Let's Talk Tobacco Laws

[fai0607]

What are everyones' opinions on Obamacare's possible 50% surcharge on premiums for tobacco users?

 

How about the new notion for nicotine testing, and not employing anyone who uses a tobacco product due to some liabilty insurance? (Sorta akin to failing a drug test for marijuana if MMJ is legal. Anything enjoyed off-time getting restricted.)

 

Insurance costs rising in general? Do you believe it is unjust to group hookah users with other tobacco users?

 

Where do you think the future lies for hookah/tobacco as a whole? Nearly banned or heavily restricted, or sustained and maybe more lenient?

 

I'm starting to become dishearten and losing hope on the hookah hobby. With the stringent laws affecting tobacco, affecting hookah indirectly as well I do not see how things can loosen up. Especially with the public notion that "tobacco anything = terrible" and hookah is just "another way for Big Tobacco to get kids addicted", there is just no way with more and more people becoming anti-smoking to the point where false informatin is being spewed around. As soon as I see studies that include ANYTHING with "burning shisha" I question its validity.

 

I may study away for a semester in Calgary, and with its very recent laws there is no possible way for me to smoke. Hell, I shouldn't even say smoke, I should say vape. Only thing burning are the coals. I'm not addicted to hookah by any means and I can easily stop if I wanted to, but I don't want to. I enjoy the socializing with friends and the relaxation effect. But that's besides the point.

 

Australia I believe was the first country to post graphic images on every tobacco product. Funnily enough, that's where I will be living for 5 months in Spring 2015. International tobacco law I believe is as important as US law, especially since most of the shisha is coming out of the country (or so I think).

 

Know any specific statutes or law you wish to share or talk about? Let's discuss. These are just some questions and rants to get the ball rolling.

Edited November 19, 2013 by fai0607

[KnightHawk63]

Honestly, Obamacare will not make it past Obama himself as president. The next president will most likely repeal it, especially if it does not receive well, which it currently is not. Seeing as the website does not even work properly. We aren't going back in time anymore, we are realizing how limited we are when it comes to laws now. Gay marriage/rights, Abortion rights, Legalization, these are all main feats that are being brought across the nation because they only make sense in the big picture. The government was never established to control our lives, only to allow us the freedom to pursue the life that we want to have, within the bounds of reason. Tobacco bans will only affect it in a public setting. It is too widespread across the nation for it to be banned as a product, ever. This will be the same for Hookah, it is now reaching the United States with large popularity, I can only see this growing.  Tobacco laws that effect you and I are not nation wide, rather state and local government controlled. If you want to make an impact, then vote. But as I see it, public smoking should be a ban in restaurants and dining, unless the establishment is dedicated to smoking.

 

Also I have heard of nicotine testing in the workplace, but have yet to have a job that required one. None the less an actual drug test. That would be on an employee - employer basis on whether they test for anything. It is not federal or state law, unless you have a federal/state job. And as far as the Obamacare asking if you smoke or not? Why the hell would you even answer that seriously if you knew it raised your charges or risked being eligible for insurance. What are they going to do? Come to your house and give you a piss test?

[Cloud-Hookah]

Yeah, I expect Obama care to disappear as soon as the new president hits office, even if its a democrat. Obama now currently has a lower approval rating the Bush... So pretty hard to see anything sticking long term.

 

Insurance rates always go up if you admit to being a smoker or heavy drinker, so most always lie about it. I actually just had to get a physical done this week or they where going to double my rates.

 

As far as the smoking laws I do agree with the restaurant restrictions. I hate taking the family out and having the kids surrounded in smoke by the chain smokers. But as far as an actual nicotine test, I can't see that ever taking place.

[fai0607]

Honestly, Obamacare will not make it past Obama himself as president. The next president will most likely repeal it, especially if it does not receive well, which it currently is not. Seeing as the website does not even work properly. We aren't going back in time anymore, we are realizing how limited we are when it comes to laws now. Gay marriage/rights, Abortion rights, Legalization, these are all main feats that are being brought across the nation because they only make sense in the big picture. The government was never established to control our lives, only to allow us the freedom to pursue the life that we want to have, within the bounds of reason. Tobacco bans will only affect it in a public setting. It is too widespread across the nation for it to be banned as a product, ever. This will be the same for Hookah, it is now reaching the United States with large popularity, I can only see this growing.  Tobacco laws that effect you and I are not nation wide, rather state and local government controlled. If you want to make an impact, then vote. But as I see it, public smoking should be a ban in restaurants and dining, unless the establishment is dedicated to smoking.

 

Also I have heard of nicotine testing in the workplace, but have yet to have a job that required one. None the less an actual drug test. That would be on an employee - employer basis on whether they test for anything. It is not federal or state law, unless you have a federal/state job. And as far as the Obamacare asking if you smoke or not? Why the hell would you even answer that seriously if you knew it raised your charges or risked being eligible for insurance. What are they going to do? Come to your house and give you a piss test?

Not what I meant, but I have heard stories of them requiring a piss test (at least for life insurance). The point I was getting at is how BS it is if they involved shisha by comparing the dangers to cigarettes when there's no contest. But that's besides the point. Also, I do agree with public smoking bans. Kids and non-smokers should not have to be exposed that. However, in NY they literally banned establishments that were meant for smoking lol which I think is total BS.

 

Those laws are sensible otherwise, but I believe it will continue to be heavily taxed, if not as bad as Australian and Canadian taxes to the point where it wouldn't even be worth buying it.

 

Yeah, I expect Obama care to disappear as soon as the new president hits office, even if its a democrat. Obama now currently has a lower approval rating the Bush... So pretty hard to see anything sticking long term.

 

Insurance rates always go up if you admit to being a smoker or heavy drinker, so most always lie about it. I actually just had to get a physical done this week or they where going to double my rates.

 

As far as the smoking laws I do agree with the restaurant restrictions. I hate taking the family out and having the kids surrounded in smoke by the chain smokers. But as far as an actual nicotine test, I can't see that ever taking place.

It already is. I know for a fact at health care companies but that's obvious. I'm not sure what other employers do that, because I've only heard of one story where an unnamed employer refused to employ any tobacco-product user.

 

I'm just really peeved that shisha would be demonized as such but I'm starting to get over it.

[Rani]

I don't think the ACA will disappear, at least not repealed but will probably be overwritten.  Too many people actually like having everyone have health insurance for it to completely go away, so I fully expect to see a new and improved version sometime in the first term of the next president, who will of course, take ALL the credit.  About nicotine testing......... You know, if you smoke weed, you know to abstain for at least 45 days prior to going for a employment drug test, etc.  The same thing will happen with nicotine assuming it even goes that far.  As for giving it up, or admitting to use......... Not going to happen.  Fuck 'em.  Our entire government and it's laws are completely out of control.  Lie to them whenever possible just to fuck up their data gathering if nothing else.  The only people you really owe truth to are yourselves and your loved ones.

 

'Rani

[KnightHawk63]

I don't think the ACA will disappear, at least not repealed but will probably be overwritten.  Too many people actually like having everyone have health insurance for it to completely go away, so I fully expect to see a new and improved version sometime in the first term of the next president, who will of course, take ALL the credit.  About nicotine testing......... You know, if you smoke weed, you know to abstain for at least 45 days prior to going for a employment drug test, etc.  The same thing will happen with nicotine assuming it even goes that far.  As for giving it up, or admitting to use......... Not going to happen.  Fuck 'em.  Our entire government and it's laws are completely out of control.  Lie to them whenever possible just to fuck up their data gathering if nothing else.  The only people you really owe truth to are yourselves and your loved ones.

 

'Rani

Couldn't agree more Rani.

[Pavo21]

obama care is a fail...duh wont work not in our nation to many money hungry corps and people along with our "freedom" people will rebel.

 

Also idk why but i ALWAYS look forward to ranis posts on everything lol i always scroll till i find it haha

[Chreees]

That's cause she's an insightful woman with a lot of common sense. :) As for the ACA, or Obamacare (my boss seriously thinks the real name is Obamacare), I think it's an effort in the right direction of where we should be headed. Is it perfect? No, not close. They have a lot of kinks to work out. But if my history serves me correctly, so has every other government program of this caliber or close has had a rough rollout. Medicare, Medicare Part D, etc. Just look them up. My point is, it's a start. Gotta start somewhere. I understand most of the pros and cons of it because I have been fact checking all the BS my coworkers spew about it. But some of that BS they spew turns out to be actually truth. There are flaws in the law, such as people not being allowed to keep their current plan like they were promised. Let them pay more for less actual coverage if they want to. Who cares? As long as they benefit the new law by having insurance. The ones who choose to check out the ACA will do so and find it will save them money in the long run. MOST people. I'm talking about the ones who are low middle class and under, if you can even consider those folks in the middle class bracket (middle class is shrinking in this country). Anyway, while I know it's not perfect, it's one of the few things I commend Obama and Democrats on. We NEEDED to somehow take control and change the ridiculous healthcare insurance in this country. $30 for ONE Tylenol at the hospital just so that everyone gets a cut? Crazy. I know I'll get hell for commending Obama on the ACA, but I only do so because the right has chosen to simply be obstructionists, instead of being smart and coming up with something better.

[Rani]

You guys are gonna make me blush........... Thank you.

 

I don't think the ACA is a failure.  But I do think it will take a decade, maybe more, to realize what a success it is, or was, because I still think the next president is going to modify it and take all the credit.  Before making a judgement, remember IT'S BRAND NEW.  It's not only brand new for you and I and every other individual, it's new for the health insurance industry, doctors, hospitals, etc.  It's a new set of rules they haven't worked with before, so until they get those rules down and working within them, they're going to be all over the place.  Some of the complaints are justified, however, where the blame is being leveled is not.  People are not applying simple logic, they just want to blame.  For example:

 

Plans being cancelled........ Congress and the President were correct when they said you could keep your plan.  The law provides that all plans were automatically grandfathered indefinitely UP UNTIL THEY TIME THEY MAKE A SUBSTANTIAL CHANGE TO THE POLICY, at which time it had to conform to the new legal requirements.  So insurance companies immediately made substantial changes to the policies so they could cancel them and use it an opportunity to lure customers into much more expensive policies.  Bad?  Yes.  The fault of the government and the ACA?  No.  You can lay the blame squarely on the insurance companies for a new method of price gouging.  Not that it should surprise anybody since premiums have actually tripled in the last couple decades, averaging a 40% increase every single year.

 

People aren't signing up...........  As of this morning, nearly 1.5 million have signed up on the federal exchange alone.  Don't forget many states have their own exchanges like California, and many others have combined exchanges with other states.  Those figures aren't part of the 1.5 million being reported as signed up so far.  Secondly, nobody is going to be fined until they file their income taxes for 2014.  Meaning not until April of 2015.  So people are going to be putting it off.  Just like they put everything else off.

 

It's much more expensive than they said it would be.  That will, I think change.  Remember this is new for the insurance companies as well.  They're out in left field and they're going to pad their profits until they have to bring them down by the end of 2014.  By the end of 2014 they are limited to a 20% profit margin, with 80% having to go back into your health care.  Right now they have zero historical data on which to determine what they should be charging.  Any overages will likely be rebated back to the customer in 2015, or they'll put it into new policies, etc.  They just have to reinvest everything over 20% by the end of 2014.  

 

Higher deductible.  Yep.  However, most people don't really understand how deductibles work.  If you have a $10,000 deductible, and you go to the doctor with a $40 co-pay, you have $9,960 left on your deductible.  If you're prescribed $60 of medicine, now you have $9,900 left on your deductible.  Every penny you spend on health care is applied to the deductible, so it goes down and lot faster than you think it does.  And there's the obvious.   Did you know 85% of all bankruptcy filings in the United States are due to an unexpected medical emergency?  Yeah, scary isn't it that you're only one car solid accident away from bankruptcy.  And you also have to consider actual costs of any treatment.  A broken arm is going for over $20,000 these days.  Do you want to pay $20,000 or $10,000 even if you have to use all of your deductible?  

 

And one of the biggest complaints I hear is that now "we" have to pay for "them" to get subsidized health care.  Well, we've always been paying for it.  Many times over.  People think if someone doesn't have health insurance, ends up with that broken arm, the hospital takes their information and sets up a payment program.  That would be true if the patient were honest and going under their own name for treatment.  One of the biggest uses of identity theft is medical treatment.  I know someone who got a bypass on someone else's identity!  Yeah, more than a quarter million dollars in charges they will never pay a dime for because hospitals don't fingerprint people before treating them.  And who pays the hospital so they can stay open and in business?  We do.  We always did.

 

Lastly......It's going to ruin our great health care system.........Uh, we rank 37th in the world in health care.  CUBA RANKS HIGHER THAN WE DO! So does Costa Rica and a few other "third world" countries.  And some people think that's good enough???? Personally I don't think so.  The best health care in the world, bar none, is offered in France.  France has the universal health care system we really want.  Just like the SDI that's taken out of your paycheck, they take a small amount that covers 70% of your health care expenses.  You can pay the remaining 30% out of pocket if you choose, or you can (free market here guys) buy a supplemental policy to cover the 30%.  Basically it's like Medicare for everyone, complete with a Part D supplemental policy. So everybody gets coverage, and health care insurance companies are still in business, making profits.   I have no doubt we WILL get there, but we had to take the first step first.

 

Now, the ACA is NOT by any means the best thing since sliced bread.  We need true Universal Health Care.just like France, but it's going to take a while for them to move to it.  Good ol' Reagan, may everybody travel to California just to spit on his grave, totally fucked up the American citizen by making corporations and profits more important than citizens.  Even HE called it voodoo economics!  And let's not forget he died of Alzheimer's..... Which we now know rears it's ugly head many years before it gets to the point of a diagnosis.  I prefer to believe he was already heading towards dementia when he fucked us over.  Otherwise I'd have to face the fact that it was intentional.  For everyone who followed him though, it was either blind stupidity or malice, because we've been losing our rights and privileges every since.  Which is why I firmly and fully support what I call passive anarchy.  Violent overthrown of the government would only get a whole lot of innocent citizens killed.  But how do you boil a live frog?  Put it in cold water and slowly turn up the heat.  By the time he realizes he's in hot water, he's toast.  That's what we need to do to our government.  Passively resist at every single opportunity.  Otherwise we might as well just line up for the recycling plant.

 

'Rani

[Chreees]

You guys are gonna make me blush........... Thank you.

 

I don't think the ACA is a failure.  But I do think it will take a decade, maybe more, to realize what a success it is, or was, because I still think the next president is going to modify it and take all the credit.  Before making a judgement, remember IT'S BRAND NEW.  It's not only brand new for you and I and every other individual, it's new for the health insurance industry, doctors, hospitals, etc.  It's a new set of rules they haven't worked with before, so until they get those rules down and working within them, they're going to be all over the place.  Some of the complaints are justified, however, where the blame is being leveled is not.  People are not applying simple logic, they just want to blame.  For example:

 

Plans being cancelled........ Congress and the President were correct when they said you could keep your plan.  The law provides that all plans were automatically grandfathered indefinitely UP UNTIL THEY TIME THEY MAKE A SUBSTANTIAL CHANGE TO THE POLICY, at which time it had to conform to the new legal requirements.  So insurance companies immediately made substantial changes to the policies so they could cancel them and use it an opportunity to lure customers into much more expensive policies.  Bad?  Yes.  The fault of the government and the ACA?  No.  You can lay the blame squarely on the insurance companies for a new method of price gouging.  Not that it should surprise anybody since premiums have actually tripled in the last couple decades, averaging a 40% increase every single year.

 

People aren't signing up...........  As of this morning, nearly 1.5 million have signed up on the federal exchange alone.  Don't forget many states have their own exchanges like California, and many others have combined exchanges with other states.  Those figures aren't part of the 1.5 million being reported as signed up so far.  Secondly, nobody is going to be fined until they file their income taxes for 2014.  Meaning not until April of 2015.  So people are going to be putting it off.  Just like they put everything else off.

 

It's much more expensive than they said it would be.  That will, I think change.  Remember this is new for the insurance companies as well.  They're out in left field and they're going to pad their profits until they have to bring them down by the end of 2014.  By the end of 2014 they are limited to a 20% profit margin, with 80% having to go back into your health care.  Right now they have zero historical data on which to determine what they should be charging.  Any overages will likely be rebated back to the customer in 2015, or they'll put it into new policies, etc.  They just have to reinvest everything over 20% by the end of 2014.  

 

Higher deductible.  Yep.  However, most people don't really understand how deductibles work.  If you have a $10,000 deductible, and you go to the doctor with a $40 co-pay, you have $9,960 left on your deductible.  If you're prescribed $60 of medicine, now you have $9,900 left on your deductible.  Every penny you spend on health care is applied to the deductible, so it goes down and lot faster than you think it does.  And there's the obvious.   Did you know 85% of all bankruptcy filings in the United States are due to an unexpected medical emergency?  Yeah, scary isn't it that you're only one car solid accident away from bankruptcy.  And you also have to consider actual costs of any treatment.  A broken arm is going for over $20,000 these days.  Do you want to pay $20,000 or $10,000 even if you have to use all of your deductible?  

 

And one of the biggest complaints I hear is that now "we" have to pay for "them" to get subsidized health care.  Well, we've always been paying for it.  Many times over.  People think if someone doesn't have health insurance, ends up with that broken arm, the hospital takes their information and sets up a payment program.  That would be true if the patient were honest and going under their own name for treatment.  One of the biggest uses of identity theft is medical treatment.  I know someone who got a bypass on someone else's identity!  Yeah, more than a quarter million dollars in charges they will never pay a dime for because hospitals don't fingerprint people before treating them.  And who pays the hospital so they can stay open and in business?  We do.  We always did.

 

Lastly......It's going to ruin our great health care system.........Uh, we rank 37th in the world in health care.  CUBA RANKS HIGHER THAN WE DO! So does Costa Rica and a few other "third world" countries.  And some people think that's good enough???? Personally I don't think so.  The best health care in the world, bar none, is offered in France.  France has the universal health care system we really want.  Just like the SDI that's taken out of your paycheck, they take a small amount that covers 70% of your health care expenses.  You can pay the remaining 30% out of pocket if you choose, or you can (free market here guys) buy a supplemental policy to cover the 30%.  Basically it's like Medicare for everyone, complete with a Part D supplemental policy. So everybody gets coverage, and health care insurance companies are still in business, making profits.   I have no doubt we WILL get there, but we had to take the first step first.

 

Now, the ACA is NOT by any means the best thing since sliced bread.  We need true Universal Health Care.just like France, but it's going to take a while for them to move to it.  Good ol' Reagan, may everybody travel to California just to spit on his grave, totally fucked up the American citizen by making corporations and profits more important than citizens.  Even HE called it voodoo economics!  And let's not forget he died of Alzheimer's..... Which we now know rears it's ugly head many years before it gets to the point of a diagnosis.  I prefer to believe he was already heading towards dementia when he fucked us over.  Otherwise I'd have to face the fact that it was intentional.  For everyone who followed him though, it was either blind stupidity or malice, because we've been losing our rights and privileges every since.  Which is why I firmly and fully support what I call passive anarchy.  Violent overthrown of the government would only get a whole lot of innocent citizens killed.  But how do you boil a live frog?  Put it in cold water and slowly turn up the heat.  By the time he realizes he's in hot water, he's toast.  That's what we need to do to our government.  Passively resist at every single opportunity.  Otherwise we might as well just line up for the recycling plant.

 

'Rani

 

Well said, Rani. You made some very interesting points and didn't disappoint, as always. ;)

[vendetta_revived]

You guys are gonna make me blush........... Thank you.

 

I don't think the ACA is a failure.  But I do think it will take a decade, maybe more, to realize what a success it is, or was, because I still think the next president is going to modify it and take all the credit.  Before making a judgement, remember IT'S BRAND NEW.  It's not only brand new for you and I and every other individual, it's new for the health insurance industry, doctors, hospitals, etc.  It's a new set of rules they haven't worked with before, so until they get those rules down and working within them, they're going to be all over the place.  Some of the complaints are justified, however, where the blame is being leveled is not.  People are not applying simple logic, they just want to blame.  For example:

 

Plans being cancelled........ Congress and the President were correct when they said you could keep your plan.  The law provides that all plans were automatically grandfathered indefinitely UP UNTIL THEY TIME THEY MAKE A SUBSTANTIAL CHANGE TO THE POLICY, at which time it had to conform to the new legal requirements.  So insurance companies immediately made substantial changes to the policies so they could cancel them and use it an opportunity to lure customers into much more expensive policies.  Bad?  Yes.  The fault of the government and the ACA?  No.  You can lay the blame squarely on the insurance companies for a new method of price gouging.  Not that it should surprise anybody since premiums have actually tripled in the last couple decades, averaging a 40% increase every single year.

 

People aren't signing up...........  As of this morning, nearly 1.5 million have signed up on the federal exchange alone.  Don't forget many states have their own exchanges like California, and many others have combined exchanges with other states.  Those figures aren't part of the 1.5 million being reported as signed up so far.  Secondly, nobody is going to be fined until they file their income taxes for 2014.  Meaning not until April of 2015.  So people are going to be putting it off.  Just like they put everything else off.

 

It's much more expensive than they said it would be.  That will, I think change.  Remember this is new for the insurance companies as well.  They're out in left field and they're going to pad their profits until they have to bring them down by the end of 2014.  By the end of 2014 they are limited to a 20% profit margin, with 80% having to go back into your health care.  Right now they have zero historical data on which to determine what they should be charging.  Any overages will likely be rebated back to the customer in 2015, or they'll put it into new policies, etc.  They just have to reinvest everything over 20% by the end of 2014.  

 

Higher deductible.  Yep.  However, most people don't really understand how deductibles work.  If you have a $10,000 deductible, and you go to the doctor with a $40 co-pay, you have $9,960 left on your deductible.  If you're prescribed $60 of medicine, now you have $9,900 left on your deductible.  Every penny you spend on health care is applied to the deductible, so it goes down and lot faster than you think it does.  And there's the obvious.   Did you know 85% of all bankruptcy filings in the United States are due to an unexpected medical emergency?  Yeah, scary isn't it that you're only one car solid accident away from bankruptcy.  And you also have to consider actual costs of any treatment.  A broken arm is going for over $20,000 these days.  Do you want to pay $20,000 or $10,000 even if you have to use all of your deductible?  

 

And one of the biggest complaints I hear is that now "we" have to pay for "them" to get subsidized health care.  Well, we've always been paying for it.  Many times over.  People think if someone doesn't have health insurance, ends up with that broken arm, the hospital takes their information and sets up a payment program.  That would be true if the patient were honest and going under their own name for treatment.  One of the biggest uses of identity theft is medical treatment.  I know someone who got a bypass on someone else's identity!  Yeah, more than a quarter million dollars in charges they will never pay a dime for because hospitals don't fingerprint people before treating them.  And who pays the hospital so they can stay open and in business?  We do.  We always did.

 

Lastly......It's going to ruin our great health care system.........Uh, we rank 37th in the world in health care.  CUBA RANKS HIGHER THAN WE DO! So does Costa Rica and a few other "third world" countries.  And some people think that's good enough???? Personally I don't think so.  The best health care in the world, bar none, is offered in France.  France has the universal health care system we really want.  Just like the SDI that's taken out of your paycheck, they take a small amount that covers 70% of your health care expenses.  You can pay the remaining 30% out of pocket if you choose, or you can (free market here guys) buy a supplemental policy to cover the 30%.  Basically it's like Medicare for everyone, complete with a Part D supplemental policy. So everybody gets coverage, and health care insurance companies are still in business, making profits.   I have no doubt we WILL get there, but we had to take the first step first.

 

Now, the ACA is NOT by any means the best thing since sliced bread.  We need true Universal Health Care.just like France, but it's going to take a while for them to move to it.  Good ol' Reagan, may everybody travel to California just to spit on his grave, totally fucked up the American citizen by making corporations and profits more important than citizens.  Even HE called it voodoo economics!  And let's not forget he died of Alzheimer's..... Which we now know rears it's ugly head many years before it gets to the point of a diagnosis.  I prefer to believe he was already heading towards dementia when he fucked us over.  Otherwise I'd have to face the fact that it was intentional.  For everyone who followed him though, it was either blind stupidity or malice, because we've been losing our rights and privileges every since.  Which is why I firmly and fully support what I call passive anarchy.  Violent overthrown of the government would only get a whole lot of innocent citizens killed.  But how do you boil a live frog?  Put it in cold water and slowly turn up the heat.  By the time he realizes he's in hot water, he's toast.  That's what we need to do to our government.  Passively resist at every single opportunity.  Otherwise we might as well just line up for the recycling plant.

 

'Rani

 

I'm not even from US, or follow politics there closely, but I agree with most people here. It was indeed a good read. +1.

 

Now, this question of mine may make absolutely no sense, considering my admitted ignorance of how things are run over there, but regardless of you being a liberal or a democrat, or if you support right or left (dunno what they mean lol), I often wonder, considering how big corporations help with running the campaigns and what not, how much say does a President actually have in where the country is headed?

 

As for the tobacco laws, barring the ones which prohibit people from smoking in restaurants and night clubs and what not, they don't make any sense to me! Especially the ones targetting hookah lounges. I mean, the establishment is primarily aimed towards smoking!! Let them do whatever they want. Don't smoke and don't want to be a victim of second hand smoke? DON'T GO THROUGH THE FRIGGIN DOOR!

 

I never get the point in taxing the shit out of tobacco consumers or treating em like criminals! 

[Rani]

Anyone who wants to know how deep in the shit we are politically should start reading Mother Jones.  Admittedly, Mother Jones is a left-focused magazine, but unlike a lot of political magazines, it actually names names complete with facts and figures about how things are done.  It's available outside the country as well as inside, electronically.  I pay a whopping $1.99 a month for a subscription on my Kindle.  Read Mother Jones and if you're a U.S. citizen, you'll never have another peaceful night's sleep.  Ever.  

 

Here's the problem...... People begin to think of government, all government, as though it were a living, breathing person.  They begin to give it it's own rights and privileges and begin to support it beyond the individual people it's supposedly made up of and created to serve.  A good example is Social Security.  Now, if you have a leg with bone cancer and the doctor came to you and said, "You can survive, but we have to amputate the leg."  You look at yourself and say "Live with no leg, or be buried with both of them."  And you tell the doctor to go ahead.  People are looking at the government as the body and Social Security as the leg.  BUT IT'S NOT!  Government is NOT a sentient creature that has a right to a continued existence.  It's merely a system of laws and regulations that allow individuals to live and work together in relative harmony according to the agreements they make among themselves..  It's the rules of the tribe so to speak, but it's not the tribe itself. Until we stop granting government as having sentient status, we're all going to be diminished.  We keep talking about how "America" needs to reduce Social Security, taxes, etc., if it's going to survive, but it doesn't have an inherent right to survival that outweighs the rights of the individuals themselves.  It serves us, we do not, or rather should not, serve it.  Until we get over the mindset that somehow government has more rights than we do, we're bailing a dingy with a whole lot of holes in the bottom.

 

Here's what I finds hilarious about the conservative movement.  By NOT having health care, and welfare, and all those other social services they like to rage against, they diminish their own power and ability to control the future.  Let's face it.  Most people don't want to be involved in politics.  They don't really care who's in charge and they don't really care if their boss is a multi-billionaire.  They only want to live their lives.  They want go to work for a decent wage, have a home to go home to at night, whether it's rented or mortgaged, educate their kids, watch football on the weekends and have a BBQ on the 4th of July.  Beyond living their lives, they don't really care much and they go away happy and silent to the "great workings" of government and industry.  Why, if you really want to control the country, wouldn't you give them the very things that will keep them silent and happy and our of your way?????  

 

My youngest cat Keiko can't stand me getting dressed in the morning to go out.  She literally circles me over and over and over again.   I sit on the bed to put on my socks and pants and she's walking across my lap and around my back and across my lap and ........ Indefinitely.  So now we have the morning treat ritual.  Every morning I throw a hand full of cat treats on the other side of the bed and to the sound of crunch, crunch, crunch, I get dressed peacefully.  Consider the population as Keiko and cat treats as social services.  You get a lot more done on YOUR agenda when the population is happy and out of your way.  For the right wing not to see that is very likely one of the dumbest things about the whole movement.  And luckily, why over time, they're going to fail.  Because they'll keep going and take away one key "treat" to many and the population will revolt.  It's happened that way every single time in history.  Every.  Single.  Time.  Why on earth else do you think Democrats keeps giving things away to the population?  So they're happy and silent and out of the way.

 

'Rani