Hookah - Bad For You?

[clibinarius]

What are you talking about?

I dont know about the stats you saying but i do know that hookah still does produce carcinogens...unfortunately! lol but then again even BBQ produces carcinogens. So pretty much doesnt matter cause if you enjoy BBQ like everyone one else does in the whole world then might as well smoke hookah! mmmmm taste good

Look, there's new studies done on Nicotine and its addictive mechanism seems to be rather poorly understood (surprise surprise). There's many questions about cutting cigarettes, and the stop smoking alternative delivery form of nicotine systems seems to not be 100% effective.

The first question is the plant itself. Tobacco is very complex and contains many many substances.

However, many foods contain nicotine at substantially lower doses. Potatoes, for instance, are a theoretically very addictive cocktail containing chemicals such as valium and nicotine. Chocolate contains Theobromine, Caffeine and some stimulants close to amphetamine in structure. These are at low doses. Tobacco is rather unique in that it seems to contain a rather high amount of nicotine compared to other plants. But Nicotine isn't the only addictive substance, just the best known. There's two things known regarding cigarette addiction that isn't well explained-the real effects of combustion as opposed to vaporization (Cigarette smoke relies on combusting the tobacco, so it can sustain its own heat whereas hookah pipes require external energy). The second lesser cited idea stems from this: MAO Activity. What is known about CIGARETTE smokers is that they contain a much greater occupation of MAO-A and B. This has the effect of increasing blood pressure, but because it is delivered outside of the digestive tract, it is far less likely to cause the crises that conventional MAOI drugs cause (Emsam is only selective at lower doses, or approved doses). Furthermore, cigarettes might be reversable, which means that the MAO returns to normal after occupancy.

The mechanism for MAO occupation is NOT understood to my knowledge. It is NOT known whether or not hookah tobacco possesses similar qualities, but it is known that nicotine gum and patches do NOT have activity on MAO. Of course, combining a stimulant and MAO, aside from being dangerous (though in cigarettes it seems that those who would die from it probably have and have dropped out of the gene pool in the last hundred years or it never was that dangerous to begin with), is highly addictive. This is partially because with MAO-B occupation the effects of dopamine are sustained, and nicotine tends to raise them. As a general note, cigarettes are understood to be far more addictive with cocaine addicts, which is probably due to SERT/DAT blockage, which although different than MAOI can produce similar effects.

I would strongly advise smoking hookah in the presence of chocolate or coffee. A lot of people I know prefer these things-some haven't liked their hookah pipes until they were served their Arabic coffee that I know of. This is because coffee (not caffeine) has MAO activity, which in turn makes the smoke more addictive. As a general rule, coffee will make chain smoking worse (though not always).

I, for one, question how addictive pure nicotine genuinely is in the human model. No studies really have used pure nicotine to my knowledge. Nicotine is extremely toxic.

This aside, there are dangers to hookah smoking. The addictiveness might be there, as is the gateway. Its an attractive form of smoke, making it more desirable to others (I hate all other forms of consumption of nicotine personally). Its been linked to gum problems-and I suspect probably will cause dry mouth and teeth grinding in some. It raises the blood pressure. It might rebound, too. Don't fool yourself into thinking its not bad for you. It probably is. I just question if its worse for me than a hershey bar.

For full disclosure, I don't think it is. Edited September 28, 2008 by clibinarius

[erufiku]

clibinarius, merci beacoup for the informative post. I definitely agree that smoking hookah is not healthy, but then again so are most of the things that surround us. You can look at a chocolate bar, shrug, and say it's just food. Or, you can look at it from another perspective and realize that it causes cavities, elevation of sugar in the blood, and obesity if not eaten in moderation. The same goes for hookah.

I think that we're lacking scientific evidence to clearly state how bad hookah is for one's health. Take the famous '1 bowl of hookah = 200 cigarettes' in terms of smoke volume. Even if we assume that it's true, we still don't know how the two types of smoke are different in terms of present chemicals, so assuming that one bowl of mo'assel has the same adverse effects as smoking 200 cigarettes is just plain idiotic.

There have been many studies about cigarettes and the reason for why they are reliable is that there are less variables to deal with when conducting a study. One of the major factors is the temperature at which the tobacco burns when smoking a cigarette, which is virtually the same in any trial. However, for hookah the temperature is not exactly certain. The heat source is outside, and what's worse, it does not provide a constant temperature: ie., when you're taking a puff, the coal heats up, causing the temperature to rise. This is the reason why no sucessful alternative to hookah coal has been produced so far. Also, there is the fact that a hookah smoker will control the heat management which allows for smooth smoke, an action based on human judgement that is not likely to be simulated by the machines that have been used in conducting studies about hookah.

In my opinion the recent public backlash against hookah is a result of misinformation and stereotyping rather than a rational reaction to proven scientific fact. In Canada, hookah lounges remain open despite strict smoking bans, but are only able to do so by substituting tobacco-based mo'assel with the sugarcane-based alternative that contains no nicotine. At the same time, nothing is known about the adverse effects of vaporizing the so-called 'healthy' alternative; therefore the recent heealth activists may be doing more bad than good to the general public.

[Apets22]

What are you talking about?

I dont know about the stats you saying but i do know that hookah still does produce carcinogens...unfortunately! lol but then again even BBQ produces carcinogens. So pretty much doesnt matter cause if you enjoy BBQ like everyone one else does in the whole world then might as well smoke hookah! mmmmm taste good

Look, there's new studies done on Nicotine and its addictive mechanism seems to be rather poorly understood (surprise surprise). There's many questions about cutting cigarettes, and the stop smoking alternative delivery form of nicotine systems seems to not be 100% effective.

The first question is the plant itself. Tobacco is very complex and contains many many substances.

However, many foods contain nicotine at substantially lower doses. Potatoes, for instance, are a theoretically very addictive cocktail containing chemicals such as valium and nicotine. Chocolate contains Theobromine, Caffeine and some stimulants close to amphetamine in structure. These are at low doses. Tobacco is rather unique in that it seems to contain a rather high amount of nicotine compared to other plants. But Nicotine isn't the only addictive substance, just the best known. There's two things known regarding cigarette addiction that isn't well explained-the real effects of combustion as opposed to vaporization (Cigarette smoke relies on combusting the tobacco, so it can sustain its own heat whereas hookah pipes require external energy). The second lesser cited idea stems from this: MAO Activity. What is known about CIGARETTE smokers is that they contain a much greater occupation of MAO-A and B. This has the effect of increasing blood pressure, but because it is delivered outside of the digestive tract, it is far less likely to cause the crises that conventional MAOI drugs cause (Emsam is only selective at lower doses, or approved doses). Furthermore, cigarettes might be reversable, which means that the MAO returns to normal after occupancy.

The mechanism for MAO occupation is NOT understood to my knowledge. It is NOT known whether or not hookah tobacco possesses similar qualities, but it is known that nicotine gum and patches do NOT have activity on MAO. Of course, combining a stimulant and MAO, aside from being dangerous (though in cigarettes it seems that those who would die from it probably have and have dropped out of the gene pool in the last hundred years or it never was that dangerous to begin with), is highly addictive. This is partially because with MAO-B occupation the effects of dopamine are sustained, and nicotine tends to raise them. As a general note, cigarettes are understood to be far more addictive with cocaine addicts, which is probably due to SERT/DAT blockage, which although different than MAOI can produce similar effects.

I would strongly advise smoking hookah in the presence of chocolate or coffee. A lot of people I know prefer these things-some haven't liked their hookah pipes until they were served their Arabic coffee that I know of. This is because coffee (not caffeine) has MAO activity, which in turn makes the smoke more addictive. As a general rule, coffee will make chain smoking worse (though not always).

I, for one, question how addictive pure nicotine genuinely is in the human model. No studies really have used pure nicotine to my knowledge. Nicotine is extremely toxic.

This aside, there are dangers to hookah smoking. The addictiveness might be there, as is the gateway. Its an attractive form of smoke, making it more desirable to others (I hate all other forms of consumption of nicotine personally). Its been linked to gum problems-and I suspect probably will cause dry mouth and teeth grinding in some. It raises the blood pressure. It might rebound, too. Don't fool yourself into thinking its not bad for you. It probably is. I just question if its worse for me than a hershey bar.

For full disclosure, I don't think it is.

Good post. Id like to see youre sources though, more out of curiosity then anything else. Excuse my skepticisim, but Ive been taught to take everything with a grain of salt. Im quite the cynic.

[clibinarius]

http://biopsychiatry.com/maoi-smoke.htm
http://biopsychiatry.com/coffee-maoi.htm
http://deoxy.org/trypfaq.htm
http://www.finedarkchocolate.com/Chocolate...ve_Cocktail.asp
http://www.urop.uci.edu/SURP/sample_propos...edicine%205.pdf


These of course AREN'T the sources I've used per se. Biopsychiatry was definitely in mind with the abstracts. I've seen other studies, some I've seen with my own eyes such as the coffee + tobacco stuff. Although there is information on that if you search.

As far as the stuff with blood pressure, I don't have an abstract. That's just common sense with the properties of nicotine. People want to justify hookah smoking as "Not bad" for them. It is. Its just how bad is it? Bad as a night of drinking? Bad as a night of binge eating? Bad as staying in bed all day? Who knows.

Also Bupropion is a weak dopamine antagonist. It is also a nicotinic receptor antagonist. It also is very useful in helping smokers stop smoking at times, though it can itself create health problems. It is approved for this use in the US under the name Zyban.

[anathema]

The values of smoking hookah are greater than the supposed/proposed/suspected/theorized risks of smoking hookah. to me.

end story

[cemab4y]

"Safe Smoking" is like "Flaming snowballs". Neither one exists. There is no such thing as safe smoking. The fumes of a hookah contain tar, nicotine, and over 300 cancer-causing substances, and other compounds. I am not anti-smoking, I enjoy Hookah very much. But do not fool yourself into thinking hookah is safe.

[drabin]

are you all scientists. tje firt few posts this page i could stick with but damn these long ones lost me...

[dw914er]

my theory


everything in moderation. Even alcohol is good for you, until you start drinking alot. This can be applied to pretty much anything.


I like to smoke shisha. I don't do it all day, everyday, so I'm not really worried

[pegasus]

arnt most of the fun things to do bad 4 u??

[inino]

I played high school sports. i could smoke and play sports at the same time and not feel like my lungs were on fire. hookah is good for you. anyone that argues otherwise must be the antichrist.

[Canon]

theres alot of those out there today

[mustang_steve]

In short....you are inhaling smoke....that's never good.

As for it being any more or less dangerous...I'll leave that to the scientists and medical practitioners to debate. To me, everything on this earth short is capable of killing us (one can actually overdose on water, it's called Hyponatremia)...so choose how you want to live, but understand that one needs to live with the conseqences of their choices.

For me, smoking is one of those things I choose to do...I not only smoke Hookah, but have a cigar once a week as well. To me, the "healthy" thing to do is essential, but in excess makes life boring...so I have a few vices to keep things fun

[Vad3r]

Does anyone know how to slow the effects of the shisha affecting my lungs ? If I want to smoke like a chimney, will running for an hour every day keep my shit clear or will I still be affected ?

[Canon]

running is healthy for anyone...

smoking is unhealthy for anyone..

[Vad3r]

running is healthy for anyone...

smoking is unhealthy for anyone..

Well that was mighty helpful....

[NarghileNights]

no, hookah is not good for you, get over trying to convince yourself of that.

keep smokin away!

[Nadir666]

If anything, schools/colleges should educate kids about hookah and its potential dangers. People always hear about kids smoking cigarettes despite all the education afforded to them. Why not do the same for hookah? It is tobacco after all.

[HookahLoki]

Regardless of whether or not smoking hookah is bad for you, I'm still going to continue to smoke away. Maybe not all day, but 1-3 sessions per day... I used to be a cigarette smoker, and I can say from experience that the harsh smoke produced by them is deff not a good way to live. Once trying hookah, I immediately noticed that the smoke was not harsh, it tasted better, it smelled better, and it was more like a cooling effect, much more relaxing. I didn't find myself "craving" more shisha, I just wanted to smoke more because it was pleasing...

[Bye bye now have fun]

If anything, schools/colleges should educate kids about hookah and its potential dangers. People always hear about kids smoking cigarettes despite all the education afforded to them. Why not do the same for hookah? It is tobacco after all.

because hookah is something terrorist towelheads invented in order to corrupt the youth of this god fearing nation. at least that what id hear fox news say. personally i think that anyone that can set up a hookah can conclude that its not going to be as healthy as not smoking.

[ColibriDon]

Is hookah smoking bad for you? Probably. As bad as smoking cigarettes? No way.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I used to smoke cigs and when I discovered hookah, I stopped. Within a week, my throat felt better, I got winded less, my breath smelled a lot better and my car was very grateful. Now, that's enough evidence for me. But hell, I smoked cigarettes in spite of the health effects, I did it because I enjoyed it! What a novel concept.

If you enjoy smoking hookah then smoke away. Who cares about the health effects it may or may not have? We're all only here once and you might as well enjoy yourself while you're here. Nobody, I mean nobody lives forever. We all die. When it happens, it happens; accept it and enjoy yourself.

In short, live everyday like it's your last because it really could be. Live life and love it for what it is!

[infadel79]

Is it just me or does anyone else dislike the fact that hookah is becoming the "in" thing amongst people?

Oh...and I rate hookah isn't as bad as smoking is. The isn't proper research done and the research that has been done is done on people who smoke hookah and cigs

I don't really mind it becoming the in thing because fads come and go and if you're the hard-core type, you'll stay after it's gone. The bonus to the hookah aficionados is that with increased popularity, there normally comes an increase in availability of goods for the thing that's becoming popular, so there will probably be an influx higher quality stuff (as well as lower quality profiteering) with the growth in popularity. As well, there is a stigma attached to hookah smoking because it kinda looks foreign, and drug related to most people, with it becoming more in, it may grow in acceptance, and then just level off, just like most other things. So it doesn't bother me all that much. And I agree with your thing about not having enough research, there really isn't any... and people have been smoking pipes and hookahs for god knows how long, cigarettes are comparatively recent.

Research will be flawed no matter what, because there is always some sort of controlling interest that wants to see results one way or another. The only scientific study I saw said that moderate hookah smoking only shows negligible elevations in cancer causing antigens than in non-smokers who are exposed to toxic air and whatever crap we breathe in normally.

As for hookah being the in thing, I started because my fraternity brothers liked it, and I wanted to try something new. For me its become a social thing, and a sign of friendship and peace if I want to smoke hookah with you. Whether or not is popular is irrelevant for me, I enjoy the tranquility of smoking hookah with close friends and good music

i love the hookah i used to smoke cigs and because of it i became an inhaler dependent asthmatic i currently smoke hookah about 3 times a day and have a very physical job. i haven t had any asthma attacks or any problems breathing at all. so to any one who says hookah is bad for you is an idiot and i am living proof. to add if i am in a room or even outside with anyone smoking a cig my lungs feel like they are about to collapse. i love hookah

[Hippo_Master]

last time I smoked hookah, I climbed the side of a burning apartment and strangled a sinister dragon with my bare hands and rescued a family of 10.

SO... I can safely come to the conclusion that it is extremely good for me.

[tinyj316]

Hookahs are not good for you. Whenever you inhale something that isn't air (and sometimes the air itself is bad for you), its not good for your body.

Is it as bad for you as a cigarette? Not in my estimation. When you know what's going into your shisha (tobacco, honey/molasses, glycerin, fruit) compared to cigarettes (which only god and big tobacco executives know whats in them)... Shisha seems like a "safer" alternative.

Now, when it comes to coals... Natural coals are definitely better for you and your shisha IMO... The starter fluid that is soaked into QL coals is probably not a good thing to be breathing in (even if you start the coal and wait for it to be completely red and starting to ash before you put it on)...

There is no such thing as a safe tobacco product, unless you're putting wet leaves onto a bruise (the skin absorbs the juices and helps repair muscle bruising.)

[Dylank0010]

"Death smiles at us all. All a man can do is smile back." - Gladiator

[nat3r]

heres the deal

there have been no definitive studies linking hookah smoking to any kind of cancer

smoking is never good for the body so it should be avoided

however, light hookah smoking PROBABLY wont kill you

yes, hookah smokers inhale as much SMOKE as a pack of cigarettes contains

however, there have been no definitive studies saying that the same crap is in the smoke

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsc4r3I2Pgc

that video (which just had the audio removed because of fascist music companies) is an experimentation comparing the two. They are not trained scientists, and the amounts of tobaccos and cotton were not equal, however, i feel it is a good representation.

I, however, do not understand the carbon monoxide argument, can someone explain it for me?