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[quote name='mustafabey' timestamp='1311691145' post='517276']
My take on this Scrappy, is that doctors are more interested in promoting the drugs of Big Pharma rather than dealing with our health. My entire night stand is filled with bottles, 4 heart meds,cholesteral med, vitiman B 12, sleep med, anxiety med,prosac type depression med,prostate med, st6ool softener cause all these meds clog me up and allergy med cause I never had allergies before I started taking all these meds. My doctors refuse holistic and herbal remedies ans since I get my health care at the VA, I'm stuck. Recently,my PTSD kicked up and I mentioned it to my primary care doctor, I was prescribed zoloft and immediately was unable to fall asleep and began to have have suicidal thoughts. I am not the suicidal type, but felt as if some demon was in possession of my body and on a mission to destroy it. I looked up zoloft on the web and sure enough these were the side effects, I went to the ER and they gave me antibiotics. That night was one of the scariest nights of my long life. I prayed,meditated and found myself loading my guns. I called my lady and she got me to the ER. I committed myself and spend 6 days in VA pajamas and slippers. All that time every doctor and psychologist I saw refused to acknowledge that this incident might be due to zoloft. More worried about malpractice suits than my health. Its all apart of the greed that is tearing this nation and much of world apart, Just look at the Congress who want to cut social programs and protect the wealthy from fair contribution to our deficit incurred by illegal wars. Enough politics Scrappy, I advise your friend,if he or she can afford it, to follow the doctors advice( anti depressants do work) in the short run,but seek out a holistic healer for the long run,otherwise that person will be tied to the drug forever, Also anti depressants of the seratonin inhibitor family ( Prozac type meds) tend to loose their effectiveness over time and you have to deal with the russian roulette of finding a new one. I am now in therapy at the VA witha psychologist who is teaching me ways to deal with my PTSD without drugs. Life can be a series of overcoming demons,one by one in aspiritual quest towards unity with the Creator,how ever you may may view him/her. I wish you friend prayers for recovery.
[/quote]

[font="Georgia"][size="2"][color="#4b0082"]I have advised her to commit herself, if for nothing else so that the doctors can find a balance with her meds before she does something stupid again. I also advised her to clean up her diet, exercise, read, volunteer and fill her life with things she enjoys instead of eating crap junk food and sitting in front of the tv all day, feeling sorry for herself. I KNOW there are biochemical issues here but I also think in her case it is a case of learned coping skills and unhealthy habits.[/color][/size][/font] Edited by Scrappydoo
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I'm late to the topic, but I might be able to add some input as well. It depends on the medical assistance you get. I've seen so many doctors and psychiatrists it's pathetic. The ones I seem to get are pill happy, and condecending. I don't feel like I've received any real help from anybody. Here's a background about me. I was diagnosed with clinical depression in 1999. I was given Elevil, Prozac, and Welbutrin. Welbutrin worked for a while. 2 Years later, I took myself off of the meds, and I was fine for quite some time until one day, I became agoraphobic and couldn't leave my house to go to work. I had to sweat it out and keep moving, so I went back on wellbutrin. In 2002, I was hit by a car, which gave me a total of 3 slipped disks in my lower back (pedestrian vs car. I was the pedestrian in a crosswalk when the light was green for me to go). I was so drugged up on several painkillers I was failing all of my classes in college. Among the other painkillers I was on at the time, Hydrocodone and cyclobenzaprine just made the pain more pronounced, and caused me to feel lethargic and chiropractor visits became expensive, and all they did was make me hurt even more. Everything was hard to do. After failed attempts to get the right combination of what amount of those drugs to take (including Ibuprofen and Aleve), I took myself off of everything, and I took alternative measures(that could cost me my job at any moment) to get me through the semester. My job at the time gave me tendonitis in both wrists, which caused me to have to get cortizol shots in my elbows (which also hurt), so I kept excersising, and taking the new meds I acquired for that injury. Over the years, and many, many many painkillers later, I decided that I don't want to take any painkillers anymore due to the fear of liver failure. On occasion, I'll take an Ibuprofen for minor aches and pains, but for the most part, I just deal with the pain as it comes. I have an inversion machine I use for my back problems from time to time, and I stretch my wrists periodically. My injuries still give me grief (random numbness in my fingers when I type cause me to miss letters), and my back still hurts. I fear for the day when I need back, or hand surgery, which I'm desperately trying to avoid. I'm currently taking Wellbutrin again (as of May 2011) and it helps sometimes. I can only wish I could find a painkiller that actually does the job for me without making me feel like a big, lethargic, mass of extreme pain. Something non addicting would be much appreciated.

At this point, I don't have much faith in any of the medical professions. In my experience, it's all about money, and the doctors, psychiatrists don't give 2 sugar honey iced teas about their patients. The last thing I need is some arrogant prick, or bitch with money getting all high and mighty at me because I need legitimate help for my pain, and my depression, and I had the audacity to come to their office and ask for it. Apparently, I had the money to see them, so I might as well be treated like a patron instead of a piece of crap who might not "look" like they have money in the first place.

Okay, I'll stop. I'm getting mad.
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^^By the way, I was on Zoloft shortly before I put myself back on wellbutrin. I hated Zoloft, it made it really hard to focus on what I needed to do when I needed it most. The first time I was on Wellbutrin, I had one of those "lucid dreams" where I was walking home across a bridge, and I imagined myself climbing over the fence and dropping down head first as a train approached so it would smash me to bits. Needless to say, that's why I took myself off of wellbutrin the first time.
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[quote name='thatonethere' timestamp='1312330477' post='518388']
I'm late to the topic, but I might be able to add some input as well. It depends on the medical assistance you get. I've seen so many doctors and psychiatrists it's pathetic. The ones I seem to get are pill happy, and condecending. I don't feel like I've received any real help from anybody. Here's a background about me. I was diagnosed with clinical depression in 1999. I was given Elevil, Prozac, and Welbutrin. Welbutrin worked for a while. 2 Years later, I took myself off of the meds, and I was fine for quite some time until one day, I became agoraphobic and couldn't leave my house to go to work. I had to sweat it out and keep moving, so I went back on wellbutrin. In 2002, I was hit by a car, which gave me a total of 3 slipped disks in my lower back (pedestrian vs car. I was the pedestrian in a crosswalk when the light was green for me to go). I was so drugged up on several painkillers I was failing all of my classes in college. Among the other painkillers I was on at the time, Hydrocodone and cyclobenzaprine just made the pain more pronounced, and caused me to feel lethargic and chiropractor visits became expensive, and all they did was make me hurt even more. Everything was hard to do. After failed attempts to get the right combination of what amount of those drugs to take (including Ibuprofen and Aleve), I took myself off of everything, and I took alternative measures(that could cost me my job at any moment) to get me through the semester. My job at the time gave me tendonitis in both wrists, which caused me to have to get cortizol shots in my elbows (which also hurt), so I kept excersising, and taking the new meds I acquired for that injury. Over the years, and many, many many painkillers later, I decided that I don't want to take any painkillers anymore due to the fear of liver failure. On occasion, I'll take an Ibuprofen for minor aches and pains, but for the most part, I just deal with the pain as it comes. I have an inversion machine I use for my back problems from time to time, and I stretch my wrists periodically. My injuries still give me grief (random numbness in my fingers when I type cause me to miss letters), and my back still hurts. I fear for the day when I need back, or hand surgery, which I'm desperately trying to avoid. I'm currently taking Wellbutrin again (as of May 2011) and it helps sometimes. I can only wish I could find a painkiller that actually does the job for me without making me feel like a big, lethargic, mass of extreme pain. Something non addicting would be much appreciated.

At this point, I don't have much faith in any of the medical professions. In my experience, it's all about money, and the doctors, psychiatrists don't give 2 sugar honey iced teas about their patients. The last thing I need is some arrogant prick, or bitch with money getting all high and mighty at me because I need legitimate help for my pain, and my depression, and I had the audacity to come to their office and ask for it. Apparently, I had the money to see them, so I might as well be treated like a patron instead of a piece of crap who might not "look" like they have money in the first place.

Okay, I'll stop. I'm getting mad.
[/quote]

Thank you for taking the time to write this and I'm really sorry to hear of your struggles. I agree, it seems like they don't give even ONE sugar honey iced tea about their patients. My friend tells me things I wish she wouldn't, like she sits on the roof of tall buildings and talks herself out of jumping. That she goes up there with the intention of jumping and just sits there makes me think she needs to be hospitalized until her meds are stabilized but ....she has money, money is not a problem, this arabic bs of family reputation is a problem. LIke they'd rather she kill herself and call it an accident than be shamed into having a sister in the mental health ward. My husband got toxic hepatitis from pain meds when he was going thru chemo, so you obviously have to be careful! You certainly have the right to be angry, just don't let it eat you up!
Thanks again for your openness!
BJ
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[quote name='Scrappydoo' timestamp='1312332369' post='518393']

Thank you for taking the time to write this and I'm really sorry to hear of your struggles. I agree, it seems like they don't give even ONE sugar honey iced tea about their patients. My friend tells me things I wish she wouldn't, like she sits on the roof of tall buildings and talks herself out of jumping. That she goes up there with the intention of jumping and just sits there makes me think she needs to be hospitalized until her meds are stabilized but[b] ....she has money, money is not a problem, this arabic bs of family reputation is a problem. LIke they'd rather she kill herself and call it an accident than be shamed into having a sister in the mental health ward.[/b] My husband got toxic hepatitis from pain meds when he was going thru chemo, so you obviously have to be careful! You certainly have the right to be angry, just don't let it eat you up!
Thanks again for your openness!
BJ
[/quote]

Wow. That sort of thing is here in the states also. Many people are ashamed of the idea of being in the mental health ward. Some people see mental illness as "weakness", and I feel that those who say that might be harboring some "craziness" of their own and are afraid to admit it. That attitude definitely needs to stop. There is no shame in asking for help. It's the stigma of so called "craziness" that haunts us. Sorry to hear about your husband. That's very scary.
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[quote name='thatonethere' timestamp='1312333098' post='518394']
[quote name='Scrappydoo' timestamp='1312332369' post='518393']
Thank you for taking the time to write this and I'm really sorry to hear of your struggles. I agree, it seems like they don't give even ONE sugar honey iced tea about their patients. My friend tells me things I wish she wouldn't, like she sits on the roof of tall buildings and talks herself out of jumping. That she goes up there with the intention of jumping and just sits there makes me think she needs to be hospitalized until her meds are stabilized but[b] ....she has money, money is not a problem, this arabic bs of family reputation is a problem. LIke they'd rather she kill herself and call it an accident than be shamed into having a sister in the mental health ward.[/b] My husband got toxic hepatitis from pain meds when he was going thru chemo, so you obviously have to be careful! You certainly have the right to be angry, just don't let it eat you up!
Thanks again for your openness!
BJ
[/quote]

Wow. That sort of thing is here in the states also. Many people are ashamed of the idea of being in the mental health ward. Some people see mental illness as "weakness", and I feel that those who say that might be harboring some "craziness" of their own and are afraid to admit it. That attitude definitely needs to stop. There is no shame in asking for help. It's the stigma of so called "craziness" that haunts us. Sorry to hear about your husband. That's very scary.
[/quote]

It is and THAT is insane! I was trying to explain to her mother, if she had a cardiac condition or stomach ulcer, wouldn't you want her in the hospital until it is stabilized? Like talking to a wall. Yeah, waking up next to a yellow man with yellow eyes was pretty scary, ha! He looked like a wolf. He is thankfully back to his normal color now!
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  • 2 weeks later...
Like dave said above, I also have Tourettes's Syndrom. I have had it since I was 13. I have been on many medications throughout my lifetime. I am now currently on Orap which is a nueroleptic to help ease the Tics caused by TS. But on the case of ADHD I do think that some drs are writing scrips to easilly. They need to do more tests to make sure the kid actually has ADD or ADHD. I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was much younger, I cant remember exactly what age it was but I was quite young. But I am now able to control my ADHD without medication. Plus most of thre stimulant ADHD medication would exacerbate my tourettes and cause my tics to get much louder and much more frequent. I was only able to take non-stimulant medications due to my TS. Edited by thehookahguru
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  • 2 months later...
[quote name='Scrappydoo' timestamp='1310204356' post='515257']
SO, here's my question. Do you think we are better at recognizing mental health issues and more open about talking about it? Or do you think doctors are too quick to write off a scrip than deal with a problem? It seems like anymore, almost everyone I know is on some sort of mood stabilizer, are we becoming the Prozac nation for real? Isn't it just easier to pop a pill and not feel anything?
I appreciate candor, just have lots of time to talk to people and think while on summer break! [img]http://www.hookahforum.com/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif[/img]
[/quote]

I scanned most of the other comments, which seemed to hold some degree of truth in most.

I have nothing to do with mental health, although it was a favorite rotation of mine. If I didn't do anesthesia, I'd be in mental health. Fascinating.

Out of all the professions, I do think that of psychiatry and mental health are the furthest "behind". We've come along way from lobotomies, cold bathes, exorcisms and other spiritual treatments (I don't discredit even today) and mirrors. The mind is still the most difficult organ to understand. "Modern medicine" is still very very new and the things we practice today will, one day, be "outdated" and people will think back, "Wow, and to think they actually treated people this way!"

We suck at determining mental illness. Plain and simple. However, if you go to a mental health doctor, he will treat you as a mental patient. If you visit a medical doctor, he will treat you as a medical patient. If you visit a holistic doctor he will treat you in a spiritual/herbal/natural way. So on and so forth. We do not talk about much more than we used to - as a family. No one wants to let everyone know their loved one is "hearing things" - besides, a lot of it is genetic... what would that say about you? I think information is just more readily available to the public (think YouTube).

When you are referred, it's possible the referring physician will get a cut. When you are put on a pill that is being pushed by pharmaceuticals the company and the prescribing MD are getting a cut. Deals between private and public physicians are made so when they prescribe a pill they get a percentage and the maker of the pill get a percentage. It may not be the right pill for you, but everyone wants their cut. Healthcare is greedy and will only become worse as the current administration procede with their reform. The gravy train is quickly running out, but doctors, pharmaceutical reps, hospital CEO's, and everyone in between is wanting their piece of the pie. It's all a business.

Hope that helps. Probably not. The internet is anyone's most valuable tool. Beware, webMD can turn the common cold in to a life or death situation. Do your research - medical journals - the real boring stuff. Not the "how to" websites.
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I feel that doctors are way too quick to prescribe drugs. It's like every fucking kid has ADD. They are kids, they are going to be bad. Get over it, find more effective ways of controlling/parenting instead of doping them up. And the adults with the depression, get the fuck over it. It's true that some people have fucked up shit happen to them in their lives and can benefit from some sort of prescription, but these days everyone is depressed and upset. Grow up. Get over it. Take your ass to a third world country and then talk to me about being depressed. Jesus.
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[quote name='joelhookah' timestamp='1320679320' post='530567']
And the adults with the depression, get the fuck over it. It's true that some people have fucked up shit happen to them in their lives and can benefit from some sort of prescription, but these days everyone is depressed and upset. Grow up. Get over it. Take your ass to a third world country and then talk to me about being depressed. Jesus.
[/quote]

Wrong. You don't get it.
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[quote name='TheAnesthetist' timestamp='1320666937' post='530544']
[quote name='Scrappydoo' timestamp='1310204356' post='515257']
SO, here's my question. Do you think we are better at recognizing mental health issues and more open about talking about it? Or do you think doctors are too quick to write off a scrip than deal with a problem? It seems like anymore, almost everyone I know is on some sort of mood stabilizer, are we becoming the Prozac nation for real? Isn't it just easier to pop a pill and not feel anything?
I appreciate candor, just have lots of time to talk to people and think while on summer break! [img]http://www.hookahforum.com/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif[/img]
[/quote]

I scanned most of the other comments, which seemed to hold some degree of truth in most.

I have nothing to do with mental health, although it was a favorite rotation of mine. If I didn't do anesthesia, I'd be in mental health. Fascinating.

Out of all the professions, I do think that of psychiatry and mental health are the furthest "behind". We've come along way from lobotomies, cold bathes, exorcisms and other spiritual treatments (I don't discredit even today) and mirrors. The mind is still the most difficult organ to understand. "Modern medicine" is still very very new and the things we practice today will, one day, be "outdated" and people will think back, "Wow, and to think they actually treated people this way!"

We suck at determining mental illness. Plain and simple. However, if you go to a mental health doctor, he will treat you as a mental patient. If you visit a medical doctor, he will treat you as a medical patient. If you visit a holistic doctor he will treat you in a spiritual/herbal/natural way. So on and so forth. We do not talk about much more than we used to - as a family. No one wants to let everyone know their loved one is "hearing things" - besides, a lot of it is genetic... what would that say about you? I think information is just more readily available to the public (think YouTube).

When you are referred, it's possible the referring physician will get a cut. When you are put on a pill that is being pushed by pharmaceuticals the company and the prescribing MD are getting a cut. Deals between private and public physicians are made so when they prescribe a pill they get a percentage and the maker of the pill get a percentage. It may not be the right pill for you, but everyone wants their cut. Healthcare is greedy and will only become worse as the current administration procede with their reform. The gravy train is quickly running out, but doctors, pharmaceutical reps, hospital CEO's, and everyone in between is wanting their piece of the pie. It's all a business.

Hope that helps. Probably not. The internet is anyone's most valuable tool. Beware, webMD can turn the common cold in to a life or death situation. Do your research - medical journals - the real boring stuff. Not the "how to" websites.
[/quote]

Scrappy probably won't ever reply. She left us quite some time ago.

Good post, though.

[quote name='Dr. B' timestamp='1320702681' post='530630']
[quote name='joelhookah' timestamp='1320679320' post='530567']
And the adults with the depression, get the fuck over it. It's true that some people have fucked up shit happen to them in their lives and can benefit from some sort of prescription, but these days everyone is depressed and upset. Grow up. Get over it. Take your ass to a third world country and then talk to me about being depressed. Jesus.
[/quote]

Wrong. You don't get it.
[/quote]

Desmond is right- you don't get it. It's not that simple. Depression is a very complex thing (IMO).
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Maybe I don't get depression, but I do know about the ADD/ADHD thing and point blank it's over diagnosed. If depression is anything like it, I know for a fact it is super overdiagnosed and I know personally many people who are prescribed zanex and other pills people abuse for being "depressed" and having "anxiety". People rather medicate then deal these days.
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The problem is the very same compartmentalisation that TheAnesthetist describes; the notion that there is such a thing as a "mental health doctor" and that he/she is distinct from a "medical doctor" or a "holistic doctor" speaks volumes. Sure, there are a few people incorrectly labelled AD(H)D by cursory or incomplete assessments - but they pale into insignificance compared with the undiagnosed and the underdiagnosed. So first, let me deal with the question: do we over-diagnose?

Thirty odd years ago, I didn't manage to walk until I was almost 2. Nobody had a clue about developmental disorders, so they sent me for hip x-rays, confirmed I didn't have fused hips and said "well, he'll grow into it". Aged 6, I'd run my school out of maths and English books, but I couldn't ride a bike or walk a balance beam. Nobody batted an eyelid and that's not because my parents weren't paying attention; they were, and my mother was by profession a teacher of the blind. Aged 9, I was academically brilliant but socially and practically useless. I became withdrawn, depressed and suicidal before I was 10, but the GP was still cautious. I was 11 by the time they referred me first to behavioural specialists, then psychologists, then psychiatrists - all of whom stopped short of diagnosing a mental health condition or a developmental disorder, but diagnosed "emotional trauma" and tried SSRIs and cognitive behavioural therapy, neither of which helped. By age 14, my long-suffering parents had reached their limit and I went into care along with a Statement of Special Educational Needs, but still no diagnosis other than that I had "difficulties with processing visual information in timed situations". Eighteen months and four homes later, and still without any formal diagnosis, I was placed in a residential therapeutic community, at an astronomical cost to the local authority. This helped, but it addressed symptoms without getting to the root of the problem.

Fast forward through ten years of not really getting on at anything, not happy in any course I went on, any job I did (there were many), any social group I joined, with still no real explanation. Still unable to ride a bike, or drive a car, despite a couple of hundred hours of tuition, and I had no explanation, besides that I was smart at a few things and f**king hopeless at the rest. Then came the point that I began to study Asperger Syndrome, because a friend's son was diagnosed. Long story short, it fitted, and after an exceptionally thorough assessment - over the course of two months, including discussions with my parents and former partner, and a visit to my home - I was diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome myself. Needless to say, it would have been damned useful if I'd had that diagnosis twenty years sooner.

However, back to the rant about compartmentalisation. The local mental health team doesn't consider developmental disorders as part of their remit, so they're not interested unless and until that's been fully assessed. Meanwhile, the learning disabilities team doesn't consider it their remit unless the client's full-scale IQ is below 70 (mine is not). So, it falls instead to a psychology and challenging needs service, who to their credit diagnosed AS and identified (as had I) that AS is not the whole picture. But, they're not psychiatrists, so they've had to refer me back to the local mental health team, in order for that team to determine that they do not have a psychiatrist with suitable experience of autism spectrum disorders and need to refer me to a more specialist unit outside the local NHS trust, which requires an exceptional circumstances appeal for funding - and that's just to determine whether I have a mood disorder or a personality disorder in addition to AS. However, that doesn't describe the extent of my ongoing difficulties with motor skills (I've been typing this post for two hours now), so they've also got to find somewhere to refer me for an assessment for dyspraxia. Though they can see it as clear as crystal, it's not their remit to assess it, nor that of the psychiatrists, so it'll take another referral before I as an adult have something resembling a complete statement of the issues I face.

[u]It is this very compartmentalisation that leads general practitioners (and to some extent psychiatrists) to over-medicate[/u] or to mis-prescribe, because they often find themselves treating symptoms in a vacuum, with insufficient information and with their hands tied by their job titles. When I was a child, they were asked to look at behavioural problems, so they did. Nobody thought to consider them in context of developmental delay, motor skills, or social & communication issues. Then they were asked to treat depression, so they did - using SSRIs and amitryptaline - without seeing the hypomanic periods in between that would counterindicate. Then they were asked to assess fainting and blackouts, so they did - physiologically via ECGs and EEGs, without considering any neuropsychological factors. I don't think that depression is [b]over[/b]-diagnosed, I think all too often, it is scapegoated for more complex conditions that noone really knows whose job it might be to assess,

As an adult, the situation has not much improved, other than for the fact that I am blessed with a competent psychologist who understands the problems this causes and is doing everything she can to plug the cracks in the system. I suppose that makes me one of the lucky ones, though that means it's taking eighteen months to assess whether an anti-psychotic or other drug is wise in my situation. I don't think we're being hasty in terms of medication.

In closing... a note to the conservatives amongst you who will be wondering who's paying for all this mess. Yes, the taxpayer is funding all this mess, so you might like to know that [url="http://www.nao.org.uk/publications/0809/autism.aspx"]our National Audit Office has reported that specialist services for high-functioning autistic adults need to reach just 4% of the autistic population before they become cost-neutral.[/url] This is believable; undiagnosed, I myself have cost the local authority a small fortune, and those friends of mine with similar conditions who needlessly spent time at Her Majesty's pleasure have cost even more. The proper provision of diagnosis and support - psychiatric, psychotherapeutic, or both - pays for itself in the big picture when more disabled adults are net contributors to society. The problem is the damned compartmentalisation again, that an education authority is paid to teach but not to concern itself with mental health, a psychologist is paid to analyse the mind but as often as not to disregard the body that it comes in, a doctor is given sufficient appointment time to assess the symptoms you present but seldom the context in which you present them, etc. The world will be a better place when the American Psychiatric Association rips up its Diagnostic & Statistical Manual and begins to draw greater links between the developmental disorders (autism, dyslexia, dyscalculia, dyspraxia, AD(H)D, Tourette's) and epilepsy, bipolar affective disorder and schizophrenia. Co-occurrence is the norm, not the exception, and the sooner that we stop disconnecting our brains from our bodies in our approach to mental health (take that as you will), the better.
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