Do you believe in God?

[Ghaleon]

Why?  Why not?

[NERV]

No I do not. my friend is a major jesus freak and hes been trying to
convert me for years, we had plenty of arguments about but it ll built
up a bet, see, hes a lunatic, he think that he has healing hands, that
he can speak in tounges, and that he is a prophet. he said that he
could make god cure my cat's blind eye, he was given 3 months to pray,
he kept telling me that god told him that it was going to happen,
obviously it never did, the deal was if it did happen i would have to
acknowledge god, if it didnt then he would never bother me about it
again. so i dont believe in god, and if there is a god then it is one
who is unwilling to heal a blind cat with the bonus of another soul, so
its not a god i would want to follow

[Highpockets]

Agnostic. I'd like to believe in a higher power, there really is no way to know for sure though.

[Ghaleon]

I believe in God, but certainly not the one your talking about,
Nerv.  The argument that if God existed he'd care enough to heal
your cat and save your soul carries two implications that are not
consistent with the idea of an absolute God.

1)  It implies that we have control over God.  That, since I
can tell right from wrong, I can hold God bound to my moral standards.
If God did exist, and he were good,absolute and all that stuff, would
it not have to be the other way around?  Creation has no control
over its Creator.

2)  It implies the existence of a God that has no regard for
freedom.  If God were to make your cat see again, would you have
the choice of not believing in him?  You asked for a miracle,
irrefutable proof that God existed...yet what would be the purpose of
faith if you recieved that proof?  I'd rather worship a God that
allows me to be free than a God that forces me into submission.

Also,  how would a life of discipleship even be possible were you
to be that certain of God's existence?  If servitude is not
chosen, it has no moral merits.  That uncertainty that God may or
may not exist is nothing more than what allows you to be free. 
Since you are not certain, you have a choice.

[NERV]

well i meant that the god that my friend believes in isnt real, i didnt
say there is no god period, but the way he thinks of god, going around
granting miracles all the time, giving him healing powers, he also says
that as long as you believ ein jesus you can get into heaven no matter,
you could be a cruel mass murder but as long as you believe in jesus
you get into heaven no matter what. and its jesus only, you can believ
ein god, it doesnt matter, you have to believe in jesus. so according
to him, good people even those who believ ein god cant get into heaven.
so because of that his morals are lacking, he doesnt see any problem
with lying and cheating because he tihnks he will get into heaven no
matter what he does.

[Guest]

I thought I was a religious person until I saw Star Trek 5 - the final
frontier. God turned out to be jerk when he couldn't gain use of their
starship. bummer.

[King Mo]

in a word yes.
simple question for those who don't.
 
next time someone tells you "you will get what you deserve", or "what goes around comes around"
ask yourself, how the hell is that gonna happen, without a God to make it happen, whether in this life, or when you die.
otherwise, there is no guarantee anyone will get what he deserves, and nothing will ever go around or come around without spectacular coincidences. Life is not based on maths or probability. There has to be an absolute justice.
this isn't the only reason, but quite a simple one to think about. Remember, when you start to apply logic to God, and limit Him, then you will confuse yourself, as you are applying logic to the very Creator of logic.
I could say more, but not really bothered, after all, people should be free to practice what they believe in
 

[Mathazar]

There must be some sort of higher being that created everything, 
the sun, the moons,  the stars,  the planets,  the solar
system,  space,  man/woman, cats/dogs, air to breathe, 
aliens/ufo's, light/darkness,  fire.  Everything is too
perfect for their not to be some sort of creator.

Jesus Christ is a hoax,  it was a way for the Romans to gain
control of the masses by creating the Church of Jesus Christ.  I
mean it just doesn't make any sense.  If Jesus is the Son of
God,  then what happened to God?  What,  did he decide
that he had served enough time,  and decided to have a son, 
so that he could go on a LONG vacation?

Christianity REALLY pisses me off.  It was the Jews that wrote the
original bible, what the New Testament is based on.  All the
saints & prophets were Jewish.  Jesus was a Jew.  His
mother & father were Jews,  who came from a LONG line of
Jews.  So how is it then,  according to Christianity, 
that the Jews can't get into Heaven.  What about homosexuals who
believe in Christ,  are THEY going to Heaven,  according to
the Christian Bible?  What about Native Americans, 
Buddists,  Muslims,  everyone who doesn't believe in
Christ?  Are they all going to Heaven,  or do they go some
place else?  I was once told by a group of young college
Christians who were trying to convert other students that the Jews will
go to Heaven,  only they'll go thru a different door than
believers in Christ.  It's as if Christians are making-up rules
for their religion as they please,  as long as it suits their
primary goal,  to convert ALL civilization to THEIR belief, 
so they can "SAVE" their souls. 

What a crock of SH*T 

Save their souls from WHAT?  Believing in what they want to
believe in?  My next door neighbors when I was growing-up were a
Jewish family consisting of a Catholic Mother and a Jewish
father.  They were raising the kids Jewish,  but then
somewhere along the way the mother started to freak-out because she
thought her children would go to HELL unless she raised them Catholic.

I have news for you all.  According to the BIBLE,  we're ALL
brothers and sisters comprised of GOD'S SPIRIT.  I think it was
the Old Testament that said something to that effect.  At least
that's what I believe. 

I believe that God does not have the image of a man,  but that GOD
is the CREATOR!  What shape or form GOD takes in the spiritual
sense,  I have no real understanding of.  I DON'T believe in
Jesus Christ being the Son of God who just happened to be born 2000
years ago,  from the parents of Jews,  who won't allow Jews
into Heaven.  I don't believe in the Resurection of Christ. 
It's the BIGGEST LIE in recorded History!  And these Jesus freaks
who claim to be talking with God are all a bunch of self-delusioned
lunatics.

So anyway,  YES,  I do believe in God.  I just don't
believe in Christ being the Son of God or the Holy Ghost.  Where
our souls go when we die,  who knows.  But all I DO know is
that ALL physical organic life on this planet and in the Universe is
just TOO perfect for their not to have been some type of Creator or
Higher power for all life to have evolved from.  I don't claim to
know the answers to evolution,  but I KNOW beyond ANY SHADOW OF
DOUBT that Jesus Christ is NOT THE HOLY SAVIOR or SON OF GOD!!! 

[Mathazar]

By the way,  for whatever it's worth,  I apologise if I
offended any Christians out there.  I have a couple of best
friends who are devoted to Jesus Christ and are very much involved in
the Church and Christian Youth Groups,  and most of my friends are
Catholic.  I don't despise anyone for believing in what they
believe in,  it just pisses me off when people of other faiths are
told that their going straight to HELL unless they convert to
Christianity.  I've been told that by several Christians, 
and it REALLY gets to me when they try to shove their beliefs down my
throat.

So,  please accept my apology,  I get a little carried away on that subject sometimes. 

[Mathazar]

You know,  I gotta say,  I wish I hadn't written that stuff
up above because I feel pretty awful about it now.  Everyone has
as right to believe in what they choose to believe in,  and it's
not my place to criticize other's sacred beliefs.  I know people
take religion very seriously,  and I really stepped on some toes
by stating my agressions toward Christianity.  It's just that in
the past I've had some very unpleasant experiences with Baptist &
Born Again Christians and it's left a very bad impression on me about
Christianity.  I know I can't take back what I said,  but
once again,  I'd REALLY like to APOLOGISE for demeaning your
beliefs and your religion.

I sincerely hope that whomever I offended,  you'll accept my deepest apology 

[Ghaleon]

oops, forgot to log in.  That was me.
 &nbs p; -Ghaleon

[soupnazi]

 
  There was this time that I thought the Pentecostal had the
"BETTER LENS" but once I got my stien refilled , No SIR! I like looking
though my Glass stien filled with beer much better. The grape juice
just didn't seem right for me
 and the Sunday brunch waffer with the wine, is much taster then Welches Grape juice.

 

[Mathazar]

Ghaleon......I'm not well versed enough on either of the bibles to
really have made the comments I did.  I regret typing them. 
I should have just kept my comments and beliefs to myself.  Thanks
for adding your explanations.  I've never really been interested
in reading the Bible.  I do believe that there's a higher power
that created everything in the universe,  but I don't see that
spirit in the image of a human being.

In anycase,  thanks for setting me straight on the goodness of
Christianity.  Their are a lot of good people out there and a lot
of evil,  but there are militant fundamentalists in every religion.

Cheers Brother! 

[jamie_lib]

i think that there is a God, but not the same god as most other people. i think that god made this world the way it is, it couldnt just be like this, God isn't a person (thing) that needs to be prayed to, it is just a creator and a destroyer, he hold the key to the start and mabey the end to everything.
these are just my views about things, and respect all peoples other views.

[ghiggs]

[quote name='Ghaleon']I believe in God, but certainly not the one your talking about,
Nerv.  The argument that if God existed he'd care enough to heal
your cat and save your soul carries two implications that are not
consistent with the idea of an absolute God.

1)  It implies that we have control over God.  That, since I
can tell right from wrong, I can hold God bound to my moral standards.
If God did exist, and he were good,absolute and all that stuff, would
it not have to be the other way around?  Creation has no control
over its Creator.

2)  It implies the existence of a God that has no regard for
freedom.  If God were to make your cat see again, would you have
the choice of not believing in him?  You asked for a miracle,
irrefutable proof that God existed...yet what would be the purpose of
faith if you recieved that proof?  I'd rather worship a God that
allows me to be free than a God that forces me into submission.

Also,  how would a life of discipleship even be possible were you
to be that certain of God's existence?  If servitude is not
chosen, it has no moral merits.  That uncertainty that God may or
may not exist is nothing more than what allows you to be free. 
Since you are not certain, you have a choice.[/quote]

I know this is an old post, but I just read through it for the first
time and I think it's a pretty neat way of thinking. You always hear
people (myself included) say they don't believe in god because he
wasn't there to stop certain events, tragedies, etc.  Good imput.
Whatever keeps me thinking.

[NERV]

one question ive always had but never got an answer too, why are there
so many huge miracles in the bible, like the sun stopping, splitting an
ocean etc, but no huge miracles happen now?

[Ghaleon]

Maybe there are.  We live in a society that does not allow for the
possibility of miracles. When we hear of a child who is
miraculously saved from cancer, we assume that there must be a
scientific explanation.  When a man says that he was lifted out of
the way of an oncoming car, we say that he's a lunatic...how do we know
that these aren't miracles?

Also, Christ says that miracles are nt shown to those who have no
faith. Miracles do not exist to prove the existence of God
to anybody but rather to illustrate God's grace and mercy to the
faithful.  Just because we don't see miracles does not mean that
they never occur.

Furthermore, people have discarded the term miracle for many natural
phenomena.  The British used to think that the Northern lights
were miracles,  the same with eclipses. We live in a
society that has systematically destroyed any source of wonder that
humanity once had.

I know; a solar eclipse is not the splitting of an ocean...but I think
an answer to your question lies in observing the restrictions that our
society places on the religous lifstyle.  Probably not a
satisfactory answer, but something to think about.

[tuma al Zrai]

Allahu Ackbar (God is great, dieu est bon). I'm an Antiochian (eastern/Syrian) Orthodox. I don't take anything in the bible literally, thats impossiblly un-likely. I think that litteral interperations are dangerous, they pave the way for fundemantalism, hypocracy, zionism, all the not-so-nice things. I think what's written is more open to personal interperataions, no just dictated beliefs by an all-powerful central church. IE-God didn't create JUST man, he created Neanderthals and all those primitive primates first , then created one in his own image. There is another, more realistic view of creation further on in Genesis. He wrote everything on a giant cosmic blackboard and set it as a plan . Maybe that's just Arab mysticism, but it's why true Muslims are pacifist, killing messes up divine will.

[Ghaleon]

I'm not sure I see where your going with that.  Do you believe
that God does not perform Miracles; that he dosen't perform a certain
type of miracles;  or simply that the word 'miracle' is subject to
inerpretation?

I don't get how not believing in miracles (or those sorts of miracles)
is a correlative of being a non-literalist (i'm one myself).  Is
there anything fundamentally absurd about God fidgetting with our
universes space/time every now and then?

[tuma al Zrai]

There is nothing fundementally ubsurd about it ( omnipresence alows for some pretty cool stuff, not to mention the whole absolute power thing), but I do think it is improbable to have any significant event that messes up free will, or things like whole seas parting without a single historical referance. Alot of the most absurd things in the old testament (not really in the new) have been translated up to 5 times, and meaning and events become distorted. IE-the Red Sea- the Red wasn't parted, it was a reed lake (most probable) north of the red Sea, off the western shore of the Saini. And Pharoh being swallowed up; tht's probably for effect. I'm not saying any of the book is false, but the origional meaning was probably at least a little differant. Not to say that miracles don't exist (the very meaning of the word can be debated), but I do think it doesn't emply grandiose dispalys of Godly power, whole cities flattened, mass deaths, stuff like that.

[afrdzak]

I know this is somewhat an old thread, but I read through all of it and I thought I would add my opinion(s).
A little background on me first:  My parents, my birth are Shi'ite Muslim.  Although they aren't strong practitioners of the religion and they never imposed any of it on me.  I've gone to a Presbytarian Christian church for almost 2 years with my good friends, and I've gone to a more orthodox Christian church for about 1 year.  I've taken Religion 101 (Intro to Religion) at my school.  I have who are strong believers of judiasm, islamic and christian faiths and I always try to talk about their religion.  This by no means makes me an expert on religion, but it has helped me form my thoughts and opinions.
Although I'm not 100% on this yet, I'm pretty much Agnostic.  I believe in a  higher being, buuuut I don't believe in religion. I do agree with the spyglass point of view.  All monotheistic religions came from one family tree, and inevitably had it's one origin, Abraham and his wifey.  As generations passed, conflicting views arose creating different method of beliefs (religion).  For example, Shi'ite and Sunni Muslim.  This was created only because of a difference in opinion of who should be the next prophet.  Why all the different types of Christianity?  Because of conflicting interpretations of the Bible.  (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong).
I also believe that polytheistic religions use multiple Gods to explain the unexplainable (some would say miracles).  I see nothing wrong with that.  Humans, being as logical as we are, want to be able to quantify and explain EVERYTHING.  Can't explain it with the current knowledge of science and math?  It must've been a higher power!  Maybe... maybe not.  Back in the days, there wasn't much knowledge of math and science, so they used different Gods for different unexplainable events/things.
Why do I believe in a higher being? There ARE certain things that can't be explained by math and science.  And, I sadly admit, that it's a little bit out of fear.  You grow up hearing so much about religion and God, I can't help it but to wonder, what if there really is something up there.
I've got a question.  How does God explain the universe and aaaall the other planets?  Did any of the holy books talk about the universe?  Are we the only planet with humanoid life?  If no, would they believe in a God?  If yes, what a waste of space (pun intended).
chow

[slayman1]

Ive only got one thing to say guys,GOD IS SO GREAT,that he created the HOOKAH!!!
Now lets stop fighting over who's god is better and just be happy that we are living in this lifetime.Peace!!!

[MrWorm]

I consider myself an athiest. I admit, theres no way to know wether
there is a god, but I simply dont believe there is one and that our
creation is purely a scientific phenomon.  My parents also
consider themselves athiests, but we all participate in the Jewish
traditions of our other family.

My parents sent me to a Christian middle school which practiced 30
minutes of prayer every day. At that time I read the entire bible. They
gave us bibles - we never had to read them all but I was intrigued by
it. (By the way, I reccomend reading the bible. Not for religious
reasons, but as a piece of literature. It's quite interesting.) The
school didn't seem to respect students very much, and disagreeing with
a teacher on any subject always led to a trip to the office. While I
don't claim all Christian follow a chain of command beyond reason, my
personal experience with this very religious school led me to believe
it is still not an abnormality. On top of that, I still hear things
about Christian schools today acting similarly. My view on life is that
no one should ever be in a position of control over others - at least
not on a daily life basis, because one person can never represent the
views or more than himself. My experience with Christianity conflicts
with this.

Beyond one sect of Christianity and Judiasm, I have not had the
opportunity to interact with other religions up front. I might look
into them when I'm out of high school and college.

[Steviethepope]

I like Mathazar believe that there is a higher power that created everything. I do not believe the planets, the stars, the people were created by evolution. I am not saying that evolution does not exisit - you can clearly see things evolve around us everyday... but it is not possible for "matter" to simply appear out of no where. It had to be created by something.However, with the same point in mind... how can a "god" just exisit.... well that is why realistically we wont know the truth until the day we die... but for me it just makes more sense for a god to have existed rather then matter to have just appeared out of no where...That point especially makes more sense to me if you take in to thought that time really doesn't exisit - its just a measuring tool created by man.

[cypress]

Nonbeliever, read Genusis and you shall find out.