Rani Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 [quote name='mustang67n' timestamp='1331175960' post='541726'] [quote name='Rani' timestamp='1331175576' post='541724'] To me the last and bottom line is if this is NOT about stopping women from controlling their own reproduction then why ARE MALE PERFORMANCE DRUGS STILL OFFERED AND COVERED??????? 'Rani [/quote] Because the male performance enhancers help the old politicians get it up.. DUH. They're the ones writing these laws, they're just trying to get their piece of the pie [/quote] That illustrates my point exactly. 'Rani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushrat Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 [quote name='Rani' timestamp='1331180957' post='541731'] [quote name='mustang67n' timestamp='1331175960' post='541726'] [quote name='Rani' timestamp='1331175576' post='541724'] To me the last and bottom line is if this is NOT about stopping women from controlling their own reproduction then why ARE MALE PERFORMANCE DRUGS STILL OFFERED AND COVERED??????? 'Rani [/quote] Because the male performance enhancers help the old politicians get it up.. DUH. They're the ones writing these laws, they're just trying to get their piece of the pie [/quote] That illustrates my point exactly. 'Rani [/quote] Yup! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScotsman Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 The question at hand is weather a religious owned, and run institution should be forced to provide their money to pay for something contrary to their long published beliefs. It's not a war of the sexes, but a liberal activist trying to force a private institution to pay for their freebee that said institution has an unfaltering history of being against. I don't think any item/compound not deemed a medical necessity should be paid for by anyone but the individual choosing to use such, bit that is not relevant to the facts that: 1 ) Georgetown Law is a CATHOLIC institution 2) The catholic church has a proven track record of belief that BC is contrary to the desires of G*d. If she doesn't like it, she should hit the road. Don't let the door smack her in the ass. incidentally, show me one thing in ANY catholic canon law that says anything about the likes of viagra, or you point is just more irrelevant, hypocritical noise in this case.Where is that liberal separation of church & state? It's fine when some militant atheist wants to bitch about an old poster in some gym, but you ignore it when you want the gov't to attack a long standing church doctrine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScotsman Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Just a further thought. Is you hold to your liberal-media's figure of 33.$/ month average, and figure Georgetown U.'s female enrollment, I find $3,500,000.00 per year to pay for a non-necessity. Just who the fuck is paying that? Hint, the insurance companies are passing it to the diocese, who hand it to the school, and they add it to the tuition, and you put it on your student loan. Sounds like a damn good plan, going to be paying for that BC for 10 years. Damn, why didn't I think of that? Now no more bitching about what school cost, because in the end, what they pay for, you are going to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rani Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 And is the Catholic school or church paying for the medical insurance for said student Scotsman? Then why are they involved at all? Campaigning against birth control being provided is the stupidest thing possible. There's just no way around it. Let's look at reality here for a moment. 1) The Catholic Church is anti-abortion. Women have abortions why? Because they don't want to be pregnant. Birth control prevents pregnancy. Guess what? Want fewer abortions? [b]Make birth control free and readily accessible.[/b] 2) You want to quit using your tax money for welfare mother. Contrary to what most people think, having actually been a part of the really, REALLY poor in this country, they celebrate when someone finds a job. They throw parties. They don't want to live on less than minimum wage, and be forced to stand in line an entire day to just turn in paperwork to get benefits. Being on welfare is a much more miserable life than you think it is. Yes, yes, yes, I keep hearing about people on welfare driving Cadillacs, but I have yet to see one. Last time I drove through the hood, about oh, a month ago, I saw beaters for the most part, with the occasional exception of the drug dealer not on welfare being able to afford the Caddy. How about Section 8, you might say? Where are you going to live for the months, that's right months, it takes to qualify for Section 8? Could you live on what welfare would pay you? Do you really think anybody would even want to live on welfare when they could actually get a job and provide a decent living? Have you not seen shame as someone hands over their food stamps at the grocery store? Most of the people who claim they do, are the ones going to work everyday, hating their jobs, and jealous of those they think are just sitting around not having to deal with the headaches they have working at a job they hate. Contrary to what most of those of us actually making a living believe, for the vast majority, they're not having children to stay on welfare, they're stuck staying on welfare because they keep getting pregnant. But when sex is the only recreation you can afford, and you have an imprinted instinctive natural urge telling you to mate, you're going to mate. You think they're happy about getting pregnant over and over? Very, very few women want to have endless children. It keeps you from working and bettering your life, it's hard on your body, and you have to put up with endless crying and just plain messes, day after day after day. Most of the poor women in this country would much rather be not pregnant, working and not on welfare. Want less of your tax money going to welfare? [b]Make birth control free and readily accessible.[/b] 3) Too many single teenage mothers ruining their lives. Absolutely. Know how to reduce the number of teenage pregnancies? [b]Make birth control free and accessible.[/b] 4) Too many dead beat dads. Yep. Know what prevents fatherhood. Birth control. Want fewer dead beat dads? [b]Make birth control free and accessible[/b]. Here's the thing. You can't have it both ways, and neither can the Catholic Church or their similar ilk under any other name. You can't decry abortion as a mortal sin, complain about welfare, or your teenage daughter pregnant because she was afraid to ask her Puritan-style parent to take her to a clinic, complain about dead beat dads ruining the next generation and then take away the one thing that will help solve all these problems. And if you think it's not about control? Controlling women and keeping them barefoot and pregnant instead of upwardly mobile, controlling the poor and destitute who will continue to tithe in the hopes God will step in and save them and a 1% equally trying to keep them from being upwardly mobile so they'll be desperate to work for minimum wage, then honestly Scotsman, let me finish this conversation with your cat, because I'm thinking he's smarter than you are. 'Rani 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rani Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 [quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1331231028' post='541817'] Just a further thought. Is you hold to your liberal-media's figure of 33.$/ month average, and figure Georgetown U.'s female enrollment, I find $3,500,000.00 per year to pay for a non-necessity. Just who the fuck is paying that? Hint, the insurance companies are passing it to the diocese, who hand it to the school, and they add it to the tuition, and you put it on your student loan. Sounds like a damn good plan, going to be paying for that BC for 10 years. Damn, why didn't I think of that? Now no more bitching about what school cost, because in the end, what they pay for, you are going to pay. [/quote] YOU DON'T PAY THE INSURANCE PREMIUMS! Neither does the school. The person receiving the benefits does. 'Rani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScotsman Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 [quote name='Rani' timestamp='1331232516' post='541821'] [quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1331231028' post='541817'] Just a further thought. Is you hold to your liberal-media's figure of 33.$/ month average, and figure Georgetown U.'s female enrollment, I find $3,500,000.00 per year to pay for a non-necessity. Just who the fuck is paying that? Hint, the insurance companies are passing it to the diocese, who hand it to the school, and they add it to the tuition, and you put it on your student loan. Sounds like a damn good plan, going to be paying for that BC for 10 years. Damn, why didn't I think of that? Now no more bitching about what school cost, because in the end, what they pay for, you are going to pay. [/quote] YOU DON'T PAY THE INSURANCE PREMIUMS! Neither does the school. The person receiving the benefits does. 'Rani [/quote] Rani, you are smarter than your oversimplification of the situation makes you seem, one of the very few liberals that I can actually read, and think "she has a point, I don't agree, but I can understand her point." But on this one I think you are letting the trees hide the forest. Leave the emotion out, and use logic over the whole subject. Where does the benefit money come from? By your model the person receiving it's benefit is the payer... must be a free-money tree somewhere. Do you think united healthcare in this case, is some place you put 1.2K/yr and have it turn to some unlimited source of money? It's not just miss fluke that has their $ going there. Her political activism/ and free choices should not be inflicted on the rest of them. If she wants, she doesn't have to buy coverage through Georgetown U. She can go call any company she wants, I am sure there is one that meets her expectations. Since you think Georgetown isn't contributing to the plan, it would make zero difference if she used any other company. Other students may be devout Catholics, and wholly support the policy, and their restrictions on use of funds. That may have figured into their choice of why they went there, Why do you think their rights don't matter? Why does the liberal desire to force their agenda trump the rights of a person that just wants to not have anything to do with participation a particular agenda? What happens when that pendulum swings, and you find yourself the one that just wants to be left alone, and some right wing nationalist nut tries to force your compliance in something? If history shows us anything, it is that the farther left one side pulls the window, the farther it bounces back the other way. A person who has a religious belief against something as being a sin should not be forced to pay for it against their will. A person doesn't want their $ going to pay for something, they should be free to choose a plan that does not spend their money on that item. Put BC out of the picture, and quit treating it like a feminist cause. It's a freedom of religion issue. It would be different if we did not have a gov't trying to require that we buy a product, then now you are saying we must not only buy that product, but we must contribute our money to something that some individuals think is a sin against their beliefs. And hint: NOTHING IS FREEEEEEE!!!! Someone is paying for it, just because you are freeloading doesn't mean your freebee materialized by way of some wizard conjuring it out of thin air, or some gia-earth-mother making it appear. Nothing can be made "free" because everything costs something to someone. What you mean is to make someone else pay for something you want. That is stupid, that is greedy, that is deadbeat, that will always fail in the end. (and don't overpersonalize the above, it's a generalization meant as an example to get people to think of things as an involvement in their own choices... "you" does not mean Miss Rani individualy... but people as a whole. ) See what happens when the weather goes wrong. I was planning on flying today, and instead I am sitting here watching the snow fall... and wondering what is in the water in Cali. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScotsman Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Incidentally... Georgetown's student health plan does NOT include ED drugs, or MPB treatments, sexual enhancers, or roids for the . Why not? Shouldn't they be as important as miss fluke's sex life? If they gotta pay for her pill, why not viagra? Seems like a damn sexist thing to make a big deal over her not getting any, but refusing to buck-up for the limpdicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rani Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Scotsman, 100 people pay 100 dollars each month for health insurance. $120,000.00 Over the course of 1 year, assuming 50 people use it, for a total of $50,000.00. Leaving $70,000.00 in profit. Your'e a business man, you old coot (said affectionately, lol) so don't tell me you don't get the math. No, nothing is free, but every month people pay for heath insurance that only a fraction actually draw against. Let's not pretend health insurance companies are doing this for the fun of it shall we? And it still doesn't track why the school couldn't offer two policies - one where the price could be the same or with higher co-pays and deductibles for additional "included" drugs. No different than in your company and mine, I choose Package A instead of Package B. The point is, they don't want them to have access to the birth control option AT ALL. 'Rani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rani Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Oh, and damned right it's a "feminist cause" because if men got pregnant, birth control and abortion would have all been both legal and free about a thousand years ago, and don't pretend otherwise. 'Rani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joytron Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Health care is extremely right skewed, a very small percentage of the population uses almost all the resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScotsman Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 [quote name='Rani' timestamp='1331242983' post='541839'] Oh, and damned right it's a "feminist cause" because if men got pregnant, birth control and abortion would have all been both legal and free about a thousand years ago, and don't pretend otherwise. 'Rani [/quote] More than once I said the answer to the whole abortion issue was to make a functional male birth control pill. You can bet that damn thing would NEVER get forgotten. Yet again, Georgetown's policy doesn't include ED drugs, hair growth, steroids, vitamins... so why the special treatment for women? On the other hand, if you are a 30 year old woman that hasn't found a boyfriend that can afford the pill, you have already made some hopelessly screwed up decisions. How's that for a sexist comment? Did you expect less? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rani Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 [quote name='TheScotsman' timestamp='1331250913' post='541861'] [quote name='Rani' timestamp='1331242983' post='541839'] Oh, and damned right it's a "feminist cause" because if men got pregnant, birth control and abortion would have all been both legal and free about a thousand years ago, and don't pretend otherwise. 'Rani [/quote] More than once I said the answer to the whole abortion issue was to make a functional male birth control pill. You can bet that damn thing would NEVER get forgotten. [color=#0000cd][b] I keep hearing the only reason one hasn't been created is because men are afraid it would impact their masculinity via their hormones. Whereas for the most part, women's birth control pills have some beneficial side effects, like reduction of PMS, cramps, etc. And since the medical profession is still male dominated, the overall general attitude about the bad side effects is "oh, well".[/b][/color] Yet again, Georgetown's policy doesn't include ED drugs, hair growth, steroids, vitamins... so why the special treatment for women? [color=#0000cd][b]It's not just Georgetown, it's about religious organizations all over and a whole heck of a lot of the policies do cover all the things you mentioned. Georgetown just happens to be the example we're arguing about because Limbug decided to call a women trying to take responsibility for her sexuality and reproduction a slut.[/b][/color] On the other hand, if you are a 30 year old woman that hasn't found a boyfriend that can afford the pill, you have already made some hopelessly screwed up decisions. [color=#0000cd][b]And women [u]need[/u] "boyfriends" because? I take it it would be okay if a man buys her birth control, but she shouldn't have the option to buy it herself. [/b][/color] How's that for a sexist comment? [color=#0000cd][b]Very.[/b][/color] Did you expect less? [b][color=#0000cd]From you? Never! [/color][/b] [b][color=#0000cd]Still love ya though big guy. Even when you're in major caveman mode![/color][/b] [/quote] [b][color=#0000cd]'Rani[/color][/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navy876 Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 [quote name='Chreees' timestamp='1331171611' post='541718'] Here's an interesting thing for you all to think about... Those who are saying "I don't want my tax dollars going to pay for someone's birth control!" or "I don't want my tax dollars to pay for some woman to have an abortion!"... Think about this: What about all the medical issues caused by tobacco, alcohol, and everything else that people DO TO THEMSELVES? Guess we should just make sure none of the above is covered by insurance, huh? EDIT: Sonya and Gramps, concerning the price of birth control, I think it's priced differently in different parts of the country... Sonya, you live in Cali, and Gramps, you live in Alabama... Everything is going to be cheaper in Alabama compared to California, just as it is here in Tennessee. [/quote]Chris after reading this whole thread. Your comment, changed my views of it all. *Tips hat* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chreees Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 [quote name='navy876' timestamp='1331261138' post='541868'] [quote name='Chreees' timestamp='1331171611' post='541718'] Here's an interesting thing for you all to think about... Those who are saying "I don't want my tax dollars going to pay for someone's birth control!" or "I don't want my tax dollars to pay for some woman to have an abortion!"... Think about this: What about all the medical issues caused by tobacco, alcohol, and everything else that people DO TO THEMSELVES? Guess we should just make sure none of the above is covered by insurance, huh? EDIT: Sonya and Gramps, concerning the price of birth control, I think it's priced differently in different parts of the country... Sonya, you live in Cali, and Gramps, you live in Alabama... Everything is going to be cheaper in Alabama compared to California, just as it is here in Tennessee. [/quote]Chris after reading this whole thread. Your comment, changed my views of it all. *Tips hat* [/quote] Haha, thanks? It seems so common sense to me; I don't understand how or why others don't get it... Oh yeah, their religion gets in the way. Fact of the matter is we as tax-paying citizens will always pay for things we don't want to, no matter how much we cry about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gramps Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Is there something wrong with letting one's religion guide one's life? Are we really going there with this discussion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rani Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 [quote name='gramps' timestamp='1331318783' post='541940'] Is there something wrong with letting one's religion guide one's life? Are we really going there with this discussion? [/quote] I would never say it's wrong to let someone's religion guide their life. Mine certainly guides mine. The problem comes when someone tries to insist [color=#ff0000][b]their[/b][/color] religion guide [color=#ff0000][b]my[/b][/color] life. Like telling me I can't have birth control in my health insurance (to stay on topic) that I pay for out of my own pocket. For couple reasons beyond just that whole freedom of religion thing that cause the creation of this country to begin with. First of all, every single organized religion out there presumes to know the mind of God. And the worst are the three Peoples of the Book (Christian, Judaic, Muslim). We all take this book handwritten by man whether divinely inspired or not, muck around with it back in the days when churches were the government, and certainly had a vested interest in slanting things their way, and then use the dregs left over as an excuse to fuel our prejudices and hatreds. All the while conveniently ignoring all those little inconvenient passages about free will, and love, and acceptance, and compassion. I mean really, the bible clearly also states women wearing men's clothing and vice versa is an abomination. Are we going to start burning all the jeans wearing women at the stake now? Secondly, organized religion gives almost no credit for true omnipotence on the part of God. Remember what Scotsman said in the Swamp People thread about un-hunted herds dying a hideous death from overpopulation and starvation? Does anybody really think that God is so incredibly uninformed he (or she) wouldn't have the forethought to know that at some point in time, humanity is going to be in the same boat as an overwhelming population of deer? That whole "go forth and multiply" thing was probably intended to create enough of our species to not die out, but who knows what may have happened to instructions about not overrunning the earth? Maybe the Council of Trent did away with them because they wanted more desperate poor around to give up a substantial portion of their earning into the collection plate. After all, the more people you have in the congregation the richer the take, right? And lest we forget, the Catholic Church is the wealthiest organization on the planet, bar none. Or am I the only one that finds that a strange coincidence? There is a huge difference between faith, which should guide our hearts and souls, and organized religion which is a business like any other. It's just in the business of God. While keeping all it's tax free benefits. Birth control has never been about faith. It's been about the business of religion. Wealth, control, and for that matter, in an increasing atheistic world, survival. That's not to say there aren't some good churches out there, with some really good people at their helm doing really good things for the community they serve. But when you get to universal decrees for everyone presuming you have the only right and moral pathway to God? Sorry, no. Not allowed, at least not in this country. And I've said it before as our discussion went round and round (and round), this change for birth control being free changes almost nothing. Birth control is still in almost every heath insurance policy out there, the patient just pays a co-pay. The change means no more co-pay. That's it. So for organized religion up in arms claiming they're being forced to provide birth control? Funny, because if they're buying the insurance, they need to check the fine print, because I can pretty much guarantee you they already are. Just with a co-pay. Scotsman keeps going round and round about the university paying for it, but they don't pay the premiums. Essentially they're just a middle man providing the paperwork. Acting as the broker so to speak. The cost is still shouldered by the patient. So again, they should have no say so in what policy each student gets to choose. But again, they want to make that choice for all the patients who also happen to be students at their school. There is absolutely no reason health insurance shouldn't be different for men and women though - different benefit structure and different premiums. Generally, a woman and a man of the same age pay the same premium. Another scam on the part of the insurance company in my opinion, because historically women tend to be healthier over their lifetimes. Longer life expectancy, etc. And we tend to visit doctors for smaller issues less often. Have you noticed in this particular fight how the big insurance company gets to have their way, the church gets to have their way, the government gets to have their way, everybody gets to have their way according to what they want except one very important little group: the female patients who want a physician to prescribe birth control. 'Rani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chreees Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 [quote name='gramps' timestamp='1331318783' post='541940'] Is there something wrong with letting one's religion guide one's life? Are we really going there with this discussion? [/quote] There's nothing wrong with it until... What Rani said: [quote name='Rani' timestamp='1331321083' post='541943'] The problem comes when someone tries to insist [color=#ff0000][b]their[/b][/color] religion guide [color=#ff0000][b]my[/b][/color] life. [/quote] Which politicians often do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gramps Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I would love to just cut out the insurance company altogether and pay a monthly fee to my local hospital, St. Vincent's East.[url="http://www.stvhs.com/"] [/url]They do everything a body needs. [url="http://www.stvhs.com/"]http://www.stvhs.com/[/url] Wouldn't help Ms. Fluke much, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rani Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 [quote name='gramps' timestamp='1331332334' post='541955'] I would love to just cut out the insurance company altogether and pay a monthly fee to my local hospital, St. Vincent's East.[url="http://www.stvhs.com/"] [/url]They do everything a body needs. [url="http://www.stvhs.com/"]http://www.stvhs.com/[/url] Wouldn't help Ms. Fluke much, though. [/quote] Funny thing about her..... We would have probably never even noticed who she was if it hadn't been for good ol' Limbug. Nice to see his sponsors are thanking him too. 'Rani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gramps Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 An even bigger backlash has started against the sponsers who dropped Limbaugh. Watch most of them come back to him in the next few months, albeit under the radar. That's too big an audience to ignore. Feel-good political statements are one thing; the bottom line is another. Rush's listeners are better educated than your typical CNN or MSNBC audience; they are also more affluent so advertisers get a real bang for their buck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joytron Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 [quote name='gramps' timestamp='1331334632' post='541960'] Rush's listeners are better educated than your typical CNN or MSNBC audience; they are also more affluent so advertisers get a real bang for their buck. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rani Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 [quote name='gramps' timestamp='1331334632' post='541960'] An even bigger backlash has started against the sponsers who dropped Limbaugh. Watch most of them come back to him in the next few months, albeit under the radar. That's too big an audience to ignore. Feel-good political statements are one thing; the bottom line is another. Rush's listeners are better educated than your typical CNN or MSNBC audience; they are also more affluent so advertisers get a real bang for their buck. [/quote] And you've just put your finger on one of the most frightening things going on in this country right now. That hate and prejudice and instigating violence has become the coin of the realm. 'Rani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gramps Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 It always has been, and not just in our country and time. All the more reason for faith and spirituality. This country is about to suffer a long-overdue judgment. There's very little time left to prevent it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScotsman Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 [quote name='gramps' timestamp='1331337826' post='541966'] It always has been, and not just in our country and time. All the more reason for faith and spirituality. This country is about to suffer a long-overdue judgment. There's very little time left to prevent it. [/quote] The difference is that now the same tactics the progressives have used against us for years are now being used back at those same progressives, and with great success. I love it! The days of the average conservative thinking they are isolated, of one of a very few are gone. Years ago no one would have prusued fluke's prior statements, nor who is actually pulling her puppet-strings, but thanks to the eternal nature of the internet, it comes out that she is being "managed" by an obama-goon, and mao lover, Anita Dunn, then "represented" by SKD/Knickerbocker. Ya, sure, little miss victim. Please, save me from another manufactured-victim from the left. You believe her BS, you are one dim bulb. I don't think there is any time left to prevent the inevitable. Where this mess goes from here is going to be interesting those of us that enjoy the study of modern history, and cultural interaction. As for Rush... I see he has already told one company that tried to come crawling back, that they could go pound sand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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