Goldman Sachs Scandal

[kaoz187]

if any of you guys have heard about this goldman and sachs is being accused of manipulating the aluminum market and making some 3 billion of it each year. The global aluminum production in 2012 was 48 million tonnes. and in their metro warehouse alone they have around 1.8 million tonnes of aluminum. that is ridiculous that they could control and have that much affect on one market. taking money away from hard working people. 

 

rant rant rant

[kaoz187]

they arent exactly hoarding it...they hold it for the buyer who is going to use it to create cans, but they are creating a bottleneck effect since they hold so much of it

[kaoz187]

they created a law against people hording aluminum like that...they have to move 3,000 pounds of aluminum a day minimum...but they're using a loophole by just moving the required amount to another one of their warehouse keeping under the law

[Skoozle]

How are the business operations of GS any of the government's business?

 

If they want to be the biggest supplier of aluminum in the world, good for them.  If they want to set their price for a commodity they provide, good for them.  If they want to be competitive in the aluminum market, good for them.

 

If they double the price of aluminum people won't buy it.  If people don't buy it now GS is spending millions of dollars housing a commodity they can't sell.  Aluminum users switch to another material and move on with life. The price of aluminum crashes and now GS is stuck with 1.8M tons of garbage and they lay in the bed they made.

 

In the meantime, GS has worked very hard to accumulate enough capitol to be able to hold 1.8M tons of aluminum and they created quite a few jobs for the staff at the warehouses.

 

Sometimes business is ugly, but the government has no right to say "hey, you're making too much money.  We're going to make a law that says it's illegal for you to make so much money".

[Rani]

Okay, so what you're saying is that it's okay to destabilize the entire market because they're making money...... Okay, tell me something..... Isn't that the excuse Wall Street used when they destabilized the world's economy?  How's that working out for you?

 

'Rani

[Chreees]

All I have to say is I'm not surprised.

[kaoz187]

it should be a very big concern to the government actually. should give them a wake up call to control banks better. GS doesn't OWN the aluminum. they hold it for the manufacturers that use it. They trade in the stock...buy a shitload...THEN by slowing down delivery time and bullshitting sending it back and forth between its warehouses it causes the stock to rise making them a killing. and they pretty much have a monopoly on that particular . commodity which is very much a concern. It is all completely within the law, but totally unethical. Oh well hopefully the gov does something about it. 

 

And GS sure as hell did not work hard for that much capital...all they do is make money from every day people..just like any other bank (:

[Chreees]

Boy I sure do wish we still had all the laws that prevented companies from monopolizing everything... Too bad money got into politics and changed all that.

[Skoozle]

it should be a very big concern to the government actually. should give them a wake up call to control banks better. GS doesn't OWN the aluminum. they hold it for the manufacturers that use it. They trade in the stock...buy a shitload...THEN by slowing down delivery time and bullshitting sending it back and forth between its warehouses it causes the stock to rise making them a killing. and they pretty much have a monopoly on that particular . commodity which is very much a concern. It is all completely within the law, but totally unethical. Oh well hopefully the gov does something about it. 
 
And GS sure as hell did not work hard for that much capital...all they do is make money from every day people..just like any other bank (:

Okay, so what you're saying is that it's okay to destabilize the entire market because they're making money...... Okay, tell me something..... Isn't that the excuse Wall Street used when they destabilized the world's economy?  How's that working out for you?
 
'Rani

I'm saying it's wrong to artificially stabilize the economy with reactive laws. Isn't a bank's or Investor's job to make money?

You want Goldman Sachs to be fair to aluminum consumers but it's ok for the Gov to be unfair to Goldman Sachs?

How about you and I play a game of poker but I get to change the rules of which hand beats which as the game goes along. And I can change the rules after you have played your hand. Let's see how fair you think that is.

If they broke existing laws, nail them to the wall. If they found a new way to violate our constitutional rights, amend the laws and tell them to stop. If they are running a smart business, well that's the American Dream isn't it?

According to the artical they hold 25% of the US supply. So 75% is available elsewhere is you only want domestic aluminum. If you're willing to import about 96% of the world supply is available from suppliers other than Goldman Sachs. You don't like their business methods, don't buy it from them.

Should I call the police because the gas station near my house sells gas more expensive than the one across town? Or should I either suck it up and buy the expensive gas or drive my ass across town and fill up on cheap gas.

I don't see how 25% of the national aluminum supply or 4% of the world supply is a monopoly.

And for what it's worth, I'm doing just fine in this "destabilized economy".

[Rani]

You don't get it, and probably won't for oh, another 20 years or so.  You're one of those young enough to still think corporations are people, they're on your side, they're going to keep you working, they're going to provide you with retirement, etc.  Let me tell you something, we have regulations, we have unions, we hve restrictions, because time after time, AFTER TIME, corporations have proven by their actions we need those things.  Corporations are about one thing and one thing only.  They're about the numbers.  Strictly and totally about profit.  You don't matter, resources don't matter, governments don't matter.  The thing that matters to companies, especially global companies, are the dollars.  I spent ten years in government and one of my jobs was to process "eminent domain".  That's right, processing the paperwork to take land and houses away from the people who bought them for which we paid them the lowest "fair" market value and do you know why?  More times than not, because some big corporation wanted the land to build a plant on.  So we literally threw people off their own property.  And that's just one aspect of having corporations now running the world.  What's more in the case of Goldman Sachs, they have one of the all time worst records of abuse by any corporation EVER.  Or did you forget they recently managed to "lose" $2 billion of investors money?

 

Sorry, fella, but there is no level playing field.  The fact that you think there is, that you think you get to pick and choose, only means to me you're young enough you haven't been on the receiving end of their manipulations yet.  You will.  Hopefully for your sake it won't be your retirement, like oh yeah, MILLIONS of pensions for people when Goldman Sachs helped destroy the world economy.  But hey, you go on believing in that fair market thing.  But hear me now, 'cuz you will believe me later.  

 

'Rani

[kaoz187]

The domestic companies cannot just go and purchase it from another supplier since they already purchase said aluminum. but GS using their "smart buisness" is limiting what goes out...artificially rising prices, which is as you say...wrong. Many american companies sold to the nazis during ww2. America sold to both sides of the iran-iraq war. they all made money using "smart business" but was it the right thing to do? just because it makes money doesn't mean its right. 

[joytron]

How are the business operations of GS any of the government's business?

 

New York's Federal Reserve chairman was previously a director at GS and owned stock in the company purchasing it at historic lows while on the board. GS also benefited from the bailout of AIG. GS and its employees benefit by being protected under US laws, so why shouldn't the American public be protected by the company.