The Big Lie

[amnite]

The WHO and ASH reports

Ok, let me start off, I read the WHO report. They claim that they have done full research in to the effects of shisha. This was a while back. At that time I thought WTF shisha is really bad. Up until last night I allways thought a 30-40 mins session was between 14 - 200 cigerettes. There are 2 reports that claim this.

Last night I read from this brilliant website. I'll put down what I learnt...

"A critique of the WHO TobReg's "Advisory Note" report entitled: "Waterpipe tobacco smoking: health effects, research needs and recommended actions by regulators"

http://www.jnrbm.com/content/5/1/17

I recommend you read from this website... Read the original WHO report (http://www.who.int/tobacco/global_interact...ation_Final.pdf I think this is the report they made) and then read from the link above.. It seems as if there are plenty of mistakes, errors and misleading points from the WHO report

I have found another article

"One Hookah Would Equal 200 Cigarettes and European "Colonialism" (sic !) Would Now
Be the Cause of the Hookah (Shisha, Narghile) Catastrophe ?"

http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dgbz283m_18hqr2kf

"He concludes that "these "experts" are actually 200 times more dangerous than hookahs because they would be dangerous for science and, beyond, for public health"

I recommend you read from this website.. read the original ASH report and then read from the link above.. This article fights back

Anyway it seems as if the WHO organisation were paid to do there false research... They done this for money and talked a load of shit... And most of all the MEDIA has picked up a lot from these reports

A quote from the website..
"We are now convinced, out of experience, that a "scientific truth" (e.g., 1 Hookah Equals 200 or 40 Cigarettes) may be a lie repeated again and again a 1000 times (particularly with the help of the mass media)."

OK now to back that quote up... 10news.com

"
COLUMNIST (Jermaine Ong): "Although many people said they believe that the water in the hookah filters out all of the "bad stuff" in the tobacco smoke, it is quite the opposite, according to University of California, San Diego tobacco researcher Dr. David Burns."

COMMENTS BY OBSERVATORY ON HOOKAH AND HEALTH: He is also, above all, and apparently, a member of the expert team (TobReg) who supervised and endorsed the ERRONEOUS WHO report on Water pipe smoking
"

More of this report and the truth can be found here "http://narghile.blogspot.com/2007/03/exper...e-comeback.html"

It seems as if WHO (World Health Organisation) are behind all this... It doesnt end here.. the website uncovers a lot more articles that WHO have been misleading... I will provide later on in this thread

UK Shisha Cafes

Now to the end of my thread.. I live in the UK.. AND WHAT MAKES ME ANGRY IS THAT... Edgeware road popular among the arabs and popular for shisha.. not only edgeware there are (oops "were") thoasands shisha cafes that got closed down... Now I have been following a petition weeks ago that was to exempt shisha from the ban in England... The petition got nearly 10,000 signitures yet it failed..

After Tony Blair left and Gordon Brown came in to power in the UK.. He got new MP's including a new health MP.. There was a emergency meeting to exempt it but GUESS WHAT

" Until now, the health ministry has been firm. "There will be no exemption for the shisha," a spokeswoman said."

" The health authorities are relying mainly on a World Health Organisation study from 2005 which said: "Using a water pipe to smoke tobacco poses a serious potential health hazard to smokers and others to the smoke emitted."

RELYING ON THE FALSE REPORT.... This is the reason your local shisha cafes were closed down in England

Source: http://www.medindia.net/news/Shisha-Owners...and-22914-2.htm

"Ban On Hookah Smoking Should Stay, Say Doctors"

Docters claim all the health effects of shisha but WITH NO PROOF except of the 2 so called major reports by ASH and WHO...

Source: http://www.lse.co.uk/ShowStory.asp?story=J...tay_say_doctors

I LEARNT ALL THIS FROM THIS WEBSITE:
http://narghile.blogspot.com/ *There is plenty more articles here and it is constantly updated*
http://www.sacrednarghile.com/en/index.php *This is another website revealing information about hookah*
http://www.sacrednarghile.com/en/health.php *The true health effects, facts & tips for smoking shisha most safe as possible*

It seems as if theres a plot to get shisha out and degrade its reputation, like the website states.. These anti-tobacco people are desperete for money and lie to get there way around.. These experts are 200 times worser than hookahs... A hookah session maybe equal to a couple of cigerettes but no more than 10 and if you smoke it with your friends you know its way less...

If you smoke it once a week it shudn't be that bad! Shisha is bad for you but these health people are over reacting.

Carbon Monoxide

I know all you people out there that smoke with charcoals.. it says on the Scared Narghile health website as Tip & on the crictical report against WHO...

"Ideally, an electrical resistance would drastically reduce the amount of this dangerous gas. However, if you are not in possession of such a device, what you can do is:"

Where do I find this electrical resistance thing?

Anyway Thanks For Reading my article... I hope you enjoyed it Edited July 16, 2007 by amnite

[SafeSearchOff]

i didnt read your whole article, but i read the first couple parts.

How much carbon monoxide, nic, etc really cant be determined by a generalization of "x amount of cigarettes" per session.

If your using a washed shisha brand, which has super low levels of nic and all those other bad things, its not going to be too bad, maybe "2 cigarettes", probably not even.

If you smoke a high nic level tobbacco (tangiers >.<, nakhla) I'd call it "5-6 cigarettes"


Some one correct me if I'm wrong, im no scientist, or professional.

[PerznPerversion]

Heres what the quote really says according to the online article. " Shisha smokers inhale up to 200 times more smoke in a single shisha session that they would from a cigarette." it says you INAHLE more than 200 times more smoke.. In that matter i believe its COMPLETELY true in my opinion at least. http://www.ash.org.uk/html/press/070327.html came from this article..

I only brought this up because people cant read or something and they comprehend it saying its worst than 200 cigerattes. Maybe more smoke is more unhealthy for you? maybe thats why you equate it being worst, but then again we would have to do a study about this :-D Edited July 15, 2007 by yashman19

[amnite]

oh sorry for my mistake but please read that website http://narghile.blogspot.com/ this guy explains everything much more clearer than me..... ofcourse smoke is bad for you anything other than oxygen is bad for you lol but in my opinion i'd say these health people are over reacting...

I'm sure the statement I made about the WHO organisation is correct. The guy who attacked back at the ASH organisation was a completely different person but I found his link on the narghile website Edited July 14, 2007 by amnite

[PerznPerversion]

oh sorry for my mistake but please read that website http://narghile.blogspot.com/ this guy explains everything much more clearer than me.....

it wasnt about u, it was the site that u got it from cuz it really did say that.. but then i saw the source and it said otherwise =-)

[amnite]

oh ok.. yh "SafeSearchOff" how do I know that I am using washed or unwashed molasses.. how do I know the levels of nic.. I am using Nakhla tobacco at the moment... I know I know its rubbish but I will switch to Al fakhar some other time

Sorry I dont know about the right molasses because I just started shisha at home, I used to do it at the cafes until they closed down. Edited July 14, 2007 by amnite

[*HOT&SMOKING*]

But also I can't see how they can compare shisha which is washed tobacco and ciggaretes which is not!!!
(correct me if what i said is wrong)

-H&S

[PerznPerversion]

But also I can't see how they can compare shisha which is washed tobacco and ciggaretes which is not!!!
(correct me if what i said is wrong)

-H&S

i dont believe all shisha is washed.

[deltr]

Yeah Romman and Layalina isn't washed. They claim 0.5% nicotine, as compared to Al Fakhar, which claims 0.05%. But, addiction factor aside, nicotine in itself causes no longterm harm to the body. It's just a lifetime of forced smoking caused by a nicotine addiction is the issue. I'm okay with smoking shisha for the time being because I don't smoke cigarettes and over the past six months of smoking, I have developed no signs of dependency. There was even a month or two where I just stopped cause it was boring, haha.

Besides, to get tar and other carcinogens into our body, the shisha must burn. I don't know about you, but I never see white ash in my bowl when i'm done. It's just black dry shisha. Take SoEX for example. It's just shredded sugar cane with flavoring. You smoke it and you get TONS of smoke but no tar or nicotine. Just because it's smoke doesn't mean you're inhaling all the 200+ same additives that are in every cigarette. Generalizations such as that make it very annoying being a shisha smoker. I'm always schooling people that know no better than to think I am smoking the tobacco from 10 cigarettes that I put into a bowl.

[jonny_lech]

For a brief period, I smoked ciggs and cloves. Now these days, I'll have maybe 1 or 2 a week; always when I'm at a bar with friends who are smoking. But I will tell you, about two months ago, I picked up a pack of Marlboro Reds. I smoked maybe half the pack that night? My throat felt awful. It had a definite physical effect. But I smoke hookah almost daily. I rarely feel that same effect. For that reason, I have a hard time buying that it's on the level of 200 ciggs. Anyone who's ever smoked ciggs knows that if you go and smoke too many too quickly, you'll feel like ass. Smoking the equivalent to 200 ciggs would just flat out beat you down. I know 'how it makes me feel' isn't terribly scientific, but come on. I'm not saying shisha is healthy, but think of your own objective experiences.

[Furio]

Smoking is smoking. I would say that 200 cigs per session is modest (at least when I smoke ). This does not mean that the smoke is as harmful as 200 (which someone rightly pointed out above that this has been miss represented in the media) but it is 100% true that you take the same about in.

[tkato]

I Never belived anything that this companys say... they are biosed.
anyway, i belive that they lie alot and act out of good will and anything but im not stupid, i know that hookah isn't good for you.
anyway no real tests have never been made on hookahs effects.

[amnite]

You know its funny how the WHO report dont know what there talking about, it seems they have used old research.. I mean by this like those old charcoals dat produce high levels of carbon monoxide..

You know I bet u they tested on BBQ charcoal just to boost there research...

They also never mension what brands they tested on.. Different brands contain different amounts of tobacco, nicotine & tar.. seems like a first look in there report looks convincin but yet there is too little research Edited July 14, 2007 by amnite

[jonny_lech]

I don't think I've *ever* seen a shisha packaging that claimed anything other than 0% tar. And isn't tar half of what makes ciggs bad in the first place? Isn't that the stuff that blackens your lungs?

[Whodat1004]

I don't think I've *ever* seen a shisha packaging that claimed anything other than 0% tar. And isn't tar half of what makes ciggs bad in the first place? Isn't that the stuff that blackens your lungs?

The package says that because the company does not add tar.

[mrmonk7663]

It's kind of funny. I was at a local Arabic place eating this afternoon. I was thinking about setting my hookah up outside. I asked one of the cafe workers whom I talk with alot if he wanted to smoke the Arglie. He promptly said no no its very bad, its equal to 4 packs of cigarettes for just one bowl. I smiled and said, oh ok. I smiled because I see him everytime I go puffing away on cigarettes, which he has convinced himself is fine, but Argile is bad. Is there more smoke with Argile, obviously, does our shisha contain all the freaking crap cigarrettes do, hell no, and we don't need to do a well funded study to prove this. Cigarrettes have so many added chemicals in them, the shisha doesn't. Are they both bad, sure, probally so. Was it bad for me when I used to fight fires with the fire department...haha i'm pretty sure I inhaled more smoke doing that than ever possible with cigarrettes or shisha. Anyway, just smoke and have fun. The air is polluted with so many carnicogens from factories cars, etc etc. Our water supplies are tainted with all the crap dumped into them. Carcinogens are everywhere, all around us. We all know this. If you like smoking, then smoke. If you are worried about the ill health effects of the shisha, then don't smoke. Study after study can so its harmful or its not that harmful, but it doesn't really matter. Every individual body reacts different to carcinogens and pollutants. Some people can smoke from age 10 till the day they die at 95, with no ill effects. Others die at a young age from ill effects. Your genetic makeup is the biggest determining factor in all of this. Peace.

Mike

[amnite]

yep no one believed me when I said last year that shisha was going to be banned until the month before the ban all shisha cafe owners realised that they had to close down.. but the health officials said it was too late to be exempted...

Well guess what shishas reputation is degrading rapidly and these anti tobacco people are talking rubbish.. the media is now emphasising there points... which is now resulting in talks n countrys especially in the western world to completely ban shisha.. thats right take it underground...no more shisha... believe me or not you will be stunned when it happens until some1 does something about it

The american lung association are already on there mission towards it...
"AN EMERGING DEADLY TREND:WATERPIPE TOBACCO USE"
http://www.lungusa2.org/embargo/slati/Tren..._Waterpipes.pdf
It makes me laugh look at there chart on the bottom I bet you they will try and take down the cafes from those states

Chek it out.. one of the sources was from WHO again
"World Health Organization. WHO Advisory Note: "Waterpipe
Tobacco Smoking: Health Effects, Research Needs and
Recommended Actions by Regulators," WHO 2005." same false report lolll Edited July 15, 2007 by amnite

[Allia22]

Oh god, not the WHO again... That thread stayed up for a good month last time. Can't they go work on AIDS in Africa instead of trying to ruin our lives?

[mgcsinc]

Before people reject all research about hookah health based on methodology, they should read the methodology:

http://www.hookahforum.com/index.php?act=f...&pid=102867

Further, let me deconstruct some (paraphrased) arguments:

1. "I don't feel bad after I smoke hookah, but I do after I smoke cigarettes" - All this says is that the shisha is less abrasive to your lungs. In the first half of the century, it was common for cigarette brands to advertise that their brand was preferred by doctors because it was less abrasive to smoke. Unfortunately, the way that something makes you feel when you smoke it says absolutely nothing about it's carcinogenicity, and is thus a completely useless statistic.

2. When cigarette companies label tar on their packages, it refers to the amount of particulate matter produced by the cigarette when smoked using a particular FDA or FTC protocol. If shisha companies had to follow the same labeling restrictions, the tar counts on their products would be through the roof. The following is not conjecture, but rather, fact:

• the word 'tar' has nothing to do with what cigarette companies add to cigarettes. It's fun to think that shisha is much less dangerous for you because there is nothing added, but it's just a fantasy.
• naturally occuring substances can cause cancer, and in the case of tobacco, they do
• the smoke from shisha contains copius amounts of 'tar', and it has not yet been demonstrated how this compares with cigarette smoke in terms of carcinogenicity.

3. The WHO is not a first-hand scientific organization. They do not conduct scientific studies about hookah smoking. Scientists would not, generally, cite WHO reports as evidence of something in a paper. Likewise, it is silly to argue against WHO reports. Rather, you should take the time to locate the original research on which these reports are based, and read them. You may find that you're surprised by how carefully some of this research is conducted.

[amnite]

so basically to put in easier terms.. how many cigerettes am I smoking if I smoke a 40 mins session of an Al Fakher branded molasses, 3 kings charcoal along with a standard shisha with foil covering... smoking with friends... a rough estimate or is it not possible to tell... i am not sure how many puffs but lets say an estimate

Looking at that research it has been critised before that smoking machine taking continous puffs is unfair testing read from narghiles website

Flavour
Double Apple flavour by Adel El-Ibiary & Co., Egypt
Charcoal
Three Kings

Table 3
Heavy metals identified in argileh smoke condensate of a standard
100-puff smoking session (ng)

Hookah
Arsenic 165
Beryllium 65
Nickel 990
Cobalt 70
Chromium 1340
Lead 6870

Cigarette
Arsenic 40–120
Beryllium 300
Nickel ND–600
Cobalt 0.13–0.2
Chromium 4–70
Lead 34–85
Experiment: http://webfea-lb.fea.aub.edu.lb/aerosol/do...gilehpaper1.pdf

How harmful are they all?

I havent smoked hookah for months due to the research they found.. I've got one at home and ordered some japanese coals in which people in this forum and websites claim to have lower levels of carbon monoxide.. Im jus thinking about the levels of tar in shisha... if i smoke soex (no tar, no nic, no tobacco) it shoundnt be too bad right?

What about glass phunnels, I heard the foil can be a cause to the amounts of metals?

Lead Poisoning... Chances are unlikely it will lead to poisoning but still its good to know the symptoms and effects
http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/l/lead_poisoning/symptoms.htm Edited July 16, 2007 by amnite

[dcrooksjr]

I'm skeptical about the research concerning hookah. I fully under stand its bad. But when I consider how the anti-tobacco movement thought they were winning then along comes the hookah, I'm firmly of the opinion that they doctured the reasearch to make it seem worse than it really is. I use the culture that the hookah comes from as an example based on moderation they have lower cancer than with cigarette smokers. Cigarette smokers tend to chain smoke one after the other, but If you smoke a bowl a week. Yes you will have a higher cancer risk than a non-smoker, but I also think that you'll have less risk than a cigarette smoker who smokes a pack or two a day.

[dcrooksjr]

I just found an article that says that their has not been enough proper research on the hookah to determine 100% good or bad.
http://hookahviews.com/health.php

[*HOT&SMOKING*]

But also I can't see how they can compare shisha which is washed tobacco and ciggaretes which is not!!!
(correct me if what i said is wrong)

-H&S

i dont believe all shisha is washed.

OBVIOUSLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am just saying that some is " Apparently " so they can't really compare it!!! (correct ,e if i am wrong i am just speculating!!!)

-H&S

[ezie]

I have been reading this type of article so much that i really don't give a damn anymore. It's up to us to make the choice of smoking or not.

'If you don't take the risk, you've wasted your soul'

So if you want to smoke hookah than go ahead smoke it if you think it's bad for your health, it is get over it. Peace

[mgcsinc]

so basically to put in easier terms.. how many cigerettes am I smoking if I smoke a 40 mins session of an Al Fakher branded molasses, 3 kings charcoal along with a standard shisha with foil covering... smoking with friends... a rough estimate or is it not possible to tell... i am not sure how many puffs but lets say an estimate

Looking at that research it has been critised before that smoking machine taking continous puffs is unfair testing read from narghiles website

1. The question of cigarette equivalence (how many cigs am I smoking if I do XYZ) is loaded, because hookah is inherently different. The question has to be asked differently, in terms of specific types of effects. I'd say that given the details that you mention, assuming you are smoking with two other people, you are getting (estimates):

• 50 cigarettes worth of inhaled smoke
• 5 cigarettes worth of 'tar'
• 1/3 a cigarette worth of nicotine (assuming unwashed tobacco)
• 1-2 cigarettes worth of blood nicotine increase
• less than 1 cigarette worth of carciongenicity (cancer potential)

2. There is absolutely no reason to think that Soex or other herbal shishas are less dangerous (in terms of negative health outcomes, not addictive potential).

3. There is no such thing as a plant that can be smoked without producing 'tar'.

4. The machines used to simulate smoking hookah in some studies (including the one I'm always linking to) replicate real-world smoking patterns very well. They are not the continuous smoking machines of yesteryear. Websites that criticize methodologies without reading them - assuming that the old criticisms of cigarette research are the same here - are doing a great disservice to people reading them and to the scientists that spent many man hours developing these methods.