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f22a4bandit

Citizenship In The U.S.

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I have an interesting thought. The 14th amendment was passed in 1868, granting citizenship to people born or naturalized within the United States, as well as protecting the right to vote to male citizens. In 1920, the 19th Amendment was passed, saying that the right to vote shall not be denied based on account of sex (gender).

Now, if the 14th Amendment extended citizenship to all people born or naturalized within the United States, and voting is a right extended to citizens of the United States, why the need for the 19th Amendment in the first place?

Think of it this way. Women were not considered citizens of the United States when this country was first founded. All rights extended exclusively to males owning property, land etc., and later to just white males. The 14th amendment comes along and demolishes the race barrier for citizenship and voting.

Here's my main question: When were women granted citizenship during this process?

The 19th Amendment clearly states that the right of voting shall not be denied based on account of sex (gender), but says nothing about extending citizenship to women at all. It can be argued that citizenship was granted to women in the 14th Amendment, but the Supreme Court's decisions on the 14th Amendment and other cases of this matter have nothing to do with women's citizenship.

Women's organizations wanted the right to vote, and they were granted this thanks to the 19th Amendment. However, these same organizations didn't lobby for citizenship in the United States.

Envision the presidential election of 2012. Let's say a woman does win the nomination for their party, and goes on to the primary. Is she legally allowed to run for president?

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the 14th doesn't specify gender in the citizenship clause therefore it was given to everyone at the time...women included

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[quote name='PSU Smoker' date='09 March 2010 - 03:51 PM' timestamp='1268171508' post='456164']
the 14th doesn't specify gender in the citizenship clause therefore it was given to everyone at the time...women included
[/quote]

[font=Georgia,][size=2]"Section. 1. [b]All persons[/b] born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."[/size][/font]
[font=Georgia,][size=2]
[/size][/font]
[font=Georgia,][size=2]As PSU Smoker stated, there was no gender specified in the 14th Amendment.[/size][/font]

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[IMG]http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd155/Doctor_Girlfriend/Boxxy_Trollin.png[/IMG]

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[quote name='LZ22' date='09 March 2010 - 04:10 PM' timestamp='1268172607' post='456166']
[quote name='PSU Smoker' date='09 March 2010 - 03:51 PM' timestamp='1268171508' post='456164']
the 14th doesn't specify gender in the citizenship clause therefore it was given to everyone at the time...women included
[/quote]

[font="Georgia,"][size="2"]"Section. 1. [b]All persons[/b] born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."[/size][/font]
[font="Georgia,"] [/font]
[font="Georgia,"][size="2"]As PSU Smoker stated, there was no gender specified in the 14th Amendment.[/size][/font]
[/quote]

The 14th amdmt WAS gender specific. The problem with the constitution seems to be that everyone knows just enough to be dangerous, bet never seems to know the whole body. IMNHO "male citizen" would seemingly be, well, completely gender specific.

Read section 2.

Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such[u][b] male citizens[/b][/u] shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

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[quote name='TheScotsman' date='09 March 2010 - 10:40 PM' timestamp='1268203210' post='456289']
[quote name='LZ22' date='09 March 2010 - 04:10 PM' timestamp='1268172607' post='456166']
[quote name='PSU Smoker' date='09 March 2010 - 03:51 PM' timestamp='1268171508' post='456164']
the 14th doesn't specify gender in the citizenship clause therefore it was given to everyone at the time...women included
[/quote]

[font="Georgia,"][size="2"]"Section. 1. [b]All persons[/b] born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."[/size][/font]
[font="Georgia,"] [/font]
[font="Georgia,"][size="2"]As PSU Smoker stated, there was no gender specified in the 14th Amendment.[/size][/font]
[/quote]

The 14th amdmt WAS gender specific. The problem with the constitution seems to be that everyone knows just enough to be dangerous, bet never seems to know the whole body. IMNHO "male citizen" would seemingly be, well, completely gender specific.

Read section 2.

Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such[u][b] male citizens[/b][/u] shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.
[/quote]

This is exactly what the OP said in the first place..

'Rani

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I honestly don't understand your question based on the facts you presented.

14th amendment: granted citizenship to born or naturalized (not gender specific according to your post) + protecting males right to vote

19th amendment: protected right to vote for everyone (women included)

Generally it is considered that 1920 was the year women were granted the right to vote via the 19th amendment. So why the question?




According to the explicit guidelines in the constitution the ONLY requirements to be president are these:


- Natural born citizen (was a loophole that allowed naturalized citizens originally but was patched in 1979)

- 35 years of age

- needing to live in the US for at least 14 years before running for president.



With these being the only guidelines a woman could very well meet them

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[quote name='TheScotsman' date='10 March 2010 - 12:40 AM' timestamp='1268203210' post='456289']
[quote name='LZ22' date='09 March 2010 - 04:10 PM' timestamp='1268172607' post='456166']
[quote name='PSU Smoker' date='09 March 2010 - 03:51 PM' timestamp='1268171508' post='456164']
the 14th doesn't specify gender in the citizenship clause therefore it was given to everyone at the time...women included
[/quote]

[font="Georgia,"][size="2"]"Section. 1. [b]All persons[/b] born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."[/size][/font]
[font="Georgia,"] [/font]
[font="Georgia,"][size="2"]As PSU Smoker stated, there was no gender specified in the 14th Amendment.[/size][/font]
[/quote]

The 14th amdmt WAS gender specific. The problem with the constitution seems to be that everyone knows just enough to be dangerous, bet never seems to know the whole body. IMNHO "male citizen" would seemingly be, well, completely gender specific.

Read section 2.

Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such[u][b] male citizens[/b][/u] shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.
[/quote]

I meant there was no gender specified for citizenship. PSU stated there was no gender specified in the citizenship clause, and I responded by agreeing with PSU. The OP posed the question when females were granted citizenship, and I quoted section 1 of the 14th amendment because that is the citizenship clause without gender recognition. You referred to section 2 regarding voting, which is not what I was referring to.

Don't patronize if you don't bother to read the whole body of the discussion at hand yourself Edited by LZ22

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exactly...the 14th amendment has multiple sections, just because the voting section specifies males doesn't make the whole amendment male specific. Men and women were granted citizenship alike, however the right to vote was reserved specifically to male citizens at the time until the passing of the 19th amendment. Hence why if citizenship was for males only the word [b]male[/b] would have been used in the citizenship clause a well Edited by PSU Smoker

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[quote name='bigtoepfer' date='09 March 2010 - 06:55 PM' timestamp='1268178920' post='456191']
[img]http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd155/Doctor_Girlfriend/Boxxy_Trollin.png[/img]
[/quote]

Please, not in the serious discussion forum.


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id have to agree 100% with the trollin post

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