clibinarius

I was going to invite a vegan friend to smoke with me, but noticed in Fusion tobacco honey as an ingredient. I then contacted fakher to ask if they have any products without honey, but they do not. My question is, does anyone know of vegan brands?

Thanks. I'm going to go with the tealight. [quote name='F16WarBird' date='31 March 2010 - 02:33 AM' timestamp='1270017192' post='460957'] [quote name='clibinarius' date='31 March 2010 - 05:49 AM' timestamp='1270003785' post='460929'] I'm assuming MNHookah is relatively dead, as I haven't gotten in touch with them via email, phone, and various webpages are down.[/quote] I don't know about the phone or email, but the website is functioning. In fact, I ordered a mod from them last week and received a shipping notice. [/quote] I haven't received an email or gotten in touch with them for months, though I sent two emails out very recently. With their customer support being the way it is, I'm very hesitant to order. Yes, I've heard about orders going through, but I'm not ordering until I know they're there for me...if you get your order, that's great (Not being sarcastic, it is), but I'm not taking my chances since half the website IS not online...

I'm assuming MNHookah is relatively dead, as I haven't gotten in touch with them via email, phone, and various webpages are down. Now, here's the question. I love my funnel, I really do. But I notice, there's a huge difference when a mod's not on, and though I've been making mods out of foil shaped around 2 liter bottle caps and removing the caps...I'd really like to be able to use something more solid. I can't find for the life of me where these things are still sold, however. Anyone know of anywhere selling the scalli mod or anything remotely similar?

QUOTE (delSol_si @ Sep 29 2009, 09:37 AM) My sentiments exactly

QUOTE (BohoWildChild @ Sep 23 2009, 10:18 PM) I'm not sure you have any acquaintance to the way our judicial system really works. Because I guarantee you, you're actually guilty until you prove your inocence and very likely to be railroaded to keep the prosecutors numbers up. People need to remember what it's like to be on the otherside of this coin. Imagine for just a moment this is not the big bad have all the goodies USA. Imagine we're the 3rd world end of things - low standard of living, a constant big brother who keeps showing up to insist we do things their way and putting their soilders on our soil to make sure we do, financial and economic pressure, all down the line. They've got the nuclear warheads. Wouldn't you want a few of your own as a deterrant? While I don't believe nuclear proliferation is a good thing, I believe it's an understandable thing given the inequalities between this nation and most of the rest of the world. We don't have much of a cow about our so called allied nations having them, but no we want to stereotype the "crazy" nations and assume they're going to develop weapons specifically to use them against us. Kinda makes you wonder what we did to piss them off to the point we so sure they're going to use them offensively doesn't it? 'Rani Sigh...I know I know. But it shouldn't work that way. I'm bringing up the "Correct model" instead of the "real model"!

QUOTE (StreetBob @ Sep 22 2009, 10:49 PM) If the police has a search warrant you will not get away with declining Yes they found nothing, but wasn't allowed to search where and when they needed. The proof doesn't have to be undeniable if you are not following the conditions of surrender, but that's my opinion, obviously you don't agree, I'm OK with that. I understand a lot of people do not see it the way I do. The problem with Iraq is there was a "Guilty Until Proven Innocent" type of bend here. Even if someone has a search warrant, you are still innocent until proven guilty. If there's enough evidence of a crime, it gets brought to trial and a decision is rendered and executed in the trial. In this case, there was no basis to bring it to trial. If someone acts suspicious, that does not mean the police have a right to railroad them. Of course, nations aren't people and thus don't deserve the same rights as people. By your standard, why not invade DPRK for their weapons? Pakistan? India? Israel? Those Swedes are up to something-I suggest we look through their bomb project too. Why Iraq? I honestly believe, once again, we invaded Iraq because people know its Arab, can't tell the difference between it and Morocco, and MIGHT be able to find it on a map. I don't believe there was any other reasoning. It didn't make much sense for the arguments given and while there MIGHT be some good reasons to invade Iraq, the government never gave them to anyone, and thus, it could be concluded the government probably didn't have any good reasons to invade Iraq. Suppose that tomorrow, WMDs are found in Iraq. Does that get the Bush administration off the hook? No. For that administration had no intelligence they were there and were found purely by chance or outside help by this point. Its a political failure-Iraq-more than anything else. All reasons given for why we should be there turned out to be rather faulty. If people STILL are justifying the war as "The world's a better place without Saddam" I would simply counter "Then why not continue making the world a better place?"-that's an easy way to call "BS" on this argument, because to imply Saddam is the worst evil in the world ignores all the other evils, and thus, is ignorant. Suppose the world is a better place without him; that doesn't make us safer (it is a neutral statement) and thus has nothing to do with the pretext.

QUOTE (BohoWildChild @ Sep 20 2009, 09:21 PM) Uh..... Back in 1999 I was dating an officer in the US Marines. He told me then we'd be in Iraq and Afghanistan within 3-4 years because it was common knowledge among high ranking officers that it was on the agenda and an excuse would be manufactured if necessary. So what do you know..... We're in Iraq and Afghanistan just like he said. Damn wonder how that happened? Ten years ago I was told this was coming. Ten years. And people wonder why I don't trust our government. I love my people and the land itself, but our government is about as trustworthy as a pedophile running a preschool. 'Rani Back in 1999, I was essentially a child (13) and even I knew we were going to invade Afghanistan, but the question was when. It wasn't hard to figure out. Clinton did bomb them. I remember being in Texas and it was in the newspapers, the threat posed by Afghanistan. I remember mentioning it in class, also, and the teacher concurred (the rest of the students had no clue what we were talking about). It wasn't just common knowledge among high ranking officers: Anyone who was paying attention knew. Including children. The problem was, no one was paying attention. By and large, the scary part about all things political, no one's paying attention STILL. Its sort of amazing. I remember people talking about how September 11th changed everything. I can't think of too many things it changed except a bunch of dumb bureaucratic programs sprung up that didn't prevent massive terrorist attacks in Britain or Spain-the Spanish example might be evidence of a profound failure of intelligence, since it knocked the Spanish out of the Iraq War. As far as Iraq is concerned, it was an Arab country with name recognition. I honestly think we were there because 2 out of every 3 bureaucrats could probably find it on a map. I think, by and large, the people running the country are that dumb. I used to tell a joke to liberal friends when it came to Bush being too stupid to run the country: "He's too dumb to be running the country. It must be Cheney." "Too dumb? Really? But do you think the country's being run by an idiot?" "Yes!" "Then how on earth can you conclude that (Cheney is running the country)? If its run by an idiot, and Bush is an idiot, I think it indicates Bush is in charge!"

You know...vandalism upon leaving a house such as that should be a criminal offense...

QUOTE (ilikemyusername @ Sep 17 2009, 08:28 PM) just have them cut it out and call it a day. That would be a little much and a last resort. I'd stop smoking entirely though. Doesn't mean smoke washed. It still interferes with oxygen going into the body. If that doesn't improve things at all, then smoke washed. Your doctor said essentially no stimulants (tobacco, coffee, chocolate), but I'd keep circulation as up as possible for a while...

QUOTE (BohoWildChild @ Sep 18 2009, 03:39 PM) My ancestors could have left, gone into hiding and fought through attrition, but they did none of that. Therefore I reason that my ancestors earned the fate they received. And had they been saved at the last minute by some outside force, they wouldn't have treasured it. 'Rani In my case, I don't believe I am stronger because I am missing large amounts of relatives thanks to the holocaust. I view myself as wounded, I view my culture as mostly lost (who speaks Yiddish anymore?) and the ancestral homelands utterly colonized such as Galicia by peoples who were displaced by the Soviets to repopulate the areas. I don't have a longing to return to Europe to correct that historical crime, however, beyond preventing it from happening again. I do not even blame so much the locals who committed the crime due to the fact the children didn't do it. If nothing else, I view myself as injured by the whole thing; its a painful thing to think about. There's no benefit in the murder of relatives you've never met. To think it happens other places doesn't comfort me, rather, I find it to be incredibly depressing. In Europe, Poland was once a great kingdom which offered protection to those who sought refuge from nearly anywhere in Europe; that kingdom was exterminated partially because its policies and laws proved to make the kingdom impotent, but also because the Russians and Germans decided to exterminate it when they got the upper hand. I mean, I'd honestly like to think there's some way I got stronger off my lineage, that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, but I don't see that. Today there's fewer of my family than there was 100 years ago, and if Jews are a coherent people, there's fewer Jews today than 100 years ago. It'd be nice to see this as a sign of personal strength, but I do not. Rather, it just is, so I'd honestly like to forget as much of it as possible, while hoping it never happens again to others. Inevitably, it does, but that doesn't mean it should not be fought whenever possible. In the case of the Baltic and Eastern European peoples, I believe we do treasure the opportunity given to us by the USA. Tiny: The timing matters because it is just a coincidence, I don't think it was intentional. But the day is essentially no different in Polish history than September 11th is to us. If a power decided to give Iran weapons and it was announced September 11, that would be the same thing to us. Its a lack of caring about the sensitivity of others. For the Poles, its as if the system won't be built. They wanted it in their country, and that's what we agreed to. If its a "better system" or what not, it fails to give Poland an important concession we made: That we will go to war to defend Poland. This new system no longer comes with that guarantee.

QUOTE (omgitsjimmy @ Sep 18 2009, 05:22 AM) Firstly, The Invasion of Poland was a joint attack by the Soviets and Nazi Germany who were allied together. The Soviets weren't "intervening" because it wasn't an opportunist attack but a coordinated one. Secondly, The new Topol-M ICBM that Russia is using is designed to evade all current and planned anti-missile defense technologies. The patriot missiles in poland is just a useless money pit to defense companies. Its just useless saber rattling with Russia at the expense of US Taxpayers. Thirdly, The US is dependent on Russia's cooperation to service the International Space Station. Since the Space Shuttle is retiring, we will be even more dependent on Russia for rotating the ISS crew until the Ares rockets become operational. Russia and the US are dependent on each other and other participating nations to keep the ISS project alive. Instead of policing the world, we should promote multinational cooperation towards peaceful scientific goals. Yes and no; the Soviet attack was a coordinated one, but they didn't leave for 50 years except for when the Germans reigned between 1941-1944 (In some cases, they are still there). Considering the Soviet invasion of Poland in the 1920s, it was opportunism because Stalin could only gain the territories Trotsky fought for by collaborating with the Nazis who had as much respect for these people as he did (to conquer Poland without German support would have probably meant war with the west). Besides, I didn't see for the Nazis demanding Stalin attack Finland. Furthermore, the Soviet act was the one that ended Polish independence. If you know the Polish strategy for fighting the Germans, its a good bet Poland would've held out for a long time against the Germans, if not defeated them in the field eventually and invaded Germany itself, coordinated. The idea of Poland as a weak country (especially compared to Germany) has cultural hegemony, so the notion the Soviet Union defeated Poland (not Germany) is one the west kindly forgets. Poland, however, does not. Second, You're talking military; its not rattling the saber with Russia as much as it is soothing the paranoia of Eastern Europe. Most of these countries want the Russians out at all costs, so much they overwhelmingly sided with the Germans in 1941. The point here is they're so fanatically paranoid about the Russians that they had greeted the Nazis-who would kill them anyway-as liberators in most places (The German invasion of the USSR did not fail until the Germans invaded Russia. In Ukraine, Estonia, Belarus, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Moldova, they were overwhelmingly greeted as liberators until it became apparent in 1942 that the Germans were worse than the Russians). Even today, in countries as diverse as Croatia to Estonia, there is still glorification of people who fought alongside the Germans as national heroes, when it meant the destruction of their countries. That is how fanatical the anti-Russian pan-Slavism feeling is in these countries. As a Jew, it scares me that people would still support Nazis, but doesn't surprise me. As the singer of the Croatian band Thompson said when people complained he was a Nazi, "I don't have a problem with the Jews...I hate Serbs"-the sentiment is pretty disgusting, but it shows the extent people in these countries fear/hate the Russians or, in the case of Croatia, the allies of the Russians. The US is a force that would prevent these people from taking power. If an anti-Russian Nazi takes power also in Eastern Europe, it'd be a legitimate cause of Russian invasion. The US support to Eastern Europe is more political than military. I for one fear that people such as those who the band Thompson would support far more than I fear the Russians, personally. These were the types of people that overwhelmingly killed both the Jews as well as everyone else in their own countries during 1941-1944. Of course, if you subscribe to the beliefs that the only evil people during WWII were Germans and that all these people were Russians, I doubt you'd understand the point of this. Eastern European Nazis probably killed more Jews per capita than the Germans did in the holocaust. Third, the ISS isn't part of this. Even if the Russians threaten that, we could launch our own rockets.

QUOTE (BohoWildChild @ Sep 18 2009, 12:23 AM) I'm wondering why you feel betrayed....... Maybe I'm cynical, but I expected a turn around in the economy based on the fact that it always turns around with a new administration, some policy decisions I'd like, some I'd hate and pretty much more of the same under a different banner. I believe he does have integrity and I believe part of that is that he's reluctant to rile up the ranks in the House and Sentae with aggressive rhetoric. He's a diplomat at heart and that will work for him and against him, because really, if you're actually going to change things, sometimes you gotta raise a little hell. No president is going to do that. I'm just hoping that after all the dust of history settles, it turns out the work he did without mouthing off about it will turn out to have served the best interests of the country. I feel betrayed, because even though I didn't expect much, I expected an effort, to try and reward those who elected Obama. I didn't expect him to be able to turn around the economy. I feel most healthcare plans are deficient. I feel he won't balance the budget and doesn't care to. I feel that he won't support raising interest rates, even though I think that would be the right policy (it would reward savers, force banks to go under where the FDIC could step in, and let a lot of the bad leverage clear). It would bankrupt a lot of his monitary backers, and cause pain in the next year or two (picture 1982, but much worse), and cause negative effects worldwide (a lot of these countries exposed themselves and benefited off the recent bubbles that they blame America for, perhaps much more than most Americans). All these would be temporary and I think fixable once the economy is allowed to sink to a point where things drop to fair value. By not allowing the markets to tank, its basically guaranteed I'll never save enough money to buy a house, buy any stocks, participate in retirement plans. My retirement, in my view, is going to be screwed up, my living conditions lessened, mostly due to the fact unsustainable policies (mostly based off ever increasing P/E ratios, and government taxes worldwide the reward short term investments and no company loyalty) resembling a Ponzi scheme, pricing out my generation of getting into the investment pie, and even if we are someday rich enough, we'll never gain back the money we put in the market just by the market. The baby boomers get their healthcare benefits and had them their whole lives; many owned houses; many had kids, tax cuts. My generation will not be able to afford it unless there's a dramatic shift in government culture. Obama got my vote and the youth vote. I understand he can't change everything, but there's no audacity of audacity there at all. Even if he gets his public option, since I can only find part time or retail help, a lot of my friends can't do better...his public option won't help many of us. His policies don't help us save our money or invest. I mentioned below I'm thinking about moving out of America...this is why. Notice I mentioned "Had kids"-if I'm paying huge amounts to rent or mortgages, and with the escalating property taxes to go to schools (without improving education), and with the escalating costs of books and coleges...I doubt I'll ever even be able to afford to have kids and come close to maintaining my standard of living. So you can read that and take your pick at why I feel betrayed. I never voted for Bush, and I don't think he ever got the youth vote; Bush might've been a horrible president, but I don't feel betrayed by him. I don't expect Obama to fix everything, or anything, but I expected a cultural shift to try and address that the youth matter. By allowing the P/E ratios to lift above, say, 143 on the S&P 500 and not even be willing to call the SEC to investigate? That's why I feel betrayed. He's allowing my future to be a ponzi scheme.

QUOTE (tinyj316 @ Sep 18 2009, 12:44 AM) Also... why do we always have to stick our nose in the business of every other country in the world? We've been doing it for years! We had no business in Vietnam...we had no business in the first world war...we had no business in the second world war until the Japanese bombed us... we had no business in Korea... we had no business in Iraq the first time around... we had no business in Bosnia... we had no business in Iraq the second time around... We have a history of playing world police... and it costs us too much money with little to no thanks from the rest of the world... Its what we call a lose lose in the business world... Why do we have to go protect every other country that cries foul? I love my country. I think many others do. I've pondered recently the possibility of moving to Denmark to teach American English if the economy doesn't improve (the idea of moving away sort of is said by me out of complaint because I'd really like to stay here). See, that's the benefit to having friends around the world. I, as an American, can reasonably move throughout many lands and be in demand. Foreign countries buy our products-believe it or not, we're still No. 3 in terms of manufacturing in the world. Its not that we don't actually export, though industrial numbers are down; its that we don't consume enough domestic products and import a huge surplus. No one out there says "Look for the union label" or "Buy USA"-voluntary reasons to buy local and raise capital in a community. Yet, if you look overseas, people enjoy McDonald's and Britney Spears. Now, we might complain about the (lack of quality) in those products, but believe it or not, people in lands as diverse as India to Argentina love American culture and products. Its sort of like that Rammstein song, Amerika. Its true; people eat American style pizza around the globe, and listen to western music. Lindemann might say "This is not a love song" but still...no one's asking Lindemann to love it. This gives us a few advantages; it allows us to go to places and be liked (or to places and be hated). It allows us to trade with people. Maybe I'm being spoiled, but I think it is awesome that, while blueberries are out of season in the US, I can import them fresh from Argentina or Chile at a low price. Unlike angry people writing angry music, I think in most cases in most countries-including Germany-at the moment it is still a love song with America. Now the other day I was a local election inspector in my district. It was a Democratic-Only primary, as no other parties (including third) had primaries due to Westchester, NY being a one-party system. I was one of the nominal Republicans. The other guy who was a Republican had a different history than me. Both of us (The Republicans) voted for Obama, hated Bush, and were mad at the Republican congress. I'm only registered Republican anyway because I view it as more important to vote in the Republican Primary than the Democratic one as I am more likely to vote for the Democratic Candidate, I think it is important to get the best Republican possible, or "most tolerable" to try to make it a close race. Aside from that, I do believe in the Democratic Party's ideals, though I don't believe in the party whatsoever. Anyway, a large chunk of the conversation was about conditions back in Europe and how we both ended up in America. My ancestors lived in the Russian Empire and fled because we didn't want to fight for the tzar. He had a nasty habit of putting Jews on the front lines to get killed (along with Estonians, Latvians, Poles, Ukranians and Finns) while protecting the ethnically Russian soldiers. You see, Jews weren't allowed to actually live in Russia because of their religion and that they were somehow labeled as outsiders, even though there was a gigantic Jewish Empire 1000 years ago in Central Asia that expanded as far west as Kiev (When it got broken, many of the Khazars seemed to have converted, regardless of whether or not they were Jewish, to Islam). Russian Monarchists sort of had this view of Jews as not just people in affront to God's will back then (and we were the tzar's personal property), but also as the personal property of the tzar, to be used and disposed of to how he saw fit. Thus, that branch of my family fled to the US. If we could, we would have volunteered for the Kaiser and fought for the Germans, like many other people in the western part of the Russian Empire, but we just couldn't do it. So we ended up here. The only serious opposition to the tzar were the communists. When my great grandmother was 12, which my grandmother didn't talk about until recently, she was exiled from Latvia to Lithuania because, apparently, she was a communist. The communists had the only really serious want to grant Jews and other minorities (particularly protestants and catholics) emancipation from the tzar. She too fled to the US, probably go get away from her boyfriend, but we thought she was Lithuanian. Similar members of my family came from Belarussia and Romania. I don't consider myself one type of person (Jewish) with one type of background. I consider my family lineage to be quite diverse, thank you very much. In some cases before the Russians, we were literally in bed with Austrian Royalty, in other cases, wine makers in Smolesk. The reason I consider it so important the US police the world at times is that many of my relatives died in Europe that couldn't get out. True, it was before I was born. I don't hold much of a grudge at all against European states though (although I'm very suspicious of Europe). Some were held back because of quotas. Some because they simply had a cold when they crossed in and were sent back for being sick. US immigration policy in my view indirectly led to the deaths of millions it could have saved. So I have sympathy for the immigrant. But the US did not (and rather could not) intervene in the events of Eastern Europe which led to the deaths of millions of people from all backgrounds, be it German or Russian or anyone caught in the middle of their war and executions. The inspector I worked with was Estonian. Most Estonians don't believe Americans know of their little country along the Baltic (and in fact, most Americans don't know it exists). It is Lutheran. Unfortunately, they were a country too caught up in the holocaust and are often seen as one of the more evil ones. Its not that simple: The Russians had played Jews off against the Estonians for more than a century by this point, collecting their taxes, and moving them into the country; to the average Estonian, there was no difference between a Jew and a Russian (and as such, Estonians did not realize that they suffered from the same fate as the Jews in both the USSR and Russian Empires); as such, when promised liberation in exchange for collaboration with the Germans, countries like Estonia did the bidding of the Germans to an extreme. This occurred too in Lithuania, where my relatives also dwelled and were probably shot by Einstatzgruppen (it is likely that they would have been collaborators with the USSR in my opinion, as that was the best way to get protection for themselves against the looming German threat). The British and French stood by idly as both my ancestoral homeland and his homeland (he was born in Estonia, in fact) were ravaged by first Russian invasion, then German occupation followed by Germany's crushing of its independence, followed by Russian re-invasion. His family had a choice when he was a baby: Go to Sweden or fight for the Germans and move to Germany. Feeling they owed the Germans nothing, they went to Sweden, fearing that they'd be shot by the Russians upon invasion as the Russians weren't kind to former Soviet subjects who surrendered, or maybe even just dealt with, the Germans. In the end, of course, the French standing by proved fatal for France and the British lost their empire-the price for allowing strong powers who are psychotic to get out of hand. Both of us have similar backgrounds, though its funny because we both came from people who, in 1942, would've probably killed each other if we got the chance; we were united in the fact we were both in my opinion good people, who could talk about the way things should have been, and how America helped them become that for us. Most people in this country are refugees, and most people who call for our help generally do like us. If America had the capability of guaranteeing the neutrality of Europe, or if the UK and France honored their commitments to many nations, much slaughter could have been prevented. My dead relatives would still be alive, and there are few people in Eastern Europe, Russia or Germany who couldn't say the same thing. We did not have the power to do anything, but the UK/France did NOTHING to help anyone. In terms of the UK, they actively betrayed the Czech Republic, which could've held out for months along its frontier. Given the fact German tanks still broke down often, it is likely that if the Czechs stood up to the Germans, the Germans would not have broken through in 1938, and there would've been a coup that brought down Hitler's government. With Hitler out of the way, there'd have been no Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, and possibly, no holocaust. In any event, Germany would've been knocked out of the war and a united front could have been formed in collective security to defend itself against the USSR in 1940 should the USSR be aggressive again. Its true we can not defend everyone in the world. But this area of the world means a lot to millions of the US citizenry. Millions have lost relatives here, no matter what political party they supported during the war. Those who were refugees almost always-even if the Soviets honestly liberated them-feared the Soviets (and rightfully so). The reality is, we were involved in the Baltic States. We made promises. We built trade and alliances. We guaranteed their protection from aggression. It was difficult to find people who weren't Nazi who disliked us in most of those countries, even if some still had old hatreds come to the surface. They were being integrated as equals among the rest of their continent too, for the first time in some cases in hundreds of years. The whole point of this long, personal narrative though is to say: there are millions there thankful for our existence, even if there are millions that curse it. Most Americans think this country is a profound force for good. We don't want to think our politicians are intentionally evil; they make mistakes. Some are corrupt. Bad decisions are made. But the notion that people give us no credit? No benefit? Garbage. Supporting countries-being loyal-leads to loyal subjects who will die for this country if they could be in it. It leads to their ideas advancing our culture. It prevents us from becoming xenophobic and decadent. If countries are ungrateful for it, that's their right to be (after all, there are MANY stories in which the US was NOT benevolent and acted like a cruel power). But to say that we will shut our eyes to the rest of the world? Most of this country was founded by people fleeing their homelands or seeking a better opportunity. It could be religious minorities landing in Massachusetts, or Maryland providing a haven for Catholics...some of the settlement was beyond unforgivable (importation of slaves and participation in the trade), but the country was made up of refugees and people who wanted to seek out a new life. To say "Fuck the world" ignores who we are as a country, as a people, and ignores our view of history-which is important. No matter how bad or good the past may be, few people (even loudmouths) in this country I think are bad people who want to destroy the world. We want a world that expands on what we think was good in the past, or to correct the mistakes of the past. Given the fact a lot of my family was wiped out, I think its fair to say that celebrating the Soviet invasion of Poland with the US betrayal-its not just in my view wrong to do it on that day even if the policy was necessary. Its outright an embarrassment and humiliating. I've often complained about the behavior of Poland during WWII; for the most part, I don't hold a grudge against the country. I try to be neutral on Russia, though its hard for me to trust they won't go on a spree annexing all of Eastern Europe (especially after the fact Paleo-Conservative propagandists attempted to blame the war on Israel!) after the Russo-Georgian War. Nonetheless, Polish Nationalist concerns are real, and they don't trust Russia at all at the moment. We could've done this much much gentler instead of picking one of the worst possible days in the calendar to call things off. That's why I'm so angered by this policy, and in particular, by the date; Bush shouldn't have brought us there, but unilaterally pulling out on 9/17 is even worse in my opinion. You don't betray your friends. There. That is why I think it is our duty to "police the world" as you snobbishly call it. I simply call our duty the right to "Honor our obligations" to both our forefathers and also that we've made with our partners in treaty (we should seriously consider the obligations we say we'll make as a country, but once we make them, we should not break them)-we shouldn't go around the world thinking of monsters to destroy unless someone asks us to, we weigh in the information and see if we can do it (and most times, we simply won't be able to, nor should we even if we could). I think, even if you don't believe in a mission that the US has...I think anyone can say we should respect the agreements we've made whenever possible and not betray those who provide us markets for our production and people to contribute to our country. Its a question of possibly Nationalism-a sense of a community and to protect it-and loyalty. There's a reason why treason is punishable by death in the constitution. I have no respect for opinions that say Obama and Bush were embarrassments to most of the world that, when confronted with world anger towards Americans can only say "Fuck the world"-proving they don't actually give a damn about those countries anyway. If you say "Fuck the world"-please-don't complain when other people hate us.

QUOTE (TheScotsman @ Sep 17 2009, 11:41 PM) I am enjoying treating him, and his party with the same type distasteful comments, and lack of respect the dumbocraps have shown to bush 1, 2, or Regan. I sort of resent this; I don't think its anything to enjoy, nor do I think its a lack of respect in my case (as much as lack of trust to respect)...I don't bash Obama because I'm a Republican, and I didn't bash Bush because I was a Democrat. I'd love to have a president I didn't have to complain about. I seriously would. Bashing him gives me no pleasure. Its just a way of my venting my frustrations.

QUOTE (tinyj316 @ Sep 17 2009, 11:15 PM) So, I just found out my professors scheduled a trip to the mortuary on the 17th anniversary of the passing of my grandfather... they're idiots... I can't believe they sunk to a low like that... ........... sounds pretty stupid, huh? I think people are missing the point here. The equal to this would be if your grandfather was murdered, and on the 17th anniversary, your professor was making you celebrate his killer. Saying "Something happened" and "This happens on the same day" is a bit different than saying this: "On 9/17/39, Poland was KILLED by the USSR. On 9/17/09, The US says it will not defend reborn Poland from the Russians if they decide to murder it again, but informs Poland that 'It really doesn't mean offense.'" Of course, if you subscribe to an ideology that thinks loyalty of others is worthless, then why not celebrate his betrayal? Have fun doing this!