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Bushbr

The Revolution Is Nigh!

121 posts in this topic
The problem with the idea of revolution in America today, is that it would necessarily be a violent one.

QUOTE (erufiku @ Apr 10 2008, 01:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah, go ahead and let the dumb masses decide your future. Perfect way of bringing about change.

Isn't that essentially what democracy is? Edited by gaia.plateau

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QUOTE (gaia.plateau @ Apr 10 2008, 12:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The problem with the idea of revolution in America today, is that it would necessarily be a violent one.

QUOTE (erufiku @ Apr 10 2008, 01:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah, go ahead and let the dumb masses decide your future. Perfect way of bringing about change.

Isn't that essentially what democracy is?


The geniuses implemented the electoral college to fix that rolleyes.gif

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First i want to say in reaction to some one saying "we where once a peacefully country", that that is total B.S. (see the documentary Why We Fight).
Second i want to say that your right the military-industrial complex has grown way out of control and i bet Eisenhower is sitting in the afterlife saying " i told you so, but only the god D*** hippies would listen to me"
anyways as far as revolutions go, i would suggest that, yea Marx is an obvious starting point but he should not be the only source for educating people on sociological and political revolution. Its true his utopia is a great idea on paper but cannot be truly realized because of human nature. There will never be a Utopian society because it denies crucial aspects of our own humanity, such as the need to advance ones own position in life.

Revolution also is not as glamorous as Marx would lead you to believe. Perfect examples would be the first and second Indochina war, and how the communist revolution of that country took from before 1950-to 1975 leaving the country of Vietnam in shambles and hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese, French, and Americans dead. Another revolution that took place shortly after Vietnam's is the Khmer rouge takeover of the kingdom of Cambodia. Pol Pot in the name of "Revolution" and to take the country back to year 0, the year of reeducation, the year of the farmer, the year poor man, Killed over (if i remember correctly) something like 6 million of his own people in reeducation camps (Thats Genocide). I only say this to illustrate that not only do the oppressors cause strife, but so does the revolution.

However there is revolution that does work, such as the French Student and Worker Revolutions of the 1960s, also the tearing down of the Berlin wall was another example of people rising above their oppressors. Revolution is a dangerous word, and a Dangerous time, a time that involves messiahs and icons. It isn't something to be done brashly or hastily.

I want to end with a suggestion of two books, One is "The Player Piano" by Kurt Vonnegut Jr, and the other is "Bread and Wine" by Ignazio Silone. His books talk about the red revolution in Fascist Italy under Mussolini, and speaks on what revolutionaries will find from the common people "about the mental capacity of an eggplant) i believe some one said.

o and also for those Americans that like political and sociological philosophy read Charles Taylor: "the Ethics of Authenticity"



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Shameless plug: Ron Paul REVOLution!

He's a consitutionalist, and believes in small government. While no where near a instant fix, which nothing ever is, I feel he is a step in the right direction for our country. Every other candidate, including other Republicans, will just turn this country into more of a dictatorship... in our "beloved" Bush Jr's footsteps.

IMNSHO, Ron Paul is the only American candidate.


/Shameless plug

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The people of this country NEED to read the Consitition...ALL OF IT! They need to undersatand the first three words: WE THE PEOPLE.

In the 30's, the government was afraid of the people, now it is us that is afraid of them. We need to back control of our country. The two parties don't have a clue....the answer is us...all of us. Don't expect elected officals to fix this shit. We need to get off the fucking couch and take it back. Until that happens, we are simply fucked.

Keep in mind that in 2013, medicare and Social Security will require 53 Trillion dollars..... that will be EVERY dollar brought in (and then some) by taxes....what is going to happen then?

Just a few random thoughts

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QUOTE (gaia.plateau @ Apr 10 2008, 03:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The problem with the idea of revolution in America today, is that it would necessarily be a violent one.


Not sure why you'd think that's a terribly bad thing. I'd much prefer a long, violent revolution that uproots the entire system to a bunch of bullshit protest rallies that do nothing but create a long list of compromises.

The beauty of Unabomber's writing lies in the fact that it can be applied to many circumstances... and suits this one quite nicely.

http://www.chicagoabc.org/ship_of_fools.htm
And for those who avoid reading like the plague...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKh1mOeXfqE

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QUOTE (HarryTheHookaMaster @ Apr 10 2008, 05:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The people of this country NEED to read the Consitition...ALL OF IT! They need to undersatand the first three words: WE THE PEOPLE.

In the 30's, the government was afraid of the people, now it is us that is afraid of them. We need to back control of our country. The two parties don't have a clue....the answer is us...all of us. Don't expect elected officals to fix this shit. We need to get off the fucking couch and take it back. Until that happens, we are simply fucked.

Keep in mind that in 2013, medicare and Social Security will require 53 Trillion dollars..... that will be EVERY dollar brought in (and then some) by taxes....what is going to happen then?

Just a few random thoughts



thats what im saying. I'mion talking a revolution like that of the worker's revolution in france. having the working class stand up and take back what it rightly theres. not even technically a political over-haul, but rather a social over-haul. i do not claim to know how this is to come to pass. but just that it must, and when the working class stands up, if they are not heard, then there will be violence.

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This thread fills me with joy. I didn’t realize revolutionary sentiment was so prevalent. I know this is a forum composed of youth, but it still seems a shift from previous norms. Life is too sedentary, let’s have a revolution to spice things up. Revolutions are almost always perverted, but ultimately would it be any worse?

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hey, I'll take the support where i can get it lol

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OH LORD! TAKE ME! TAKE ME NOW! RAPTURE ME LORD! PLEASE! WE'RE ALL GOING TO HELL!

The only revolution that's going to happen in this country is when people get their heads out of their collective asses and take their power back. From the number of newly registered democrats in Pennsylvania, Barack Obama seems to be doing that. Unless there's another Republican trick fest coming up. Rush Limbaugh and his minions might be at it again!

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QUOTE (John Stuart Mill @ Apr 10 2008, 09:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Revolutions are almost always perverted, but ultimately would it be any worse?

LoL, I love that a picture of Lenin follows this.

Intentional irony, I assume. That was like the one and only successful revolution in history that actually made things worse, unless you count the Amin coup against Milton Obote in 60s Uganda, and I don't, because none of the people supported it.

The only successful revolution in history that I can think of that wasn't perverted, as you say, is that by Castro et alii, (Guevara, Cienfuegos, etc). Unless you consider counterrevolution to be the same as perversion, such as was the case in many Latin American and Middle Eastern cases during the Cold War (you know the drill, developing country overthrows US-backed brutal dictatorship, starts regulating healthcare, education, water supply, etc., US-overthrows functioning democracy and props up an even worse dictatorship), and I don't. Edited by gaia.plateau

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the people in the sixties may have been on a bunch of nht but at least they were organized people in this country are too lazy to get out and speak against the government. in the sixties hundreds of people showed up for a flag burning today you might get 50. a couple of months ago my friend tried to organize a peace rally around the county courthouse where i live and maybe 15 people showed up but last summer the ku klux klan had a rally burned flags and shouted racist remarks and probably over 300 people were there. mostly people just to watch the spectacle of it all. i guess those things are like car wrecks they always gather a crowd. but back to what i was saying, there will never be revolution without organization and there is no organization to speak of. and frankly i don't believe there ever will be.

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QUOTE (jonm1357 @ Apr 11 2008, 08:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
the people in the sixties may have been on a bunch of nht but at least they were organized people in this country are too lazy to get out and speak against the government. in the sixties hundreds of people showed up for a flag burning today you might get 50. a couple of months ago my friend tried to organize a peace rally around the county courthouse where i live and maybe 15 people showed up but last summer the ku klux klan had a rally burned flags and shouted racist remarks and probably over 300 people were there. mostly people just to watch the spectacle of it all. i guess those things are like car wrecks they always gather a crowd. but back to what i was saying, there will never be revolution without organization and there is no organization to speak of. and frankly i don't believe there ever will be.


there will be organization, but this will come with anger. we will organize because there will be nothing left to do. there will be a mass revolution that will have no organization, and this will be quickly quelled by the government. but after the people see an unorganized revolution, they will open there eyes.

it won't be today, and it won't be this decade

But there WILL be a revolution, and i don't know about you, but when there is,

I will fight for it

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When 90% of the wealth is had by 2% of the people, you know the system is working.

Many people will think me an ass because of my views, but I feel that yours are mistaken. Our country is not based on providing everything for everyone. Most people mistake the purpose of the government. It is not to provide, but merely to protect the freedoms for each of us to provide for ourselves.

Those who cannot provide for themselves become impoverished. Those who can begin to provide for families. Those who can provide for their families + some become monetarily wealthy.

It is a system based on rewards for success, not the communistic mentality of everyone is equal.

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We've seen with the protests in San Francisco during the running of the Olympic torch that the motivation for public outcry is still present within US citizens. (Granted, San Francisco just loves a good ol' hoot-n-holler in the streets. They basically perfected the protest in America.)

Anyway, the fervor and passion needed for revolution is there, it's just not focused on internal issues. That's the problem we face as members of a global society. Information from all over the planet is readily available, thus people tend to get excited about global problems (human rights, genocide, starvation, pandemic disease) while overlooking dangers at their doorstep. This is why it's important to let people know how change in the US would be an integral part in a more holistic approach at fixing things globally, people would be in the streets tomorrow. (You can bet your ass I'd be one of them)

Great topic, wonderful discussion. This is why I love this forum!

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A good theme song for this thread.

QUOTE (Hookah_Bob3 @ Apr 11 2008, 11:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
When 90% of the wealth is had by 2% of the people, you know the system is working.

Many people will think me an ass because of my views, but I feel that yours are mistaken. Our country is not based on providing everything for everyone. Most people mistake the purpose of the government. It is not to provide, but merely to protect the freedoms for each of us to provide for ourselves.

Those who cannot provide for themselves become impoverished. Those who can begin to provide for families. Those who can provide for their families + some become monetarily wealthy.

It is a system based on rewards for success, not the communistic mentality of everyone is equal.


While I agree with this in theory. The practice has become somewhat difficult. Yes, there are methods that exist which enable people to further themselves even if they are homeless/unemployed/etc. These institutions are in vain if other (read ultra-capitalist) institutions attempt to interfere in order to increase their profit margin.

Now, that being said, do I believe that any revolution will truly solve our problems? Maybe for a year, maybe for a few years, yes. For a revolution of this sort to work, however, it must also crush the will of the people to better their own economic and social standing. That will is part of the American Way, however, and will be extremely hard to extinguish. Until no one wants to be better than the schmuck standing next to them any revolution is doomed to have itself repeated ad infinitum.

It's a good excuse to depopulate the world, though, and I'm all for that. We need another global war before we start losing our ability to feed even a handful of the people in this world.

--Edit--

Best Idea EVAR!

If you really want this revolution to happen so badly. Vote for McCain. It seems like that would be a good catalyst. I'm just tossing it out there, though. It might just make it worse, but I doubt a presidency of Barack or Hillary would cause a revolution. Hell, they might even throw it back further if they get their way in congress, but that's only a quick fix. Edited by Texico

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QUOTE (Bushbr @ Apr 11 2008, 09:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
it won't be today, and it won't be this decade

But there WILL be a revolution, and i don't know about you, but when there is,

I will fight for it

tongue.gif a collapse isn't the same thing as a revolution.

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QUOTE (gaia.plateau @ Apr 11 2008, 03:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Bushbr @ Apr 11 2008, 09:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
it won't be today, and it won't be this decade

But there WILL be a revolution, and i don't know about you, but when there is,

I will fight for it

tongue.gif a collapse isn't the same thing as a revolution.

+1

and heres what I have to say for this thread
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lwzqy8NXvWM

One of my favorite songs put to one of my favorite politicians

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Ah, yes, Lenin, the hero who was waiting at Russia's border ready to flee if anything went wrong. After receiving the news that all went well he made his grand debut. I love people's knowledge of historical myths. Too bad not many people are concerned with actual facts.

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QUOTE (Shakes @ Apr 11 2008, 09:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We've seen with the protests in San Francisco during the running of the Olympic torch that the motivation for public outcry is still present within US citizens. (Granted, San Francisco just loves a good ol' hoot-n-holler in the streets. They basically perfected the protest in America.)

Anyway, the fervor and passion needed for revolution is there, it's just not focused on internal issues. That's the problem we face as members of a global society. Information from all over the planet is readily available, thus people tend to get excited about global problems (human rights, genocide, starvation, pandemic disease) while overlooking dangers at their doorstep. This is why it's important to let people know how change in the US would be an integral part in a more holistic approach at fixing things globally, people would be in the streets tomorrow. (You can bet your ass I'd be one of them)

Great topic, wonderful discussion. This is why I love this forum!

Before China came in, Tibet was a slave state

The Llama class was in power, and the rural poor had nothing. NOTHING. At least with China they got running water and some semblence of a life. It's really like choosing between two evils.


Heh, I didn't realize I was so capitalist compared to the rest of this forum...

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It couldn't have been that bad if the peasantry is willing to protest alongside the monks to gain autonomy.

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QUOTE (MechAnt @ Apr 10 2008, 10:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The US is not that corrupt. Think about what other countries are going through. Zimbabwe, Colombia, Mexico, and many many more. Our corruption level compared to those countries is like a skinny little kid compared to a big ass UFC fighter. We have no right to bitch about this so called "corruption" that barely exists if at all in this country. Be grateful.



thats very true i was born in and grew up in israel and it is not much more if any more corrupt than the u.s. but when i was in costa rica it was a whole different story i saw police officers in tamarindo openly taking bribes and extorting business owners. the only thing that really bugs me about the u.s. is that they blatantly to the citizens Edited by NickReppinThe909

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This is a video that WILL open your eyes to the real truth about the world in America and how corrupt it truly is. The first part is on religion, so if your religious you may not want to watch it because it might offend you, but it is very interesting, the 2nd part is about 911 and the cover up, and the 3rd is on the secret society that REALLY controls the us and what truly happens in it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeZB2EsPqGE...feature=related Edited by cotsi95

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I'm all about the 911 truth movement, but did not care for Zeitgeist

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