Loose Change

[Barnaby]

This is true.. Law enforcement agencies often do mock roundups on colleges, etc. Get them used to not be bothered when people say "I'm an American citizen, and I have rights!". Plenty of videos showing that.

Where is my tin foil hat damnit..

[johan]

Of all the 9/11 conspiracy videos, loose change has got to be the worst by far. Most of the points it tries to make are based on misleading or incorrect statements and in an attempt to shift the burden of proof, it is just "asking questions" instead of actually trying to form a coherent theory.

I was quite involved in this whole thing a few years ago (though on the side of logic and reason instead of foil hats and spooky music) and the official story checks out. If you have read any physics at all you can go to the JREF forums and re-check their calculations for yourself.
[quote name='Barnaby' timestamp='1293546400' post='492666']
Like, how is it that they find the passport of one of the "hijackers" at the crash site? I mean, how it is even remotely possible that a passport can survive that crash, if it was enough to not only take down a skysraper in the world record time of 45 minutes, but also destroyed the plane's black box?[/quote]

The passport thing wasn't a first. In the lockerbie crash of 1990-something they found an intact passport (or maybe it was a ticket, can't remember) on the site.

Also, referring to 45 as a record time is a bit misleading, there hasn't really been a comparable crash before (or after) in history.

Planes have two black boxes. All four from WTC were recovered eventually but one of the cvr (cockpit voice recorders) was destroyed. That is nothing unusual either, it does happen from time to time (for example on flight 93).

[quote name='Barnaby' timestamp='1293546400' post='492666']Or, how is it that the plane that hit the pentagon managed to knock down MULTIPLE parking light posts, and continue to fly into the pentagon, without spewing wreckage all over the lawn?[/quote]

There was wreckage on the lawn. [url="http://www.911review.com/errors/pentagon/nodebris.html"]http://www.911review...n/nodebris.html[/url]

As for the lamp posts, I don't really remember.

[Canon]

[quote name='Allstar' timestamp='1288557920' post='486937']
Saw this when it first came out. We all sat down and watched, read through all the reports we had, and then had a discussion at great lengths. Honestly this is one of the more far fetched movies out there. It is easy to take stabs in the dark at the government when you only have a 1/4 of the story. If you ever get the chance to see behind the scenes how the gov works or talk to someone who does. You will get a bigger laugh out of the conspiracy movies. I have seen reports and footage of all of the events mentioned in numerous post. People now-a-days don't want to hear the truth. I mean honestly there isn't a country in the world that doesn't have two or three terrorist organizations operating within their borders. I know that I can't change peoples minds, because there is so much information that I just am unable to share. So I will leave this in parting, if you are able to believe that your fellow Americans would ever kill a fellow innocent American to start a war, then I fear the worst for our country because we will surely fall. Watch 10 ways to Kill Bin Laden. We didn't need a war to do it, chances were better before.
[/quote]


Allstar hit the nail on the head.

I'm honestly surprised that this many people think that its the governments fault.

But there will always be people who think that everything is a conspiracy (The holocaust and moon landing anyone?) 9/11 is a tragedy, and a big one at that. Any significant event will always have it's fair share of conspiracy theories.

[Rani]

[quote name='Canon' timestamp='1294257477' post='493458']
[quote name='Allstar' timestamp='1288557920' post='486937']
Saw this when it first came out. We all sat down and watched, read through all the reports we had, and then had a discussion at great lengths. Honestly this is one of the more far fetched movies out there. It is easy to take stabs in the dark at the government when you only have a 1/4 of the story. If you ever get the chance to see behind the scenes how the gov works or talk to someone who does. You will get a bigger laugh out of the conspiracy movies. I have seen reports and footage of all of the events mentioned in numerous post. People now-a-days don't want to hear the truth. I mean honestly there isn't a country in the world that doesn't have two or three terrorist organizations operating within their borders. I know that I can't change peoples minds, because there is so much information that I just am unable to share. So I will leave this in parting, if you are able to believe that your fellow Americans would ever kill a fellow innocent American to start a war, then I fear the worst for our country because we will surely fall. Watch 10 ways to Kill Bin Laden. We didn't need a war to do it, chances were better before.
[/quote]


Allstar hit the nail on the head.

I'm honestly surprised that this many people think that its the governments fault.

But there will always be people who think that everything is a conspiracy (The holocaust and moon landing anyone?) 9/11 is a tragedy, and a big one at that. Any significant event will always have it's fair share of conspiracy theories.
[/quote]

Like I said before, I'm not ready to jump on the conspiracy bandwagon, but..................

I don't believe a government could ever get it together between all executive officers to pull something like this off without spilling information somewhere somehow along the line. They're just not that efficient. But where my wondering come into play, is that we have seen individual branches of the government do some pretty horrendous things without other branches being involved and then getting brought into it after the fact and being forced to become accomplices in the interest of not giving the general population a reason for uprising. So could our government have been behind it? Yes, a portion of it undoubtedly in my mind could have. Our government as a whole? Nah, just can't see that one.

'Rani

[Canon]

[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1294342177' post='493571']
[quote name='Canon' timestamp='1294257477' post='493458']
[quote name='Allstar' timestamp='1288557920' post='486937']
Saw this when it first came out. We all sat down and watched, read through all the reports we had, and then had a discussion at great lengths. Honestly this is one of the more far fetched movies out there. It is easy to take stabs in the dark at the government when you only have a 1/4 of the story. If you ever get the chance to see behind the scenes how the gov works or talk to someone who does. You will get a bigger laugh out of the conspiracy movies. I have seen reports and footage of all of the events mentioned in numerous post. People now-a-days don't want to hear the truth. I mean honestly there isn't a country in the world that doesn't have two or three terrorist organizations operating within their borders. I know that I can't change peoples minds, because there is so much information that I just am unable to share. So I will leave this in parting, if you are able to believe that your fellow Americans would ever kill a fellow innocent American to start a war, then I fear the worst for our country because we will surely fall. Watch 10 ways to Kill Bin Laden. We didn't need a war to do it, chances were better before.
[/quote]


Allstar hit the nail on the head.

I'm honestly surprised that this many people think that its the governments fault.

But there will always be people who think that everything is a conspiracy (The holocaust and moon landing anyone?) 9/11 is a tragedy, and a big one at that. Any significant event will always have it's fair share of conspiracy theories.
[/quote]

Like I said before, I'm not ready to jump on the conspiracy bandwagon, but..................

I don't believe a government could ever get it together between all executive officers to pull something like this off without spilling information somewhere somehow along the line. They're just not that efficient. But where my wondering come into play, is that we have seen individual branches of the government do some pretty horrendous things without other branches being involved and then getting brought into it after the fact and being forced to become accomplices in the interest of not giving the general population a reason for uprising. So could our government have been behind it? Yes, a portion of it undoubtedly in my mind could have. Our government as a whole? Nah, just can't see that one.

'Rani
[/quote]

It's easy to point fingers at "the government" but one thing people fail to realize is the government is made up of American Citizens. Think about this, you're working for (pick favorite conspiracy branch in the government) and you hate the government or just want to kill a bunch of people for whatever reason. How hard would it be to find a group of people that share your views and want to do the same thing within your branch? Next, how hard is it going to be to pull off something like 9/11 while working in said branch without being caught? It's much more likely that people outside of our government.


I'm in the Air Force and I have yet to meet someone that hates America and/or wants to kill a lot of people. How many people do you know in the US are actually happy about 9/11?

[Rani]

[quote name='Canon' timestamp='1294372481' post='493645']
[quote name='Rani' timestamp='1294342177' post='493571']
[quote name='Canon' timestamp='1294257477' post='493458']
[quote name='Allstar' timestamp='1288557920' post='486937']
Saw this when it first came out. We all sat down and watched, read through all the reports we had, and then had a discussion at great lengths. Honestly this is one of the more far fetched movies out there. It is easy to take stabs in the dark at the government when you only have a 1/4 of the story. If you ever get the chance to see behind the scenes how the gov works or talk to someone who does. You will get a bigger laugh out of the conspiracy movies. I have seen reports and footage of all of the events mentioned in numerous post. People now-a-days don't want to hear the truth. I mean honestly there isn't a country in the world that doesn't have two or three terrorist organizations operating within their borders. I know that I can't change peoples minds, because there is so much information that I just am unable to share. So I will leave this in parting, if you are able to believe that your fellow Americans would ever kill a fellow innocent American to start a war, then I fear the worst for our country because we will surely fall. Watch 10 ways to Kill Bin Laden. We didn't need a war to do it, chances were better before.
[/quote]


Allstar hit the nail on the head.

I'm honestly surprised that this many people think that its the governments fault.

But there will always be people who think that everything is a conspiracy (The holocaust and moon landing anyone?) 9/11 is a tragedy, and a big one at that. Any significant event will always have it's fair share of conspiracy theories.
[/quote]

Like I said before, I'm not ready to jump on the conspiracy bandwagon, but..................

I don't believe a government could ever get it together between all executive officers to pull something like this off without spilling information somewhere somehow along the line. They're just not that efficient. But where my wondering come into play, is that we have seen individual branches of the government do some pretty horrendous things without other branches being involved and then getting brought into it after the fact and being forced to become accomplices in the interest of not giving the general population a reason for uprising. So could our government have been behind it? Yes, a portion of it undoubtedly in my mind could have. Our government as a whole? Nah, just can't see that one.

'Rani
[/quote]

It's easy to point fingers at "the government" but one thing people fail to realize is the government is made up of American Citizens. Think about this, you're working for (pick favorite conspiracy branch in the government) and you hate the government or just want to kill a bunch of people for whatever reason. How hard would it be to find a group of people that share your views and want to do the same thing within your branch? Next, how hard is it going to be to pull off something like 9/11 while working in said branch without being caught? It's much more likely that people outside of our government.


I'm in the Air Force and I have yet to meet someone that hates America and/or wants to kill a lot of people. How many people do you know in the US are actually happy about 9/11?
[/quote]

Notice I said "could have". Didn't say "did". It is well within their capability. Doesn't necessarily mean that did, or ever would. But I'm Native American remember? I have first hand knowledge that the government as a whole is not something to be trusted. However, I believe that's more due to it's size and the inability for any hand to successfully watch what the other is doing. Not because of any inherent malicious intent on their part.

'Rani

EDIT: You're AF? I thought you were Corps...... A damn wing-wiper...... Why am I wasting my breath? (Just kidding.)

[GoldenFingerBl4ster99]

It's easy to say that it's too much of a scheme for the governments to pull off, but you have to understand that the people who benefit from these sorts of tragedies goes far beyond government officials. Multinational cooperations see opportunity in large scale disasters. Another point, is how easy it is to ruin someones credibility with the media. The media has also done a very good job of creating a very unattractive stereotype for someone who is dubbed a "conspiracy theorist", which I have no doubt was somewhat intentional. I would like to believe this conspiracy theory is garbage, but seriously, if you look at the pentagon photos. Commmmmmon, you have to be joking, one engine left, the rest disintegrated, yeah right. NO damage whatsoever on the building from where the wings were. That scenario is just too ridiculous for me to believe.