ultra-sensitive about being PC and maintaining cultural sensitivity... We know that there is a disgustingly widespread trend in America, and to a lesser extent, Canada, to express discrimination, hatred and fear toward Muslims and Islamic culture.

What if we started an obnoxious but loud, blatant but clandestine, and manipulative but potentially effective website calling out for the total banning of Ma'assal because it is "terrorist smoke" or some equally ridiculous assertion. There could be newsletters, etc., to get lots of loud but politically impotent rednecks behind the movement. Would it be enough to compell Canadian customs laws to relax shisha taxation as a reactionary gesture?

Or maybe it's just something to muse over while you're cleaning your hookahs.