News: Yahoo Ppc Forbids All "hookah" Sites!

[former vendor 2]

Although I understand that this post and this issue mostly affects hookah site owners it also addresses a major mis-perception among the general public about hookahs and their use. Over the weekend all of our PPC (pay per click) advertisements at Yahoo were taken down and permanently removed; as were many of our competitors, and eventually all hookah site advertisements will be taken down forever.

When I called Yahoo to ask as to why they have done this I was basically told that they have decided that the general (American) publics perception is that hookahs are essentially "bongs" and are mostly used to smoke drugs and not tobacco. Yahoo therefore does not want to associate or accept money from any "drug related site" and in particular will not allow the paid advertisements for such sites.

To which I replied that this shows a serious lack of investigation and understanding into the hookah industry. If Yahoo had done any investigation into our industry they would have clearly seen that any "drug" references of any kind are dealt with quickly and harshly and are totally forbidden on all hookah forums, blogs and every hookah retail site I've ever seen.

Not to mention how seriously illogical Yahoo's position is on this issue. If we are to use Yahoo's logic, then they should also forbid all hardware stores from advertising as they surely sell far more products that can and are being used for illegal drug purposes. In addition they should also forbid all pharmacies from advertising since cold medicine can and is used in the production of illegal drugs. But of course they don't do this as those two industries alone represent many millions of advertising dollars to Yahoo. None the less my point is made, it's an illogical position to hold.

Not to mention that fact that basing this illogical position on what they perceive to be the "publics perception" seems ridiculous to me. First off did they do an American national survey on the "publics perception" of hookahs? If not then where are they getting their information from? And what about other countries like Canada, UK, Europe and the rest of the Western world where Yahoo advertises? These countries are definitely not as conservative as Americans and do not hold such conservative views on hookah pipes or drugs. So don't these countries have a right to see hookah advertisements?

As a Canadian myself, I know my country does not hold this "perception" of hookahs, and if they did they wouldn't care. And we all know that Europe doesn't care so why block 330 million potential European customers from seeing our ads?

[MechAnt]

THAT IS RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We need to start a petition RIGHT NOW. We can't stand for such a large corporation to demean our activity of choice!

[Bulldog_916]

Where do I sign?

[cabanapatio]

wow completely unnecessary!

[Canon]

BOYCOTT YAHOO GO TO GOOGLE!!!
i use Google anyways. i think everyone should, does Google allow advertisements?

[former vendor 2]

THAT IS RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We need to start a petition RIGHT NOW. We can't stand for such a large corporation to demean our activity of choice!

It's funny you mention a petition because I warned the Yahoo rep that they would likely receive a tremendous amount of "flack" for their decision due to it's lack of merit.

Google's position is far more logical and "easier to swallow". They do not allow anyone to advertise who sells tobacco or tobacco related products. Very simple and logical. Google is basing their position on a simple fact; we do sell tobacco and we do sell tobacco related products, and not on "perception" which is intangible and suspect.

Yahoo is essentially guessing what they believe most American's think of when they think "hookah", and Yahoo's "guess" couldn't be more wrong in my opinion. That being said I'm not an American; I'm a Canadian, so I can't speak for you Americans. So then let me ask the question; in your opinion is the general American public opinion that hookahs are used for drugs or for tobacco?

[Canon]

when my mom found out i smoke hookah she did research and said its bad for me because its related to opium somehow. as far as related to drugs, almost anything can be used for drugs. if yahoo is afraid of advertising things that COULD be used for drugs then they need to ban a lot more then hookahs Edited November 13, 2007 by Canon

[Johnny_D]

Thanks to HookahHub for posting this.

Firstly it re-in forces the forum's position of certain discussions.

secondly [and more importantly] it shows the massive problem with hookah 'PR'.

I would be inclined to ensure a few prominent members of the middle eastern communties are made aware of this. It is tantamount to accusing them all of being [not sure of the right word without breaking our own rules] xxx

JD

[Sariél]

This topic violates the "no drugs" policy of this board. Which is why I think any zero tolerance policy is shortsighted and stupid.

[former vendor 2]

This topic violates the "no drugs" policy of this board. Which is why I think any zero tolerance policy is shortsighted and stupid.

I couldn't agree more! This post is a perfect example that there should always be exceptions to every rule.

[Geiseric]

While I agree, I'm not going to add anything to that string of thought, for fear of the ban hammer (shudder).

But regardless of how annoying and foolish yahoo's policy is, they are within their rights to discriminate in any way they would like. Stupid, it is, though. I find it amusing that they so fear the wrath of conservative Americans and the horrifying drug affiliations that they are willing to throw away profit. Edited November 13, 2007 by Geiseric

[laxstriker52]

this is appalling first no advertisements then bills designed to ban all hookahs period. i agree with the petition.

[mushrat]

HH: your unhappyness with our anti drug policy has been noted.

As for complaining about Yahoo not letting you advertise anymore and whatever bs reason they give, I'd say it's a relitivly minor issue compared to such issues as Yahoo releasing personal info to the chinese Gov't that had led the the arrest of political dissidents for instance. They don't want you business, go someplace to advertise. You can't really think Yahoo Inc. will give a flying rats arse what a few dozen or even a few hundred hookah site, retailers, and users thing of their business practices do you? They have already decided the income is worth losing, and i doubt anything we do will change that. But i'll sign your petition on general principles that thats a crappy reason to stop accepting the advertisements. Since Yahoo's phone numbers are notoriously had to come by, why don't you post the number and names of the people you talked to and we'll all give them a few choice words just to make ourselves feel better.

[mushrat]

HH: your unhappyness with our anti drug policy has been noted.

As for complaining about Yahoo not letting you advertise anymore and whatever bs reason they give, I'd say it's a relitivly minor issue compared to such issues as Yahoo releasing personal info to the chinese Gov't that had led the the arrest of political dissidents for instance. They don't want you business, go someplace to advertise. You can't really think Yahoo Inc. will give a flying rats arse what a few dozen or even a few hundred hookah site, retailers, and users thing of their business practices do you? They have already decided the income is worth losing, and i doubt anything we do will change that. But i'll sign your petition on general principles that thats a crappy reason to stop accepting the advertisements. Since Yahoo's phone numbers are notoriously had to come by, why don't you post the number and names of the people you talked to and we'll all give them a few choice words just to make ourselves feel better.

Oh and for the record, from what i have seen, the general public DOES have that view.

[Bulldog_916]

I find conservative America to be a little hypocritical. They were all young once, they all did something immoral whether it be illegal or just immoral. It's funny to see a real socially conservative guy's life ruined cuz he asked for a little service from a guy in the bathroom of an airline.

I think you might have found just a really bad PR person. Yahoo's policy is probably similar to Google's but they didnt put it across that way. Even so, I still wanna put my name on the petition.

[Kathrynx]

I'm signing that petition, and I know all my friends would as well here.

[former vendor 2]

HH: your unhappyness with our anti drug policy has been noted.

Mushrat this is not what I said at all. I simply agreed with "Sariél" when he; not I, stated that all rules require exceptions. As for this forum's "anti drug policy" I "happily" agree and support it as long as it allows for logical and reasonable exceptions; for which I feel this topic falls under, would you not agree Mushrat?

[PirateNinja415]

I am also fustrated with how most people connect hookah to drugs. I was looking through NYU's housing guidelines, and under illigal substances it listed having a hookah as paraphernalia. I think over 20% of the student body smokes cigarettes here, so i really don't feel that hookah should be discriminated against like this. I would fully support this petition. I would expect yahoo to be a little bit more informed about a topic like this.

[gaia.plateau]

Is it just that Yahoo is perceiving hookah as being connected with drugs, or could they also be (correctly) perceiving it as being connected with Islam?

I don't think there is nearly as much trepidation or discrimination up here in Canada, but international news mediums do with increasing frequency echo the bs term "Islamo-Fascist Conspiracy".

Does anyone know who the owners of Yahoo are? If Rupert Murdoch is involved then I think my point is not only valid, but paramount

[shisha fan]

i don`t think the 10 people that still use yahoo have ever heard of a hookah anyway.

[Ooph]

Is it just that Yahoo is perceiving hookah as being connected with drugs, or could they also be (correctly) perceiving it as being connected with Islam?

I don't think there is nearly as much trepidation or discrimination up here in Canada, but international news mediums do with increasing frequency echo the bs term "Islamo-Fascist Conspiracy".

Does anyone know who the owners of Yahoo are? If Rupert Murdoch is involved then I think my point is not only valid, but paramount

While I would love to get into what Hookah was generally used for, I would be violating our own forum rules. I will say that accusations such as this, without thorough research...simply is what causes so much trouble in our world.

[ZenSilk]

Close minded people are such fuckers. What's wrong with a little culture in your all-white yuppie suburbs family life you fucking bitches?!?! It's ok though, if worse comes to worse, you can buy a hookah at a headshop or the internet, and then when Mr. Pig comes up to give you an earful, you keep smoking your flavor-tastic TOBACCO.

Actually, from what i have seen, most everbody on this site is ANTI-DRUG.

[Sonthert]

Nice thread. Fresh stuff.

First off, Yahoo is basically saying "Because the majority of people are ignorant, we are going to be racist...even though we know better." Its even worse than just saying "They're for drug use." They're doing it because people are ignorant...and they're admitting their spinelessness. Ironically, they think they are making an unassailable point..."Its people's perceptions...not ours." which is the cornerstone of ignorance and racism. People used to discriminate against black people...some people because they believed it was the right thing to do, but other people because it was other people's perceptions. Yahoo is appropriately named...like some backwater bumpkin who dropped out of the fifth grade...yielding to the ignorance of other people...they would probably stop selling stuff to Arabs if they could, because the American public's perception is that arabs are dangerous.

Jason, I can see your frustration, but they do have a right to determine who advertises there...right? My philosophy is...we're not big enough to fight the big powers yet...

This is real common...companies and politicians take turns pissing on each other until one of them relents and gives the other what they want. Given time, you and I will walk up to Yahoo and they will say "Those old perceptions are gone...we can let you advertise again..." And we can tell them to go fuck a porcupine. They have nothing to lose, they figure...they may think we will disappear and then they don't have to worry about it. Or we will get into a position of power and then they will be able to renegotiate the point.

In other words, they suck. Ignore them.

[mushrat]

Nice thread. Fresh stuff.

First off, Yahoo is basically saying "Because the majority of people are ignorant, we are going to be racist...even though we know better." Its even worse than just saying "They're for drug use." They're doing it because people are ignorant...and they're admitting their spinelessness. Ironically, they think they are making an unassailable point..."Its people's perceptions...not ours." which is the cornerstone of ignorance and racism. People used to discriminate against black people...some people because they believed it was the right thing to do, but other people because it was other people's perceptions. Yahoo is appropriately named...like some backwater bumpkin who dropped out of the fifth grade...yielding to the ignorance of other people...they would probably stop selling stuff to Arabs if they could, because the American public's perception is that arabs are dangerous.

Jason, I can see your frustration, but they do have a right to determine who advertises there...right? My philosophy is...we're not big enough to fight the big powers yet...

This is real common...companies and politicians take turns pissing on each other until one of them relents and gives the other what they want. Given time, you and I will walk up to Yahoo and they will say "Those old perceptions are gone...we can let you advertise again..." And we can tell them to go fuck a porcupine. They have nothing to lose, they figure...they may think we will disappear and then they don't have to worry about it. Or we will get into a position of power and then they will be able to renegotiate the point.

In other words, they suck. Ignore them.

Well said!

[former vendor 2]

Nice thread. Fresh stuff.

First off, Yahoo is basically saying "Because the majority of people are ignorant, we are going to be racist...even though we know better." Its even worse than just saying "They're for drug use." They're doing it because people are ignorant...and they're admitting their spinelessness. Ironically, they think they are making an unassailable point..."Its people's perceptions...not ours." which is the cornerstone of ignorance and racism. People used to discriminate against black people...some people because they believed it was the right thing to do, but other people because it was other people's perceptions. Yahoo is appropriately named...like some backwater bumpkin who dropped out of the fifth grade...yielding to the ignorance of other people...they would probably stop selling stuff to Arabs if they could, because the American public's perception is that arabs are dangerous.

Jason, I can see your frustration, but they do have a right to determine who advertises there...right? My philosophy is...we're not big enough to fight the big powers yet...

This is real common...companies and politicians take turns pissing on each other until one of them relents and gives the other what they want. Given time, you and I will walk up to Yahoo and they will say "Those old perceptions are gone...we can let you advertise again..." And we can tell them to go fuck a porcupine. They have nothing to lose, they figure...they may think we will disappear and then they don't have to worry about it. Or we will get into a position of power and then they will be able to renegotiate the point.

In other words, they suck. Ignore them.

Well said!

Once again I totally agree, well said Sonthert! It's funny because I even said to the Yahoo rep (while laughing out loud at myself at how ridiculous my opinion to them must be) how I realized that my disagreements and objections would be of little to no consequence to a multi-billion company like Yahoo. Strange thing is when I said this she just listened and didn't respond at all; silently saying "yep, you are totally correct".

In fact now that I'm thinking about it, she even said that many of her own friends owned hookahs and all of them just used them for tobacco and nothing more. In the end the thing that just really "gets me" and that I can't seem to "get over" is the fact is Yahoo's reasoning is based on "perception" and not "reality".

You would hope that before a company like Yahoo is going to make a decision like this; that adversely affects thousands of people, that they might ask just 1 of their employees to do some investigation into the industry and learn about it's origins, it's history and it's present state. If they had done this I can't see how they could have come to this decision.