Canadian Duties On Shisha Tobacco

[zagadka]

So I ordered some tobacco from smoking-hookah.com, the order came to $160+shipping and the guy also gave me a 10% discount for mentioning hookahforum.com. So I though to myself - this is not bad, of course there will be taxes and duties when the package enters Canada, but how much can it be?

I did search all over internet and found one on-line hookah site that had a very bizarre table with potential duties. It seemed a bit high, so I continued searching. Gov of Canada sites would only show me that "you can bring 200 cigarettes with you into Canada tax free and pay duties for anything extra", but none would mention how much extra that is.

I continued looking, and found a couple more documents, none of which had more than 20% tax rate. SO I thought - $160 order times 20% is not that much. Still cheaper than getting it in a store locally.

How surprised was I, when my package finally arrived and I was hit with a whopping $307 in duties (!!!!!).

For $160 order, of which tobacco products were only about $130-140. A $300 tax is more than 200%.

Now I have a dilemma - pay the $300 for a total of almost $500 for the entire order, or refuse the delivery and face 15% restocking fee on return and 2x shipping costs (I'm estimating this at $70).

Just be careful when ordering your flavour from overseas. It's not worth it - it's cheaper to go to a local store and just getting the stuff there. Or ordering it from a US based store and shipping it within the US and then just come and pick it up from somewhere like usaddressinc.com or similar services across the US.

ARGHHH.

[Johnny_D]

Just order it from a good vendor who will work with you to ensure your package arrives....... without customs interference.

JD

[booya]

what province are you in? tobacco tax varies by province i beleive...

[chinamon]

taxes on a carton of 200 cigarettes would be different than a 250g box of shisha.
if i remember correctly, someone here said a while ago that its about $17 duties per 250g shisha but i cannot verify that.
i know when i went to buffalo and PA for a few hours and stopped off at the dutyfree on my way back to canada and picked up two cartons of cigarettes, i got pulled over by customs. they wanted to tax me nearly $40 per carton but quickly turned their attention to our trunk full of fireworks and firecrackers. lol.

[zagadka]

I'm in Ontario.

So upsetting. Sending it back seems cheaper, than accepting it. But I don't know when I'd be able to go to the states next time and mailing it again from a different vendor seems risky.

I haven't seen the declaration card yet, maybe something is off on there. I don't mind paying tax, it's just that 200% seems very excessive.

Anyone had similar experience? Or perhaps someone knows where you could find accurate tax rates for these kind of shipments?

[RayVer]

wow...as much as I love hookah I wouldn't pay that

[zagadka]

wow...as much as I love hookah I wouldn't pay that

I agree, but my bf says heck with it - just pay. You learn from your mistakes. Next time I'd take a different route.

almost $500 for the order. I just hope it's good tobacco. At least there is a lot of it (about 6 500gr cartons and about 20 50gr packages).

[chinamon]

all it takes is a little search on google....

from the canadian border services agency website...

Ottawa, October 1, 2001... The Canada Customs and Revenue Agency announced that changes are coming into effect today for travellers who include tobacco products in their personal exemption entitlements.

A new duty now applies on previously exempted quantities of tobacco products. This new duty applies to personal exemptions claimed by Canadian residents, immigrants coming to settle in Canada and former residents who are returning permanently to Canada.

This duty does not apply to products marked: CANADA - DUTY PAID. DROIT ACQUITTÉ

The new rates for products without this mark are as follows:

Cigarettes: $10.00 per carton of 200
Tobacco sticks: $7.00 per carton of 200
Loose tobacco: $6.00 per 200 grams

this is dated 2001 and im sure duties have changes since then. the cost of a pack of cigarettes have gone up since then.

here is the source... http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/media/release-c...ottawa-eng.html

[zagadka]

here is the source... http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/media/release-c...ottawa-eng.html

I've been to all of these sites. Most of them only deal with tobacco products you bring with you. I have only seen one, that deals with shipping tobacco to Canada, and I think it was talking about commercial shipments, since none of the rate were more than 14%+GST (for a total of 20%).



Anyways, I hope someone can learn from my mistakes and do something different, something smarter.

[Ooph]

Can I ask what all you purchased?

[zagadka]

Can I ask what all you purchased?

6 cartons of 500gr each x $20 each (roughly) one 175gr package, and 15 - 50gr samplers. plus a few accessories (for about $20 or so). for a total of $160+shipping (all in US$). the $307 duties is in CA$.

[chinamon]

i just emailed the CBSA in regards to tobacco duties and im waiting for a reply.

[zagadka]

i just emailed the CBSA in regards to tobacco duties and im waiting for a reply.

That would be great if they get back to you and you post the reply here. I only had a phone number for the border agency, but didn't have time to call and hear all those automated messages. Didn't think of sending them an e-mail though.

I wonder what they'd tell you.

[booya]

wow...as much as I love hookah I wouldn't pay that

this is from the gov of ontario website. they charge by gram and there is no duty free exemption because its imported and not carried into the country on you.

as far as cigerettes are concerned, health canada places a fee on the smokes when they come in above and outside of any duty you have to pay...


Regulation to Increase Tobacco Tax Rates
On January 31, 2006, the Minister of Finance announced an increase in tobacco tax rates as of 12:01 a.m., February 1, 2006. The increase was implemented by a regulation made by the Minister under the Tobacco Tax Act.

As of February 1, 2006, Ontario's tax rates for cigarettes and cut tobacco increased from 11.725 cents to 12.35 cents per cigarette and from 11.725 cents to 12.35 cents per gram of cut tobacco. The tax rate for cigars remains unchanged at 56.6% of the taxable price. The following is a summary of the old and new rates:

New RateOld Rate IncreaseCigarettes
Per cigarette/cigarette stick $0.1235
Per Gram or Part Gram of Coarse/Fine Cut, Snuff, Chewing Tobacco and Raw Leaf Tobacco$0.1235$0.11725
Effective Date of Rate Increases
The tobacco tax rate increases are effective February 1, 2006. Edited November 15, 2007 by booya

[zagadka]

New RateOld Rate IncreaseCigarettes
Per cigarette/cigarette stick $0.1235$0.11725$0.00625Cut Tobacco
Per Gram or Part Gram of Coarse/Fine Cut, Snuff, Chewing Tobacco and Raw Leaf Tobacco$0.1235$0.11725$0.00625Cigars56.6%
of taxable price56.6%
of taxable priceno change
Effective Date of Rate Increases
The tobacco tax rate increases are effective February 1, 2006.

;(. Edited November 15, 2007 by zagadka

[chinamon]

and from 11.725 cents to 12.35 cents per gram of cut tobacco

250g * $0.1235 = $30.88 in taxes alone.
how many grams of tobacco did you purchase again? Edited November 15, 2007 by chinamon

[booya]

wow...as much as I love hookah I wouldn't pay that

New RateOld Rate IncreaseCigarettes
Per cigarette/cigarette stick $0.1235$0.11725$0.00625Cut Tobacco
Per Gram or Part Gram of Coarse/Fine Cut, Snuff, Chewing Tobacco and Raw Leaf Tobacco$0.1235$0.11725$0.00625Cigars56.6%
of taxable price56.6%
of taxable priceno change
Effective Date of Rate Increases
The tobacco tax rate increases are effective February 1, 2006.

doesn't explain the $300 tax on a $160 order (of which only $140 was of tobacco nature).

you ordered 3935 grams of tobacco at a tax rate of $0.1235 = $485.97 in duties... you got off easy!

[zagadka]

you ordered 3935 grams of tobacco at a tax rate of $0.1235 = $485.97 in duties... you got off easy!

if you look at it this way - definitely.

But had I known, I'd order from the states and just drive to Buffalo to pick it up. arghh.

[booya]

you ordered 3935 grams of tobacco at a tax rate of $0.1235 = $485.97 in duties... you got off easy!

if you look at it this way - definitely.

But had I known, I'd order from the states and just drive to Buffalo to pick it up. arghh.

ya, i know... i got an order coming in and i'm not looking forward to the fees either. but i've priced it in and it costs the same for me to order it as it does to buy it here (calgary) and i get a better selection online...

[zagadka]

ya, i know... i got an order coming in and i'm not looking forward to the fees either. but i've priced it in and it costs the same for me to order it as it does to buy it here (calgary) and i get a better selection online...

I guess quality and selection is a huge factor.

In Toronto though, you could buy the same 50gr molasses box for $5 or you can get it for $9. depending on where u go. SO paying $9 for the same thing online is not that bad I guess.

I wanted to save though, oh well. Next time, I'm driving to the states. The duties-savings would even cover my hotel if I decided to stay overnight. LOL.

[booya]

ya, i know... i got an order coming in and i'm not looking forward to the fees either. but i've priced it in and it costs the same for me to order it as it does to buy it here (calgary) and i get a better selection online...

I guess quality and selection is a huge factor.

In Toronto though, you could buy the same 50gr molasses box for $5 or you can get it for $9. depending on where u go. SO paying $9 for the same thing online is not that bad I guess.

I wanted to save though, oh well. Next time, I'm driving to the states. The duties-savings would even cover my hotel if I decided to stay overnight. LOL.

hehe, ya there are issues with that too.... see you can only bring back 200 grams of cut tobacco duty free. and you'd have to satisfy the minimum travel time away to qualify. the restyou'd have to smuggle across and personally i'd hate to see my shisha get taken away because i didn't claim it and got caught.

i'm going to LV later this month and will probably buy some and ship it to my self and see if it gets across....

[zagadka]

hehe, ya there are issues with that too.... see you can only bring back 200 grams of cut tobacco duty free. and you'd have to satisfy the minimum travel time away to qualify. the restyou'd have to smuggle across and personally i'd hate to see my shisha get taken away because i didn't claim it and got caught.

i'm going to LV later this month and will probably buy some and ship it to my self and see if it gets across....

they rarely check, and if they do find something u didn't declare - they'd just ask you to pay tax on it and perhaps put something in your file so you get checked more often.

however, i never abuse the system, and if you take 3 people with you there - you could bring 200grx3 legally, plus if you buy a bit extra, customs usually pretend they diodn't hear. Unless of course, you are bringing back 2 boxes full of stuff.

it's a risk. but $300....arghh. I just hope it's good shisha.



On a different note - what are good online stores that ship from the US (and not the middle east)?

[chinamon]

In Toronto though, you could buy the same 50gr molasses box for $5 or you can get it for $9. depending on where u go. SO paying $9 for the same thing online is not that bad I guess.

I wanted to save though, oh well. Next time, I'm driving to the states. The duties-savings would even cover my hotel if I decided to stay overnight. LOL.

depends on who you buy from in toronto. if you buy from stores that sell under the table then its $5 for 50g of nakhla.
if you go to a legit store like nasr foods then a 50g box will cost you about $13 for nakhla ($14-15 for 50g al fakher grape).

ive ordered from the states a few times for tobacco and never got nailed for duties. i keep my orders small (3 or 4 tubs of 250g at a time) and i only order from certain vendors. ordering from these vendors doesnt guarantee that i wont get nailed for duties but it does lessen the chance.

[chinamon]

On a different note - what are good online stores that ship from the US (and not the middle east)?

for tobacco, mnhookah.com and alfakheronline.com
ive never had any problems with them.

[booya]

hehe, ya there are issues with that too.... see you can only bring back 200 grams of cut tobacco duty free. and you'd have to satisfy the minimum travel time away to qualify. the restyou'd have to smuggle across and personally i'd hate to see my shisha get taken away because i didn't claim it and got caught.

i'm going to LV later this month and will probably buy some and ship it to my self and see if it gets across....

they rarely check, and if they do find something u didn't declare - they'd just ask you to pay tax on it and perhaps put something in your file so you get checked more often.

however, i never abuse the system, and if you take 3 people with you there - you could bring 200grx3 legally, plus if you buy a bit extra, customs usually pretend they diodn't hear. Unless of course, you are bringing back 2 boxes full of stuff.

it's a risk. but $300....arghh. I just hope it's good shisha.



On a different note - what are good online stores that ship from the US (and not the middle east)?

hookah-shisha.com is the only one i've used, just cuz they are so effing cool! i tihnk hookah company is pretty much the only company that has outright said no to canadian orders, which sucks cuz they have nice stuff...

but h-s is good, and their shipping rate is good as well. try and stay away from companies that use fedex or ups... you get your stuff faster but they have in house customs brokers that will ding you for everything plus the brokerage fee. so that means you WILL more then likely pay duty.